psy

Well I stand by my original opinion of the tone of the comment, along with his comment about an iPad being too big to listen to music/navigate while on the bike....maybe you should re read that.

And as for all the equipment I listed being compatible with an ultralight touring list, those were a very few examples off the top of my head of things often omitted from said lists, I can add more, like shower shoes, for example.i could go on but why?

The only thing I'm refuting here is that you have all the comforts and with less weight. That is simply not true. A slightly bigger shelter ( a smaller 2 man seems to be a sweet spot)is more comfortable for most people over a long tour. Period.

And that's what the op addressed, the reason ul isn't more popular, and it's because most people like a few more comforts along for the ride. Even for those of us who have done our homework and spent a fair amount of money on higher end gear, weight isn't the only criteria we consider. Comfort and durability rank high on my list as well.

djb

Your comment certainly has truth to it, especially about the perception that deprivation is part and parcel of it.

What this, and other threads have encouraged me to do is to borrow a digital scale for stuff up to 25lbs of so, and go all nerdy gram counter and actually weigh all my various doo dads and mark it all down.
Will be fun to actually see what weighs what and figure out what, if anything is worth changing.
The example of a tent is a good one, my 2 person tent is a very nice spacious place for me and my stuff, I've thought of perhaps getting a1 person tent, but who knows. Will still be nice to compare actual weights of things, but at the same time balance out what extras I will live with for a given bit of extra comfort, like a small travel pillow, bit of bulk but very light. Or a small tripod chair, which can mean a more comfortable back when no picnic tables are around--that sort of stuff, highly personal decisions.

imi

^^^ it's a slippery slidy slope djb! nah, just kidding!

niknak

The problem is you haven't successfully refuted the fact that those people who tour with UL loads are uncomfortable. In fact those UL people keep claiming that they're perfectly comfortable and happy during tours. Some arbitrary thing like minimum shelter size cannot determine whether a certain person will be comfortable.

But if you need a two-man tent and bluetooth speakers and an iPad and a pan to be comfortable, well, that sounds just fine too. Not all of us feel that those items would add comfort. Rather they'd be an added burden.

Squeezebox

There is a balance of day time light as possible comfort, and night time as much car camping as possible. If you keep thinking about it you will find that balance.

May the lightness be upon you!

Buffalo Buff

If they asked a genuine question its one thing, but to condescendingly remark about how someone UL touring probably doesn't have much / any experience actually touring, and isn't able to bring any comforts along....that's not going to get a perfectly polite response from me

Agreed. Even when I'm just going camping, a knife and a firesteel is all I need to get a fire going. Gather some tinder and twigs, setup a teepee, have thicker branches broken down and ready to go, make some wood shavings with the knife, then spark them with the steel. Easy stuff.

Buffalo Buff

I never stated what my longest tour was, or said anything about the tours I did in 2014 or prior.

I never called you a wimp. I said that for me, a pillow is dead weight / space, because I sleep just as soundly on a rolled up jacket. All I said was that I could bring one and still have 15lbs or less of gear, but the only purpose bringing it would serve is so that I could tell people like you that I brought one. It wasn't meant to be an attack on you or anyone else.

Buffalo Buff

An ipad would be more unwieldy to use for navigation while riding at 20mph than a smart phone. I think that's a fairly objective assertion myself.

It would appear to me that you are trying to say that certain people have an invalid gear list because they do not want every comfort you do. You want a pillow and shower shoes? Great! I don't! Could I put together a 15lb gear set that includes them? Without a doubt.

I don't understand your point. We don't want to carry the same things. That doesn't mean I can't have all the comforts you can with less weight. I can carry all the comforts you've listed so far and hit my target weight, but I don't want those things with me. That doesn't invalidate my approach, your approach, or UL touring in general. I fail to see how any of this is not true, and am waiting on you to demonstrate it.

imi

edited: I'm posting too much - in bed with the flu

bikemig 

Get better and you can't post too much on this site.

Off topic, rode through Sweden on a long bike trip once (Finland to Spain). Rained every single day but I loved the country.

imi

Hah! Thanks Bikemig! Yeah, some years we call summer the day it didn't rain here :/

Happy Feet

Just as equally, no one has refuted the fact that everyone else is comfortable either - which begs the question as to why people go to the trouble of being UL.

