Which bike do you consider "The Holy Grail"?
01-25-10, 06:13 PM
#226
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Mango...I'm not really a Colnago guy (perhaps that will change when my Master Olympic is built) so I'd do that deal in a second. I find Colnagos gaudy...the Casati is classic.
01-25-10, 07:13 PM
#228
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Mike... Finding another Competition would probably be akin to Kane's Rosebud as I presently have bikes that are far better but my Comp was my first real bike, one that I worked really hard to get, rode the hell out of, and what introduced me to road riding.
She was a pretty hot first date.
She was a pretty hot first date.
01-25-10, 07:14 PM
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Agreed, gaudy they are in some cases. I prefer to call my 1999 "bright" to those who notice these things. My Saronni frame though is closer to "classic" versus iridescent. Like 'em both a great deal, although not everyone's fav's, that's for sure. Heck, I even talked to a guy at the shop on Saturday that said a Master Extra Light is a "grail" bike. Now about that Casati.
01-26-10, 08:47 PM
#230
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My holy grail bikes aren't necessarily unobtainable, just rare enough to make them difficult for me to find yet possible that I might.
I'd like a Panasonic DX-6000. Mainly because I have a Panasonic Sport that I love to death, and I figure if their entry level bike is this great, their top-of-the-line model must be really something special.
The other would be a 1978 Cycle Pro Macho. I had one as my first "good" BMX bike when I was in 6th grade in 1980. It wasn't a high-end bike back then, but it was a step above the department store bikes I had previously owned. It was a bit heavy but it was my pride and joy. I owned it for a little less than a year when it got stolen. I'd love to have another just for nostalgia purposes and to give my son a piece of history to ride.
I'd like a Panasonic DX-6000. Mainly because I have a Panasonic Sport that I love to death, and I figure if their entry level bike is this great, their top-of-the-line model must be really something special.
The other would be a 1978 Cycle Pro Macho. I had one as my first "good" BMX bike when I was in 6th grade in 1980. It wasn't a high-end bike back then, but it was a step above the department store bikes I had previously owned. It was a bit heavy but it was my pride and joy. I owned it for a little less than a year when it got stolen. I'd love to have another just for nostalgia purposes and to give my son a piece of history to ride.
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06-18-10, 06:47 PM
#231
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I promised a number of months ago that I would post some photos of some bikes that I had been after for a while. They have now been received and cleaned up somewhat. They are two Cinelli bikes. Both are rather special as neither is an off-the-rack bike, but rather were special builds where Cino Cinelli was directly involved in the design and build specifications. Specifications that are also not what you would say are common-place. To make them all the more interesting is that they share a number of special features and the same basic color scheme.
Cino was known to favor this "dusty rose" color and in an interview by David Herlihy it was reported that the last personal bike owned by Cino was this same color. I find it to be quite a lovely color that is both expressive without being in your face. Cino was also a supporter of radial spoked front wheels using rims that were slightly smaller than standard 700C tubular size. Both of these bikes adopt this slightly smaller wheel size. I was lucky enough to not only find some appropriate sized tires, but top of the notch ones at that. The woman's version has Clement Criterium tires on Fiamme Ergal rims, on Campagnolo Record hubs without the oiler band (they are actually track hubs fitted with a 4-block freewheel!). The Men's frame has silk Hutchinson tubulars fitted to Fiamme red label rims on 1970's vintage Phil Wood hubs. This slightly smaller wheel size permits a frame with mudguards to keep a short wheelbase on the woman's bike and what I consider to be exceedingly aesthetic treatment of the head tube on the small size Men's frame. In fact in most frames of this size, the head tube would feature lugs that come close to touching each other. Cino was also a supporter of longer crank sizes and even though a small frame, the Men's bike features 175 mm cranks, quite unusual for a 1977 bike.
BTW, the woman's bike belonged to Cino's wife
Cino was known to favor this "dusty rose" color and in an interview by David Herlihy it was reported that the last personal bike owned by Cino was this same color. I find it to be quite a lovely color that is both expressive without being in your face. Cino was also a supporter of radial spoked front wheels using rims that were slightly smaller than standard 700C tubular size. Both of these bikes adopt this slightly smaller wheel size. I was lucky enough to not only find some appropriate sized tires, but top of the notch ones at that. The woman's version has Clement Criterium tires on Fiamme Ergal rims, on Campagnolo Record hubs without the oiler band (they are actually track hubs fitted with a 4-block freewheel!). The Men's frame has silk Hutchinson tubulars fitted to Fiamme red label rims on 1970's vintage Phil Wood hubs. This slightly smaller wheel size permits a frame with mudguards to keep a short wheelbase on the woman's bike and what I consider to be exceedingly aesthetic treatment of the head tube on the small size Men's frame. In fact in most frames of this size, the head tube would feature lugs that come close to touching each other. Cino was also a supporter of longer crank sizes and even though a small frame, the Men's bike features 175 mm cranks, quite unusual for a 1977 bike.
