Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#3302
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
You only need one. The right side. The left doesn't do anything. Also, set the wheel with the bolts FIRST then tighten the tensioner. This is the best way. Don't try to set the chain tension with the chain tensioner (yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of that statement ) The tensioner is designed to KEEP the chain from pulling the wheel forward by holding the wheel axle in place. It's not for pulling the axle into place as you set the wheel with the bolt or nut.
The Paul hubs are nice, but allen bolts are not good for this reason.
There exist dropouts that can handle the strongest standing starts with no chain tensioners. Titanium dropouts (like on the TK1 and Tiemeyer) can do that.
#3303
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Awesome thanks for the help. I don't change wheels/cogs much at the moment, so chain tensioner shouldn't be too much of a headache. But I will try to get different wheels as I progress and change gear more.
#3304
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485
Bikes: A little of each
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
2 Posts
Unfortunately, the TK1 doesn't fall under this category. My bike will be at felt for over a month for them to bond in new Ti inserts since mine got completely crushed after a season and a half of wheel changes. And they're not warrantying it either, since I didn't use the tensioners.
#3305
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Unfortunately, the TK1 doesn't fall under this category. My bike will be at felt for over a month for them to bond in new Ti inserts since mine got completely crushed after a season and a half of wheel changes. And they're not warrantying it either, since I didn't use the tensioners.
But, I guess you are making my point the Ti allows the wheel nuts to bite and grip. But, I guess they get chewed up.
Tiemeyer was ahead of his time with solid Ti, user-replaceable dropouts.
#3306
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Unfortunately, the TK1 doesn't fall under this category. My bike will be at felt for over a month for them to bond in new Ti inserts since mine got completely crushed after a season and a half of wheel changes. And they're not warrantying it either, since I didn't use the tensioners.
Inserts make a lot of sense; non-user replaceable consumable parts, not so much.
#3307
aka mattio
When I switched bikes, getting one with steel inserts was a priority. It's been 3 seasons and I haven't replaced them - but it's nice peace of mind.
#3308
Senior Member
You only need one. The right side. The left doesn't do anything. Also, set the wheel with the bolts FIRST then tighten the tensioner. This is the best way. Don't try to set the chain tension with the chain tensioner (yes, I'm fully aware of the irony of that statement ) The tensioner is designed to KEEP the chain from pulling the wheel forward by holding the wheel axle in place. It's not for pulling the axle into place.
#3309
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485
Bikes: A little of each
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
2 Posts
#3310
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They didn't get chewed up. They got completely crushed, which meant that my dropout spacing was much less than 10mm and I couldn't insert my wheels into the frame anymore. I asked a felt engineer about it and he said the inserts are designed very soft, so you have to use really low torque with them combined with the tensioners. When I asked him what the torque spec was, he just said "as little as possible". It'd be nice if they mentioned that when you bought the $4000 frameset.
#3311
Senior Member
I feel like large sprinters are people who should use chain tensioners as a matter of course, though I know plenty of people object to them (they can be fussy). But if you are big and strong and you don't use tensioners, you need to tighten the **** out of that rear axle, or it will move. This leads necessarily to mashed track ends, expensive repairs, and bummers. I've got one of those Dolan DF3's that everybody complains have faulty track ends (they spread). Well, the bike is almost ten years old now and the track ends are in fine shape.
If you are not large or at least medium, and you are not doing a whole lot of maximal standing starts, you probably don't need them. But I can't tell you how many pulled wheels I've seen in starts over the years. If there's a known fix, why not just use it?
If you are not large or at least medium, and you are not doing a whole lot of maximal standing starts, you probably don't need them. But I can't tell you how many pulled wheels I've seen in starts over the years. If there's a known fix, why not just use it?
#3312
aka mattio
i've also seen small people pull wheels routinely, but the common thread with those tend to be the wheels (cane creeks - very hard to tighten properly).
#3313
Senior Member
Interesting you had issues Koogar. I had an 08 Fuji Track Pro and had zero issues for the 5 years I owned it.
#3314
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wrexham, UK
Posts: 90
Bikes: Cannondale Caad8, Claud Butler Roubaix, Raleigh Equipe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Anyone used the beginner session program on UpUpUp I.e.
