fa001313

Kickstarter price was 1700 CAD for the 10-speed. Which is more like 1300 USD so the discount from retail (1900 USD) is substantial. Backers also get a couple of upgrades (better pedals, discs and chainring).
So it looks like a good discount to me. If the bike ever gets delivered, that is.

downtube

The exchange rate at the time made it under $1200 USD.

Thanks,
Yan

icedmocha 

So would I.

zz_frankz

it's May now, anyone got his/her bike now? wanna share your first hand impression?

jur

Nope, frame welding has not started yet. The welding chamber is there, as are other big pieces of machinery. Progress is slow but steady.

ThorUSA

Hmmm??? I am glad you are so positive about this to actually happen. For all the folks who put a lot of money down I am praying that you are correct and everybody gets his money worth.


But after a year or more of broken promises, what makes you think this is going to happen ? Do you have inside information ? A picture of a machine sitting idle in a warehouse ? Do those pictures clearly indicate that there are bike parts laying around ? He should have a boatload of wheels, and parts ready to be assembled when he finally gets that wonderous machine working ...


Is there a pic of 500 sets of wheels ? 500 saddles, 500 this an that ? He had the money to place orders long time ago .... he should have all the components ready ...


Or is all that money being blown on a machine park and when the machines are actually running there is nothing left to buy parts ?


SO many questions...
thor

tds101 

I was hoping to see positive info about happy backers in this thread,...I guess nothing has happened as of yet.

jur

OK I'll answer as best as possible each of your questions.

Machine in a warehouse: We have pics of the complete and tested welding chamber, having arrived at the factory and being assembled there. We have pics of CNC machine being set up and tested making parts, specifically the head tube. Other machinery not yet arrived.

Parts: The Alfine wheels are there, pics shown of a boatload of them. Other wheels have arrived in Vancouver port a month ago. Not sure where they are now, they had to be transported to Toronto after clearing customs. It's possible they are already there; if so I expect that news in the regular bi-weekly update next Friday. Pics of most other bits have been shown over time; derailers, saddles, handlebars, brake bits, and I don't remember all. Boxes and boxes sitting in the new factory. 1000+ of every part already there. Crankset being assembled with 42 wolftooth rings...

Gibsonsean

...

Are the photos real though! I pray for all the backers that they are... but you know that dirty mouthed @#$%^ was part of the team that faked the moon landing pictures before he dared to enter the bike industry without the council's permission and bought a BMW to tour Mexico with a hottie using everyone's money.

jur

Heh had to read over it twice before I realized you were joking...

Gibsonsean

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are getting there if inevitably behind schedule again. Particularly glad as I went ahead and bought out a backer!

jur

I suggest writing to Helix, explaining that you bought a backer out, and ask for access to the backers dashboard which shows all the stuff. Not only backers have access, but also those who pre-ordered.

Gibsonsean

Cheers Jur. Already in progress. Just waiting for then to create the account and then the veil will be lifted.

MrFlamey

I purchased a Helix through the site a while ago and was able to at least access the backer forums and kinda follow what was going on. It turns out this was in error, as another guy who purchased a bike as a regular customer made a comment that he couldn't see the updates on the buyer portal, which I replied to, saying I also couldn't, and it was probably because we weren't backers, and shortly after I lost access to the forum. Was not annoyed at all about the lack of updates until I was blocked from the backer forum. I can still access the buyer portal, but it only shows what bike I have ordered and nothing else.

Now I have to just wait with no updates or information of any kind, which is total bull****. I mailed Helix before asking to see the backer info, but was just told more information would be forthcoming. Now the only place I can get information is this forum :/ I guess I'll mail them again and see if they will change their mind and give me access to the backer forum again, or I could cancel and buy out a disgruntled backer (and also get upgraded components), or just cancel altogether and get my deposit back... which reminds me, I wonder if they took the remaining part of the deposit, which was supposed to happen this month.

jur

Latest update: All the wheels are now on hand. Welding chamber still being assembled in the factory. Laser cutter to arrive in 4 weeks. Still moving relentlessly ahead. No sign of stalling or moribundity. Is that a word?