BTW, the woman's bike belonged to Cino's wife
06-18-10, 06:57 PM
#232
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Very nice set of bikes. 
The bars on the women's bike are especially cool.
I must admit though, mauve would never be my first choice in color.
The bars on the women's bike are especially cool.
I must admit though, mauve would never be my first choice in color.
06-18-10, 07:59 PM
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My wife was just looking over my shoulder and asked why I never buy her bikes that look like that.
I merely replied, ..... I can't.
Those are beauties.
In reference to CDM's duo.
I merely replied, ..... I can't.
Those are beauties.
In reference to CDM's duo.
Last edited by gomango; 06-18-10 at 08:37 PM.
06-18-10, 08:09 PM
#234
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06-18-10, 08:25 PM
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I would consider Independent Fabrication XS, Laser Cutout Titanium Lugs round Carbon Fiber Tubes! I would sell my children, Litespeed Classic, Orbea Onix and my Cinelli, but keep my Gios. I don't know how it handles, wow it looks like that machine screams let it rip!
Here's a link if interested:
https://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/XS/
Of course my other half will require something of equal value, hmmm maybe a trip to Italy! Have a great day!
Mike
Here's a link if interested:
https://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/XS/
Of course my other half will require something of equal value, hmmm maybe a trip to Italy! Have a great day!
Mike
06-18-10, 08:57 PM
#236
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https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Eve.../2010_pics.htm
You will have to search a bit for it. Lot's of grails there.
06-18-10, 09:01 PM
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06-18-10, 10:12 PM
#238
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Let's see - a few Poguemahoneual Calculations here:
Basic formula P = n +(e/r)
n = 18
e/r calculations:
1951 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist: 3/1 = 3
1961 Schwinn Paramount: 5/4 = 1.25
1970 Raleigh Twenty: 2/0 = 2
1970's (?) unknown English road frame with Rossin decals: 3/0 = 3
1970 Schwinn Paramount: 5/1 = 5
1972 Schwinn Paramount: 5/2 = 2.5
1973 Raleigh Sports DL22L: 1/0 = 1
1974 Raleigh Competition: 4/3 = 1.33
1975 Raleigh Twenty: 2/2 = 1
1979 Peugeot PY10: 5/1 = 5
1979 Rudge (Raleigh) DL-1: 2/1 = 2
1980 Raleigh Sports DL22: 2/0 = 2
1982 Schwinn Superior: 4/4 = 1
1984 Raleigh Competition: 3/1 = 3
1984 Raleigh Super Course: 3/2 =1.5
1989(?) Pinarello Cadore: 4/2 = 2
200(?) Dahon Boardwalk: 1/0 = 1
2005 Schwinn Grey Ghost: 0/0 = 0
Brilliant. P will never equal less than n, yet, if the bike one is looking at is worthless (or if its aura is not compelling enough to fight the relatives), the calculation will tell you not to buy it
This formula should be presented to every newbie who asks "should I buy this bike?" - hard for them to argue with cold, hard, mathematical figures
What I find interesting is that two of my top favorites (the Superior and my beat '61 Paramount) were the least favored by - ahem - certain parties, when they were acquired. On the other hand, my least favorite gaspipers were easily welcomed
-Kurt
Basic formula P = n +(e/r)
n = 18
e/r calculations:
1951 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist: 3/1 = 3
1961 Schwinn Paramount: 5/4 = 1.25
1970 Raleigh Twenty: 2/0 = 2
1970's (?) unknown English road frame with Rossin decals: 3/0 = 3
1970 Schwinn Paramount: 5/1 = 5
1972 Schwinn Paramount: 5/2 = 2.5
1973 Raleigh Sports DL22L: 1/0 = 1
1974 Raleigh Competition: 4/3 = 1.33
1975 Raleigh Twenty: 2/2 = 1
1979 Peugeot PY10: 5/1 = 5
1979 Rudge (Raleigh) DL-1: 2/1 = 2
1980 Raleigh Sports DL22: 2/0 = 2
1982 Schwinn Superior: 4/4 = 1
1984 Raleigh Competition: 3/1 = 3
1984 Raleigh Super Course: 3/2 =1.5
1989(?) Pinarello Cadore: 4/2 = 2
200(?) Dahon Boardwalk: 1/0 = 1
2005 Schwinn Grey Ghost: 0/0 = 0
Brilliant. P will never equal less than n, yet, if the bike one is looking at is worthless (or if its aura is not compelling enough to fight the relatives), the calculation will tell you not to buy it
This formula should be presented to every newbie who asks "should I buy this bike?" - hard for them to argue with cold, hard, mathematical figures
What I find interesting is that two of my top favorites (the Superior and my beat '61 Paramount) were the least favored by - ahem - certain parties, when they were acquired. On the other hand, my least favorite gaspipers were easily welcomed
-Kurt
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Last edited by cudak888; 06-18-10 at 10:16 PM.