Day Exercise reps
Monday Squat 3 x 5
Press 3 x 5
Power Clean 3 x 4
Thursday Squat 3 x 5
Benchpress 3 x 5
Deadlift 1 x 5
Chinups 3 x 5
Only just getting into track sprinting, so looking to get initial gains
Day Exercise reps
Monday Squat 3 x 5
Press 3 x 5
Power Clean 3 x 4
Thursday Squat 3 x 5
Benchpress 3 x 5
Deadlift 1 x 5
Chinups 3 x 5
Only just getting into track sprinting, so looking to get initial gains
#3315
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Really, though.
TC
#3316
Lapped 3x
Depends on where your strengths and weaknesses lie. If you are already strong and powerful, and have speed on the road but not the track, then more riding is in store and you can ignore the weights. If you're abilities on road and track are similar, never lifted before, and you think you're going to stick with tracksprinting, then a basic program is good to start now so that the gains in the gym kick in with the increased skill on the track. I would just learn the sprinting side of track riding first. You'll make up quite a bit of speed in the first 6-12 months, then the weights will contribute to more speed increases if you're training right.
#3317
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 740
Bikes: T1, S2, P3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They didn't get chewed up. They got completely crushed, which meant that my dropout spacing was much less than 10mm and I couldn't insert my wheels into the frame anymore. I asked a felt engineer about it and he said the inserts are designed very soft, so you have to use really low torque with them combined with the tensioners. When I asked him what the torque spec was, he just said "as little as possible". It'd be nice if they mentioned that when you bought the $4000 frameset.
#3318
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I bought a super duper NJS tensioner for alloy frames (i.e., thick dropouts) once long ago, but it didn't fit my Fuji. Before I got around to filing stuff down, finding another one, or wasting another $30, the wheel stopped slipping. But it did start walking forward if tightened at a certain spot in the dropouts. I'd turn the question around and ask: if better dropout designs exist, why don't all frame manufacturers use them?
Don't look back and be very grateful! The dropout design from my pictures is ubiquitous in the market and to me a sure sign of cutting corners. Others have had the same problems I've experienced.
Don't look back and be very grateful! The dropout design from my pictures is ubiquitous in the market and to me a sure sign of cutting corners. Others have had the same problems I've experienced.
#3319
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Also, the crappy track ends work for most riders. So, why re-engineer something for the small percentage of the riders who will have problems pulling wheels? "Just tell 'em to use a chain tensioner." Boom. "Problem solved". Which is a shame.
The problem is that that small percentage of the market is like large percentage of the competitors (sprinters). So, if they are looking to make a bike that is designed for competition, then they should take dropouts very seriously. This is why some of the high end comp bikes all have unique dropout designs (BT, LOOK 496/L96, TK1, Tiemeyer), but most do not.
It's like the bike manufacturers simply don't want to bother with it. They would rather a few people deal with slipping dropouts than re-engineer them.
Let's look at this in terms of another sport. Basketball.
If you are a shoe company that makes basketball shoes, you will definitely have the standard sizes (7-12). You are covering most of the casual shoe market. Very few people wear sizes 13, 14, 15+, etc... But, guess who does? competitive basketball players. So, if you want those guys to wear your shoes, then you will have to make them in larger sizes.
If bike manufacturers want sprinters to ride their bikes, then they can't have slipping dropouts, seatposts, seat binders, etc...
As petereps mentions above, there is a huge loss of confidence in one's equipment when these things happen. It's really difficult to give 100% on an effort of your equipment has failed in the recent past. You consciously or subconsciously hold back some.
#3320
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wrexham, UK
Posts: 90
Bikes: Cannondale Caad8, Claud Butler Roubaix, Raleigh Equipe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, that's just the gym session. I'm also doing a HIIT session on a Tuesday and a cycle Saturday or Sunday too. Hard to get to the velodrome at the moment, so just fitting that in where I can
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
#3321
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485
Bikes: A little of each
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
2 Posts
Yes, that's just the gym session. I'm also doing a HIIT session on a Tuesday and a cycle Saturday or Sunday too. Hard to get to the velodrome at the moment, so just fitting that in where I can
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
#3322
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, that's just the gym session. I'm also doing a HIIT session on a Tuesday and a cycle Saturday or Sunday too. Hard to get to the velodrome at the moment, so just fitting that in where I can
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
When the weather improves, it'll be cycling Tuesday (Road ride), Track league Thursday, Track Training Sunday. Don't know where I'd fit the gym in around that.
