Dutch City Bikes
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I DON'T consider aluminum an upgrade in a bike frame.... so call me a retro grouch. I ride both and much prefer the ride quality and feel of steel, and yes I can tell the difference. The only advantage to aluminum that I am aware of is that it doesn't rust. That and I can get more money from the scrappers for it.
Aaron
Aaron
edit:
I should add one more thing, i'm all for enjoying a bicycle, but i have issue when the dutch bicycle is better conversation comes around again and again. There is a significant snob component going on here. So, without calling anybody a snob i'll just leave it at that! One doesn't neet a $1500 pashley or whatever to run errands and slamming a $300 bicycle for not being steel... well, whatever. I'm sure it was necessary.
Last edited by electrik; 02-10-11 at 08:06 PM. Reason: one more thing
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Unless you're going off-road, I'd suggest a touring bike. The touring bike does everything a Dutch bike can do, only it's more versatile in varied terrain. Mountain bikes are very, very good for unpaved roads, but on paved roads they pretty much suck, unless you put road tires on them, and even then, if they have have suspension, they still suck.
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Aaron... this is a $300 bicycle for the city. Nobody I know can actually tell the difference between the materials, only at the higher levels when skill and different tubing types come into play does it even make a TINY difference... In fact i bet keeping the proper psi in a tire is a better thing to worry about. And yes, thin walled steel tubing, the kind that gives you a "lively" ride as those artists say rusts out quickly.
edit:
I should add one more thing, i'm all for enjoying a bicycle, but i have issue when the dutch bicycle is better conversation comes around again and again. There is a significant snob component going on here. So, without calling anybody a snob i'll just leave it at that! One doesn't neet a $1500 pashley or whatever to run errands and slamming a $300 bicycle for not being steel... well, whatever. I'm sure it was necessary.
edit:
I should add one more thing, i'm all for enjoying a bicycle, but i have issue when the dutch bicycle is better conversation comes around again and again. There is a significant snob component going on here. So, without calling anybody a snob i'll just leave it at that! One doesn't neet a $1500 pashley or whatever to run errands and slamming a $300 bicycle for not being steel... well, whatever. I'm sure it was necessary.
I agree that not everyone needs a Pashley nor a cheap bike. I cannot fathom why they would want to send a non repairable frame bike to a third world country, which was my understanding of the reason behind the Africa bike.
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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1) Step-thru frame -For easy mount/dismount
2) Rear Coaster brake - Frees up a hand for braking. On a regular bike I hate coaster brakes, but on a dutch bike they make sense. It's safer.
3) IGH
4) Strong enough to carry serious weight on Front/Rear Rack
5) Jacket/Skirt/Chain Guard - Allows rider to ride in all clothing without worry
6) Upright riding position - Safer since it lets people see you and they can see you. Also allows easier mounts/dismounts in snow. Also very comfy
7) Security Features - Integrated lock, plus heavy weight makes it easy to only have to add one lock in order to discourage theft.
8) Built-in fenders - duh
9) Dyno-hub would be nice, but not required.
What bike gives all of that without being expensive? I feel like the rear coaster hub is incredibly important. It allows you to carry something while riding. I know that's not optimal, but I find myself trying to carry something while riding all of the time. I also feel like the geometry makes it safer and appeal to a greater audience. Dutch bikes are the way they are for a reason, they make sense when you think about it. My wife doesn't want a bike with 27 gears, that she'll have to hunch over on. She wants one that she can ride in any clothes, easily start/stop, be comfortable, and safe on. Dutch bikes fit that bill.
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I have seen not one but 3 inexpensive aluminum frame bikes fail shortly after purchase, taking a close look at the fracture it appears that too much heat was applied to the weld area. I have 2 other steel framed cheap bicycles (~$90) that unbelievably crappy welds on them, but are not likely to fail without warning.
I agree that not everyone needs a Pashley nor a cheap bike. I cannot fathom why they would want to send a non repairable frame bike to a third world country, which was my understanding of the reason behind the Africa bike.
Aaron
I agree that not everyone needs a Pashley nor a cheap bike. I cannot fathom why they would want to send a non repairable frame bike to a third world country, which was my understanding of the reason behind the Africa bike.
Aaron
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I agree, BUT what else fulfills my wants.
1) Step-thru frame -For easy mount/dismount
2) Rear Coaster brake - Frees up a hand for braking. On a regular bike I hate coaster brakes, but on a dutch bike they make sense. It's safer.