Joe Remi

Welding chamber still being assembled, laser cutter in 4 weeks. That dude is completely incompetent.

berlinonaut

Just to be able to judge on YOUR level of competence regarding your judgment: How many folding-bikes did you design again that went into production? And how many bicycle factories did you build up from scratch and on time and in budget?

The Helix-founder and even more the project timeline may have their weaknesses - but at least this guy went out and did something and more and more it seems that it may work out. Moaning while sitting on the sofa lazily and doing nothing is easy - everybody can do it.

BTW: We are still waiting for you to release all the secret information from your employer!

Joe Remi

This is an opinion forum, genius. My opinion is that Helix guy is wasting a lot people's​ time and money.

jur

The welding chamber is a massive and very complicated piece of machinery. The chamber itself isn't just a box, it handles purging of atmospheric gas and replacement with inert gas for welding, it has an ante-chamber for handling and passing frames in and out, it contains a robot welder, and a robot positioner plus the computers and the human-machine interfaces. You don't quickly bolt that together from what you have lying in the garage. The process requires specialised knowledge and expertise, and is being done by a team from the designer of this highly complex piece of machinery. Just delivery alone from the designer's factory to the bike factory took weeks in multiple huge shipping crates. Assembly and commissioning will take a wee bit longer than taping together a cardboard box.

bargainguy

A few years ago, Brompton invested in a computer controlled brazing station, and twasn't cheap - around $2M USD if memory serves. Brompton had found that their skilled brazers still weren't getting the consistency that resulted in the nth degree of precision. Big upfront expense but a long term investment from a different perspective.

Now take that process - computer controlled brazing - and extrapolate that to a ti welding setup. It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to back purge inert gases, but if you don't, you get contaminated welds which will eventually fail. I can only imagine the complexity that goes into a setup like this.

jur

The positioner itself is a tech marvel. It holds the welding jig (which itself holds all the frame section components) while the welding robot does the welding. While a weld is being done, the positioner moves the welding jig such that the weld pool of molten metal stays horizontal until it solidifies. Combine this with the inert atmosphere, laser-cut tubes, and basically you get the most perfect welds that are possible.

MrFlamey

Thanks for the update, Jur. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on this forum to find out what's going on for now.

jur

The Helix guy makes a bit of a fuss about "backers' experience". He reckons they get the special info, pics etc. But he also requires backers not to share that info. I am giving a watered down version of what we get to avoid getting sensured.

Gibsonsean

Fair play to my mind since backers financed establishment of the company to a degree.

On the portal as a backer now. Looks like thinks are really coming together.

Gibsonsean

Yeah Belinonaut, opinions only. No smart-arse informed, reasoned or considered arguments allowed.

Here's a sniff of mine...

Having seen the updates now, even more confident in delivery - looking really good.

What is evident is that Helix have seized the opportunity presented by the level of Kickstarter investment to set the company up for the future both in terms of the product design and their production capability rather than simply fulfilling orders based on the initial design as quickly as possible and evolving more organically thereafter.

I would guess that this has probably happened incrementally as a number of smaller decisions informed by individual considerations and the owner's nature as a designer, rather than strategically - but that is just pure conjecture. The net result for backers is what appears to be an improved product with upwards of 18 months delay.

Can understand why some backers might be unhappy with this if they were setting out to buy a folding bike for a near term need. Kickstarter projects aren't the best if that is your expectation - it is after all a start-up crowd funding platform, not a product marketplace.

Indeed, anecdotally, many backers seem OK with the trade off and the main frustration has been poor comma and expectation management.

Either way don't see that money has been wasted and speculation time is people's own to burn.

What is interesting is that the angriest and most negative opinions appear to come from those who are not backers and have no stake whatsoever. What could explain this? Opinions welcome.