Helix Update?
#626
Senior Member
As a non-backer, I've been following this thread from a distance. You have amply demonstrated your skepticism regarding Helix by this point, as attested by dozens of posts from you expressing this viewpoint over and over again. I, too, share a bit of your skepticism and hope that everything works out for the backers. But you have reached--surpassed--a point of adding no useful information to the conversation. All that I see from you is repetitive vitriol.
#627
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The latest update posted tonight promises the test bikes will be finished in the next two weeks, just like all updates posted since September.
I think they are having serious welding problems or their the 5-axis CNC subcontractor is unable to do their job. Either way, things don't look good.
They have gone from an initial plan of building the frame using 6 jigs to the current estimate of 10 jigs. I would guess that the cost of welding the frame is now 50 to 100 percent higher than initially expected, and they still can't make a test frame after 3 months of trying.
Helix's probability of success continues to drop.
I think they are having serious welding problems or their the 5-axis CNC subcontractor is unable to do their job. Either way, things don't look good.
They have gone from an initial plan of building the frame using 6 jigs to the current estimate of 10 jigs. I would guess that the cost of welding the frame is now 50 to 100 percent higher than initially expected, and they still can't make a test frame after 3 months of trying.
Helix's probability of success continues to drop.
#628
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It is a big chance that he collected so much money, much more than the kickstarter goal.
Without this big amount of money, the Helix project would already be stopped because he wouldn't have enough money to set up a manufacturing process like he is doing now.
That said, I also think that the combination of an expensive material, a complex and expensive manufacturing, a complex bike design and a very low price, much lower than the market price for any titanium bike, is too much to be successful.
Without this big amount of money, the Helix project would already be stopped because he wouldn't have enough money to set up a manufacturing process like he is doing now.
That said, I also think that the combination of an expensive material, a complex and expensive manufacturing, a complex bike design and a very low price, much lower than the market price for any titanium bike, is too much to be successful.
Last edited by Jipe; 11-25-17 at 03:54 PM.
#629
Full Member
There are nine updates from June to November which have made some variation of that statement. Peter has a bit of a credibility problem, and he isn't helping the problem.
Back in April 2017 Peter estimated that testing and production setup would take two months. The welding chamber arrived over six months ago and Helix has been unable to build a single test frame in that half a year.
I am still hoping to get my Helix, but they have clearly run into major problems, and are unable to talk about what is really going on. For me the lies and false optimism have taken their toll.
#630
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Now that I don't fret about updates and progress, a great load has been lifted off my mind. I didn't fully realize how much impact it had on me.
#631
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Hey Berlinaut, thanks for that bizarre search through everything I've ever said on the internet. I reserve the right to rejoin a thread whenever I damn well please and you can just suck it up. We clear? Good.
#632
Full Member
It will be an interesting bike if they ever manage to build one.
#633
Senior Member
"Much lower than market price" is what I never understood about this project. If he wanted to sell it cheap, why not focus on the appeal of a compact fold with 24" wheels and make it out of steel or aluminum? He seems to have fallen in love with titanium - a not particularly popular material these days - and decided he could sell it at a steel/aluminum price. That would have been hard to do with a non-folding bike!
#634
Senior Member
It is a big chance that he collected so much money, much more than the kickstarter goal.
Without this big amount of money, the Helix project would already be stopped because he wouldn't have enough money to set up a manufacturing process like he is doing now.
That said, I also think that the combination of an expensive material, a complex and expensive manufacturing, a complex bike design and a very low price, much lower than the market price for any titanium bike, is too much to be successful.
Without this big amount of money, the Helix project would already be stopped because he wouldn't have enough money to set up a manufacturing process like he is doing now.
That said, I also think that the combination of an expensive material, a complex and expensive manufacturing, a complex bike design and a very low price, much lower than the market price for any titanium bike, is too much to be successful.
#635
Senior Member
Back in April 2017 Peter estimated that testing and production setup would take two months. The welding chamber arrived over six months ago and Helix has been unable to build a single test frame in that half a year.
I am still hoping to get my Helix, but they have clearly run into major problems, and are unable to talk about what is really going on. For me the lies and false optimism have taken their toll.
He's been posting updates, but it looks like he hasn't been posting the whole picture either.
As far as I read from the last updates here, and some random ones on the web, it will be lucky if the first deliveries make Spring '18.
( This is my own conjuncture to be clear, from what I understand of the manufacturing / delivery processes involved and timelines they entail, nobody else has mentioned anything on estimates of timeline.)
#636
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About the choice of titanium : I am pretty sure that this choice is a pure marketing choice, titanium bike have a kind of magic that no other material has, a big part of the communication during the kickstarter campaign was around titanium. The big amount of backers comes from this choice.
The only other choice that could attract as many people would be stainless steel like used for Moulton stainless steel bikes but the stainless steel tubes from Columbus and Reynolds are very expensive, as expensive as high end titanium tubes, and it is not possible to offer a bike at the price of Helix using this king of steel.