I really don't care either way but I bet many ask why go to all the extra trouble if you're already comfortable?

Bandera

Here's a pic of my Touring Rig:



Equipped to proceed on a day long ride in challenging terrain to the best of light-weight touring accommodations: a fine old hotel with an excellent chef and a good wine cellar.
We all have our priorities.......Enjoy.

-Bandera

psy

I never said anyone that travels ul is uncomfortable, I said that most people are comfortable with more.

all I ever said was I have things That I like that are not on your ul list. Not that you aren't carrying enough. and yet again another response with a description of how my gear is a burden. Lol

i do both ul tours and more heavily loaded tours, my arguments are purely based
why ultralight touring isn't more popular.

bikemig 

Sweet; I've been thinking of getting a carradice bag as well.

psy

im not invalidating anyone's gear list, I'm invalidating the notion that you can travel ul, and have all the gear and comforts that someone with more gear does. Not that you need it, not that you're wrong for not having it, but just THAT YOU DONT HAVE IT.

And you might want to rethink the shower shoes if you use public showers of any kind..

hueyhoolihan

i like to bring a blow-up but it's not pillow.



i like to read to someone before i turn in... not sure about her weight though. says 200 grams, but. you know women, they always lie about their weight.

BTW, that's not really me on the left. i'm not that good looking.

bmike

Yeah, not carrying the same stuff as someone else usually means 'that you don't have it'

What's your point? Someone traveling UL will very likely have all they need to be sheltered from the weather, stay warm, stay hydrated and whatever else they want to do... But they may or may not carry the same gear as someone who was traveling with a heavier load.

UL and L is a mindset and a method as much it is about carrying specific things.

nun

I have shower shoes....all I seem to be missing so far is an extra cooking pan, of course your opinion is right for you.....but it is wrong for me and many others. I have all the comforts with 20lbs of gear....I even have an umbrella. The question is at what weight do you have everything to be comfortable? for you that might be 40lbs because you want a 2 man tent and have a 3 lb sleeping bag when I can do it at 20lbs because I use a lighter tent and sleeping bag.

Lt Stonez

But how many Litre do you need to fit it all? 25?40L?

Bandera

They are extremely functional and time tested, very good kit.

Although I've done my share of fully loaded touring over the years the British club rider's model of the last century has more appeal to me now.
Carrying enough kit and no more for a brisk self supported ride on secondary roads in interesting terrain with a good meal and comfortable accommodations in a pub/hotel at the end of the day is how I "tour" now.

It is good to know the terrain and the Inn-keeper/Chef from repeated visits in the Spring and Fall and to arrange for a party of friends to book accommodations for the weekend as well.
Why have all the fun by yourself?

-Bandera

nun

Around 31 liters. The Carradice Camper is 23 liters and the Ortlieb handlebar bag is 8 liters. Half of the handlebar bag is usually full of food.

nun

Yep I like doing that too, I'll stop at an inn or motel if it's convenient, but I also enjoy camping and often end up places where it's necessary.

bikemig 

To my mind, that's the real question as well. If you're running revelate bags, for example, you're talking 14 liters in the rear and 18 or so up front with a large roll. So call it 32 liters plus a bit more if running a frame bag. You can add a bit more capacity with various bags that attach to the fork. My guess is that 40 liters and some change is about the max you are going to get.

There's a huge advantage to going with just soft bags which is you save the not inconsiderable weight of the racks. But the flip side is that you are probably limited to around 40 liters and some change of total capacity.

You can add to the carrying capacity by using a carradice longflap camper which holds 24 liters (10 more liters than the revelate rear bag); that will get you to right around 50 liters total.

Or you could just go with a rear rack and 2 small panniers; that will easily get you 50 liters plus you have the top of the rack if you need it.

To my mind, those are the trade offs you face if you want to go with just soft bags and no racks.

Squeezebox

Well you are just flat out wrong. My 2 oz blow up pillow is more comfortable than a crazy bedroom pillow