3) IGH
4) Strong enough to carry serious weight on Front/Rear Rack
5) Jacket/Skirt/Chain Guard - Allows rider to ride in all clothing without worry
6) Upright riding position - Safer since it lets people see you and they can see you. Also allows easier mounts/dismounts in snow. Also very comfy
7) Security Features - Integrated lock, plus heavy weight makes it easy to only have to add one lock in order to discourage theft.
8) Built-in fenders - duh
9) Dyno-hub would be nice, but not required.
What bike gives all of that without being expensive? I feel like the rear coaster hub is incredibly important. It allows you to carry something while riding. I know that's not optimal, but I find myself trying to carry something while riding all of the time. I also feel like the geometry makes it safer and appeal to a greater audience. Dutch bikes are the way they are for a reason, they make sense when you think about it. My wife doesn't want a bike with 27 gears, that she'll have to hunch over on. She wants one that she can ride in any clothes, easily start/stop, be comfortable, and safe on. Dutch bikes fit that bill.
1) Step-thru frame -For easy mount/dismount
2) Rear Coaster brake - Frees up a hand for braking. On a regular bike I hate coaster brakes, but on a dutch bike they make sense. It's safer.
3) IGH
4) Strong enough to carry serious weight on Front/Rear Rack
5) Jacket/Skirt/Chain Guard - Allows rider to ride in all clothing without worry
6) Upright riding position - Safer since it lets people see you and they can see you. Also allows easier mounts/dismounts in snow. Also very comfy
7) Security Features - Integrated lock, plus heavy weight makes it easy to only have to add one lock in order to discourage theft.
8) Built-in fenders - duh
9) Dyno-hub would be nice, but not required.
What bike gives all of that without being expensive? I feel like the rear coaster hub is incredibly important. It allows you to carry something while riding. I know that's not optimal, but I find myself trying to carry something while riding all of the time. I also feel like the geometry makes it safer and appeal to a greater audience. Dutch bikes are the way they are for a reason, they make sense when you think about it. My wife doesn't want a bike with 27 gears, that she'll have to hunch over on. She wants one that she can ride in any clothes, easily start/stop, be comfortable, and safe on. Dutch bikes fit that bill.
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... this is a $300 bicycle for the city. Nobody I know can actually tell the difference between the materials, only at the higher levels when skill and different tubing types come into play does it even make a TINY difference... I should add one more thing, i'm all for enjoying a bicycle, but i have issue when the dutch bicycle is better conversation comes around again and again. There is a significant snob component going on here. So, without calling anybody a snob i'll just leave it at that! One doesn't neet a $1500 pashley or whatever to run errands and slamming a $300 bicycle for not being steel... well, whatever. I'm sure it was necessary.
Dutch bikes fall in that category. My next purchase I am seriously considering for a new bike is a simple one speed genuine Dutch City bike.
Last edited by folder fanatic; 02-15-11 at 10:52 PM.
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I'm sure you realize wants are not necessities ... Yes a "dutch" bicycle fulfills all those, but are you just reading their brochure? I think the Africa bike actually meets some of those criteria(not saying you have to buy one). To a certain extent cycling is as expensive as you want to make it. Just like pcad(haha) or other roadie groms will be going on about how they'd never race on a steel frame or something there is commuter guy going on about how he'd never buy i9 over alfine. IMO, there are significant snob issues going on in both cases.
We live in a slightly hilly (ok pretty hilly at times) area, so we need multiple gears.
I'm not reading the brochure, I just went through in my head all of the things I'd want in a bike. We were watching those "amsterdam rush hour" videos on youtube and I noticed a lot of people were holding things in their hands. That's when I realized that the rear coaster brake made the bike a lot safer. I've had times were I couldn't brake well because I was carrying something and hadn't placed my hand in the right spot. So it makes sense to free up a hand by making the rear brake foot actuated.
I guess the skirt/jacket guard is a want, but I'd hate to get a jacket caught up in the spokes or something. The fenders are nearly a requirement, same with chain guard. A step thru frame makes it easier to carry things. I feel like the step thru combined with high bars and a relaxed seat tube make it easier to ride in the snow (which we get plenty of). Since it's so easy to put a foot down and catch yourself when slipping, snow isn't as big of worry on dutch style bikes.
I guess the biggest "wants" that aren't needs that I listed are the rear wheel lock, and dynohub.
#34
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I'm not reading the brochure, I just went through in my head all of the things I'd want in a bike. We were watching those "amsterdam rush hour" videos on youtube and I noticed a lot of people were holding things in their hands. That's when I realized that the rear coaster brake made the bike a lot safer. I've had times were I couldn't brake well because I was carrying something and hadn't placed my hand in the right spot. So it makes sense to free up a hand by making the rear brake foot actuated.