#637
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From the last update I saw 2 weeks ago, the message was that all welding development and problem solving was now over, and they were just awaiting the CNC bits.
#638
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This week there are no excuses or explanations. They have been working hard, it's coming together, and the test bikes will be shown in two weeks.
Words vary somewhat from the other 8 times Peter assured us test bikes would be done in two weeks.
#639
Senior Member
Since Boutakis seems to have time to scold backers about posting negative comments here, maybe he could post himself with a real explanation of what is going on with this bike, and how he sees this ending. This game of sending the same "in two weeks" update every two weeks is ridiculous.
#640
Senior Member
The only other choice that could attract as many people would be stainless steel like used for Moulton stainless steel bikes but the stainless steel tubes from Columbus and Reynolds are very expensive, as expensive as high end titanium tubes, and it is not possible to offer a bike at the price of Helix using this king of steel.
Reynolds 931 and equivalent stainless tubes from Taiwan are not that expensive. Close to Titanium prices but way less finicky to fabricate comparatively and there are factories in Taiwan that can build them very well.
It was more than just a simple "factory-cannot-build-to-a-price" issue. Because if it was, then his initial KS costs estimates were plucked out of the sky for starters. Also, there was a Ti fabrication factory based in BC, Canada, which was mentioned originally.
To the best of my knowledge, that would be Everti. Which seemed to have dropped off the map a few years ago. I really don't know of any other Ti bike factories based in that part of the world. Brodie doesn't build their own stuff, or at least not everything.
Unless of course he knows less about the bike industry than I do. Which is unlikely if he was to spend that kind of effort to build a factory.
If its the 3-phase power supplies needed, then its unlikely either as he wouldn't have solved his welding issues otherwise. As that's needed for TIG / MIG welding equipment too.
Last edited by maxxevv; 11-26-17 at 09:53 PM.
#641
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No, it was the CNC frame parts such as the rear swing arm lock and the dropouts that I meant. The CNC machine was online months ago, but for some specific parts a subcontractor is used, and that's where the delay apparently is. I don't know if that is still the reason for the delay now.
#642
Senior Member
No, it was the CNC frame parts such as the rear swing arm lock and the dropouts that I meant. The CNC machine was online months ago, but for some specific parts a subcontractor is used, and that's where the delay apparently is. I don't know if that is still the reason for the delay now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pointing fingers at the information you posted. But it is getting ludicrous to the point of infuriating even as a bystander.
#643
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The problem with helix (and other folding bike) is that it is not about building a classical road or mountain bike frame but a special frame with many specific parts. Cost estimation and manufacturing of something not standard is much more difficult. Much less companies are willing to do it, it is much more expensive and sub-contractors are taking much bigger risk margins.
There is another kickstarter project which is about a folding bike, Vello Bike+. The people who launched this project already made and sell a folding bike but less sophisticated, the new design needs more specific parts. The bike has an aluminum frame (there is also a titanium version but few backer choose it) and it is manufactured in Taiwan, so not as ambitious as Helix, nevertheless, this project is now also delayed without a clear delivery date.
There is another kickstarter project which is about a folding bike, Vello Bike+. The people who launched this project already made and sell a folding bike but less sophisticated, the new design needs more specific parts. The bike has an aluminum frame (there is also a titanium version but few backer choose it) and it is manufactured in Taiwan, so not as ambitious as Helix, nevertheless, this project is now also delayed without a clear delivery date.
#644
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TWO WEEKS is a mantra that ends up with someone's head exploding.
#645
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Looks like a quick update was posted for the test bike. It's to be shown in the next update. I'd like to see something at the end of the month. Or is this code for TWO WEEKS?
#646
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You mean there was an update inside the regular 2 week schedule? That would be a 1st I think. That surely means the bike or at least the frame is ready.
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#649
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A brief chronology of Helix bicycle test bike schedule estimates…
February 17, 2017
Timeline shows testing is about to start and will be complete by April 1, 2017
March 31, 2017
Timeline shows testing starting in 3rd week in April, finishing in mid-June
May 31, 2017 Helix Update
“Production test bike builds are underway”
July 22, 2017
“…expect to have production level welding completed this week”
August 5, 2017
“I am expecting to send out the test bike in 2-3 weeks”
October 1, 2017
“In parallel, we are completing the test bike and we are confident that it will be sent out in the next 2-3 weeks.“
October 15, 2017
“The test bike is almost ready”
October 29, 2017
“Unfortunately we need a little more time”
November 11, 2017
“Another week has gone by without a completed test bike”. Actually it was two weeks…
November 24, 2017
“…I have full confidence that we will be able to show you the test bike in the next update”
Winter is about to begin here in the northern hemisphere. Perhaps after hell freezes over a test bike might be completed in just 2-3 more weeks.
#650
Senior Member
Next update will say that "the winter weather and the holiday season has befallen the factory" and all work has stopped till the New Year comes and gets around... ... ??