Original question is that is the up!up!up! A good workout routine for beginners?
When you read that "strength is the base for sprinters like aerobic is the base for enduros", realize that you can do adequate strength work on the bike just fine. It might not propel you to the top of the ranks, but riding 4 days a week with no gym time versus riding 2 days a week with gym time is not even a tough call for a beginner.
Even if you're a lifelong roadie, f you've never done track sprinting, you don't know what it means to give 100% on an effort. You don't have your Central Nervous System setup for 135rpm power. You don't have good form in a start or a sprint. You probably don't even know how to grip the bars correctly.
If you focus on training your sprint, you will find much higher quality, longer-lasting, valuable gains in fitness, form, and skill by riding your bicycle in a reasonably specific manner rather than picking up heavy things. Gym work is at this point very much extraneous.
TC
#3323
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
Two bike days a week is not enough- even the UpUpUp schedule calls for three, IIRC. You're going to find way more speed/fitness by using all that gym time to instead ride your bike.
When you read that "strength is the base for sprinters like aerobic is the base for enduros", realize that you can do adequate strength work on the bike just fine. It might not propel you to the top of the ranks, but riding 4 days a week with no gym time versus riding 2 days a week with gym time is not even a tough call for a beginner.
Even if you're a lifelong roadie, f you've never done track sprinting, you don't know what it means to give 100% on an effort. You don't have your Central Nervous System setup for 135rpm power. You don't have good form in a start or a sprint. You probably don't even know how to grip the bars correctly.
If you focus on training your sprint, you will find much higher quality, longer-lasting, valuable gains in fitness, form, and skill by riding your bicycle in a reasonably specific manner rather than picking up heavy things. Gym work is at this point very much extraneous.
TC
When you read that "strength is the base for sprinters like aerobic is the base for enduros", realize that you can do adequate strength work on the bike just fine. It might not propel you to the top of the ranks, but riding 4 days a week with no gym time versus riding 2 days a week with gym time is not even a tough call for a beginner.
Even if you're a lifelong roadie, f you've never done track sprinting, you don't know what it means to give 100% on an effort. You don't have your Central Nervous System setup for 135rpm power. You don't have good form in a start or a sprint. You probably don't even know how to grip the bars correctly.
If you focus on training your sprint, you will find much higher quality, longer-lasting, valuable gains in fitness, form, and skill by riding your bicycle in a reasonably specific manner rather than picking up heavy things. Gym work is at this point very much extraneous.
TC
We aren't getting paid for this. So, if he wants to lift 3x/week and ride 2x/week and that gets him out the house 5x/week, then that's GREAT.
Remember, for the rank beginner, DOING ANYTHING 5x/week will make them faster. Anything
#3324
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For a rank beginner, running circles around his house with a backpack full of Cheetos five days a week will make him faster and get him out of the house. That doesn't mean he's doing a good job of training.
He didn't ask for any advice on what might possibly work to make him faster than he is currently; he asked if two days a week on the bike and three in the gym is a good beginning sprinter setup. I think it's not as good as more time on the bike and less in the gym.
TC
He didn't ask for any advice on what might possibly work to make him faster than he is currently; he asked if two days a week on the bike and three in the gym is a good beginning sprinter setup. I think it's not as good as more time on the bike and less in the gym.
TC
#3325
Elitist
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times
in
77 Posts
He didn't ask for any advice on what might possibly work to make him faster than he is currently; he asked if two days a week on the bike and three in the gym is a good beginning sprinter setup. I think it's not as good as more time on the bike and less in the gym.
TC
TC
A few more points:
- This is why I shy away from discussing specific training programs and try to dissuade newbies for asking for them. Asking "What should I do for a training program?" is like asking, "How long is a piece of string?"
- OP needs personal attention from teammates, coach, or a friend who will do more than offer a few paragraphs that might dictate the next 6 months of his/her life.
- Every athlete responds to training plans differently. Even athletes at the world level on the same team may have significantly different training programs.