06-18-10, 10:23 PM
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Mike... Finding another Competition would probably be akin to Kane's Rosebud as I presently have bikes that are far better but my Comp was my first real bike, one that I worked really hard to get, rode the hell out of, and what introduced me to road riding.
She was a pretty hot first date.
She was a pretty hot first date.
06-18-10, 10:31 PM
#240
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-Kurt
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06-18-10, 11:10 PM
#241
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I promised a number of months ago that I would post some photos of some bikes that I had been after for a while. They have now been received and cleaned up somewhat. They are two Cinelli bikes. Both are rather special as neither is an off-the-rack bike, but rather were special builds where Cino Cinelli was directly involved in the design and build specifications. Specifications that are also not what you would say are common-place. To make them all the more interesting is that they share a number of special features and the same basic color scheme.
Cino was known to favor this "dusty rose" color and in an interview by David Herlihy it was reported that the last personal bike owned by Cino was this same color. I find it to be quite a lovely color that is both expressive without being in your face. Cino was also a supporter of radial spoked front wheels using rims that were slightly smaller than standard 700C tubular size. Both of these bikes adopt this slightly smaller wheel size. I was lucky enough to not only find some appropriate sized tires, but top of the notch ones at that. The woman's version has Clement Criterium tires on Fiamme Ergal rims, on Campagnolo Record hubs without the oiler band (they are actually track hubs fitted with a 4-block freewheel!). The Men's frame has silk Hutchinson tubulars fitted to Fiamme red label rims on 1970's vintage Phil Wood hubs. This slightly smaller wheel size permits a frame with mudguards to keep a short wheelbase on the woman's bike and what I consider to be exceedingly aesthetic treatment of the head tube on the small size Men's frame. In fact in most frames of this size, the head tube would feature lugs that come close to touching each other. Cino was also a supporter of longer crank sizes and even though a small frame, the Men's bike features 175 mm cranks, quite unusual for a 1977 bike.
BTW, the woman's bike belonged to Cino's wife
Cino was known to favor this "dusty rose" color and in an interview by David Herlihy it was reported that the last personal bike owned by Cino was this same color. I find it to be quite a lovely color that is both expressive without being in your face. Cino was also a supporter of radial spoked front wheels using rims that were slightly smaller than standard 700C tubular size. Both of these bikes adopt this slightly smaller wheel size. I was lucky enough to not only find some appropriate sized tires, but top of the notch ones at that. The woman's version has Clement Criterium tires on Fiamme Ergal rims, on Campagnolo Record hubs without the oiler band (they are actually track hubs fitted with a 4-block freewheel!). The Men's frame has silk Hutchinson tubulars fitted to Fiamme red label rims on 1970's vintage Phil Wood hubs. This slightly smaller wheel size permits a frame with mudguards to keep a short wheelbase on the woman's bike and what I consider to be exceedingly aesthetic treatment of the head tube on the small size Men's frame. In fact in most frames of this size, the head tube would feature lugs that come close to touching each other. Cino was also a supporter of longer crank sizes and even though a small frame, the Men's bike features 175 mm cranks, quite unusual for a 1977 bike.
BTW, the woman's bike belonged to Cino's wife
06-19-10, 06:35 AM
#243
Disraeli Gears
Of course "the holy grail" is an analogy; at issue is what's the point of the analogy. If you are looking for the perfect woman, you are going to remain a bachelor. There's an old joke about a man that finds the perfect woman, marries her, and the next day wants to divorce her because he has discovered she has pubic hair.
06-19-10, 09:42 AM
#244
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Mine was a 93/94 Bridgestone RB-1 but I already have two of them so now I want a new Panasonic Team frameset.
11-04-10, 10:03 PM
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This was one of the three bikes I had on display during my seminar at the Philly Bike Expo.
11-05-10, 02:53 AM
#247
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Great-looking bike, CdM. Any close-ups of it? Also, what characteristics distinguish it from Cino's frames?
11-05-10, 04:27 AM
#248
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Hi Citoyen du Monde,
Thankyou very much for showing your Cinelli's they are all beautiful. I especially appreciated the accompanying information and the links to the Cinelli family. I don't think there is another bike that I would rather have than a real Cinelli. Yours are real dream bikes on another level again.
Thanks so much,
Gary.
Thankyou very much for showing your Cinelli's they are all beautiful. I especially appreciated the accompanying information and the links to the Cinelli family. I don't think there is another bike that I would rather have than a real Cinelli. Yours are real dream bikes on another level again.
Thanks so much,
Gary.
11-05-10, 05:10 PM
#249
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It's even more impressive in person! The filing of the lugs is incredible and the way it was restored...WOW. I saw this bike a few months ago, but I didn't even recognize it as the same machine after the cleaning.