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#36
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Yeah, that's what I struggle with figuring out what's just a want and what's a practical necessity. If it's not comfy, convenient, safe, and easy to ride my wife won't want to ride it. So even though some things are wants, they turn into needs because if the bike isn't getting ridden, it's a failure.
We live in a slightly hilly (ok pretty hilly at times) area, so we need multiple gears.
I'm not reading the brochure, I just went through in my head all of the things I'd want in a bike. We were watching those "amsterdam rush hour" videos on youtube and I noticed a lot of people were holding things in their hands. That's when I realized that the rear coaster brake made the bike a lot safer. I've had times were I couldn't brake well because I was carrying something and hadn't placed my hand in the right spot. So it makes sense to free up a hand by making the rear brake foot actuated.
I guess the skirt/jacket guard is a want, but I'd hate to get a jacket caught up in the spokes or something. The fenders are nearly a requirement, same with chain guard. A step thru frame makes it easier to carry things. I feel like the step thru combined with high bars and a relaxed seat tube make it easier to ride in the snow (which we get plenty of). Since it's so easy to put a foot down and catch yourself when slipping, snow isn't as big of worry on dutch style bikes.
I guess the biggest "wants" that aren't needs that I listed are the rear wheel lock, and dynohub.
We live in a slightly hilly (ok pretty hilly at times) area, so we need multiple gears.
I'm not reading the brochure, I just went through in my head all of the things I'd want in a bike. We were watching those "amsterdam rush hour" videos on youtube and I noticed a lot of people were holding things in their hands. That's when I realized that the rear coaster brake made the bike a lot safer. I've had times were I couldn't brake well because I was carrying something and hadn't placed my hand in the right spot. So it makes sense to free up a hand by making the rear brake foot actuated.
I guess the skirt/jacket guard is a want, but I'd hate to get a jacket caught up in the spokes or something. The fenders are nearly a requirement, same with chain guard. A step thru frame makes it easier to carry things. I feel like the step thru combined with high bars and a relaxed seat tube make it easier to ride in the snow (which we get plenty of). Since it's so easy to put a foot down and catch yourself when slipping, snow isn't as big of worry on dutch style bikes.
I guess the biggest "wants" that aren't needs that I listed are the rear wheel lock, and dynohub.
A mountain bike style is best when surfaces get sketchy(if you ask me). Holding stuff in your hands seems foreign to me also - it's bag or pannier. I also should warn you that coaster brakes do fad on hills, but i think those bicycle also come with a front brake. The upright style is great for flat areas, but you'll have to stand and pedal to get up hills, due to the stable nature of the dutch style fork the bicycles are a bit "floppy" when going slow. Anyway, just stuff for you to consider... there was another poster who bought
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#37
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Coaster brakes and the gears that go with them are probably okay for a totally flat landscape, but if you're dealing with a lot of hills, that sort of arrangement is just silly, especially if you're planning to carry things in one hand while riding. I can't imagine riding over Phinney Ridge in Seattle on a one or three three speed with coaster brakes, carrying a small bag of groceries in one hand while trying to ride uphill. That's why they make panniers, backpacks, and messenger bags.
I guess I can see how for sometimes we'd like some gears, but for a lot of rides it'd be pretty flat. I guess I just want to have my cake and eat it too. Can't you let me just do that in peace?
#38
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My wife rides an Electra townie with a 3 speed hub. We live in a relatively flat part of the country, she has a rear rack with Wald baskets on it, and we added fenders. It can also pull our trailer, although most of the time when we are going to be hauling stuff, she invites me along . The bike is bright pink, was not very expensive, and she loves it for the type of 2-3mile runs that she does to the library, store or farmers market. Build quality seems not-too-bad to me, and she is very happy with it.
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I was just making conversation, not trying to attack. If you like coaster brakes and they work well for you in your environment, by all means, go ahead with my full blessing. The more bikes there are out there, the better for all of us.
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I know, I was just joking about the "do that in peace bit", tongue in cheek sort of stuff. No worries.
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Might I suggest the Torker Big-T. It is an entry level Dutch style utility bike and the MSRP is around 350.
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Coaster brakes and the gears that go with them are probably okay for a totally flat landscape, but if you're dealing with a lot of hills, that sort of arrangement is just silly, especially if you're planning to carry things in one hand while riding. I can't imagine riding over Phinney Ridge in Seattle on a one or three three speed with coaster brakes, carrying a small bag of groceries in one hand while trying to ride uphill. That's why they make panniers, backpacks, and messenger bags.
Last edited by folder fanatic; 02-21-11 at 12:50 PM.