Rincewind8

I don't know if it is possible, but how about writing out "Downtube" with a hinge in the middle and half folded? If you go for the logo with the bike in the middle, definitely make the bike more look like a folding bike (unless you are planning on expanding the model range).

downtube

Ironic you tell me this now. My graphics guys gave me one of those options last week and I didn't like it.....maybe I don't get the folding concept yet

Thanks,
Yan

v1nce

Hmm, i am of the less is more school. But my opinions:

I would love a flashy headbadge but an understated font/logo. The Downtube logos as above make me think of flashy (but poor quality) Neon MTB's of the late 80's, no offence! But maybe if the Bike in the logo was a folder and the "beveling" was not neon. At the moment it just looks, very ehm CGI/computer made, but i have no idea how it would actually look on the bike.

I am thinking maybe something like Rivendell. Simple Black outlined letter (but a totally unusal font that everyone will recognize) and an intricate/artfull headbadge. That would do me. But heck i am not the average consumer i think. Even if you spraypainted by hand something all drippy and such i'd probably still buy a Downtube!

Rincewind8

That's funny! I don't have any connection with your graphics guy, though. I didn't even know you have a graphics guy. Here is roughly what I meant:

yangmusa

I'm with V1nce in the "keep it simple" school. I think the existing logo on the bike looks better than any of those suggested above. Simple & straightforward in a good typeface. The suggestions all look like they're trying too hard not to look cheap and succeed in only exactly that... (Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh or anything, but you did want opinions..)

v1nce

Word! I didn't want to say that the old logo is nicer than the proposed sortoff cheap looking ones but i did think it. I hope we are not bumming out your graphics guy. But an amazing bike deserves an awesome logo.

@ Yan

How about this idea:

There is some real skilled Photoshoppers and even Graphic Design guys here (i've seen some amazing work now and then) perhaps you could write out a contest for best logos! That would be fun! Maybe first place could get a Downtube! (or am i talking crazy?). When Bikeforums wrote out a "contest" to make up a BF jersey there were a ton of great entries, and i don't think they even featured prices then. Nothing will get the creative juices flowing of cyclist than a (good) chance at a freebie bike!

The upside for you would be lots of logos and styles to choose from and of course the (winning) logos would become your property and could then be used. I guess the investment would be a little time and the production cost of a Downtube, seems like a pretty sweet deal all around. You could even include polls in the folder as well as other forums to best help you decide which one to choose/which had the most appeal. But this is just an idea, perhaps you want to do things in a different/your manner, that would make total sense too. Good Luck Yan!

downtube

Great idea, however I paid Rafael's ( from this forum ) design firm to design a logo, website, 1" ad for bicycling, and a banner ad. Updates are viewable at https://www.differentperspectiveprodu...m/Clients/yan/
Maybe people could vote on the latest work posted???

Thanks,
Yan

PS. Everyone on this forum has posted so many great ideas. I want to thank you all, keep them coming.......we listen.

v1nce

Cool! Glad to hear you are keeping this job/the cash in the cycling community. From what i have seen Raphael is a swell guy, i am glad he has the job. I checked the logos on the site, they are basically variations of the above logo correct? Or is there some that i have missed?

downtube

They just updated it with basic variations. I was hoping for more professional fonts....but they seem intent on using fun fonts.

Thanks,
Yan

v1nce

Ah, i just checked out the new variations/fonts.

Just some thoughts from my part:

To be honest i am just not 'feelin' any of them. There is something to be said for the 'I can't believe it's Yoghurt' type branding. That is to say, to have a logo or font that is so unusual and maybe 'fun' that it will have distinguishing/retentive power by that very virtue. But i think you can do that and still be classy somehow. I would urge the guys (Raphael?) making those logos to look at bikes like Rivendell or Surly. They have products and branding that is almost on opposite sides of the spectrum but both are very recognizable, simple and suit their product/business philosphy very well. By the way i am not saying this just because of my personal taste, i am actually sortoff in Communications/Marketing myself.

Also it just makes sense to integrate a folder looking frame for a logo on a folder.. That is if you are going to have a picture of a bike on the frame.

Circle A, On One and a few other bikes manufacturers also have some really nice logos/details that give their bikes distinctiveness.

Check this out:

https://www.circleacycles.com/gallery_ss.asp

https://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?mo...position=94:94

Integrating a distinctive D or a logo somewhere into the metal of the Frame or as a sticker is a simple way for people to identify your bike as a Downtube as it gains more acceptance.

Other things to consider would be to add .com to the brandname. In a way it is cheesy in a way it will allow people to check out your site easier and perhaps order bikes if they are wowed by someone whizzing by on a Downtube. It could be on the main logo or somewhere more subdeud/smaller.

I also like it sometimes when manufacturers include a catch phrase somewhere on their product. But only if it rings true, for example:

Surly : FFF: Fatties Fit Fine (their bikes are some of the few that will take almost any size tire so this is true)

Mercian: 'The World Over, Derby, England (Classy and true, their bikes have been around for a while and are sold all over the world albeit in small quantities.)

So thinking of the Downtube. What makes the Downtube unique is it price/quality. So a catchphrase like, Downtube: 'The Worlds' Finest Affordable Folder', or 'Downtube, 'Destroying the Middle men one Bike at a Time' ring true to me. Sure those phrases need work ha ha and some people may hate this kind off thing. But i like it, it lets me know that someone, somewhere put thought, passion and caring into the product i am looking at.

Maybe a combination of what i suggested and Raphael's firm doing the work is possible? The contest could still be held and Raphael could then further refine, implement and proffesionalize the designs. A good design is a start but they still need to be made ready for print, web and possibly rendered in 3 D. Plus you need proofs, transfers and stickers made, well i am sure you have experience with this already.

Just saying, i hope some of this is at least slightly helpfull.

V1nce

LittlePixel

Clears throat... Sorry I missed this thread earlier.

I'm a pro graphic designer of about 10 years. I did my company's logo and site (www.atticmedia.com) plus this one (www.carnglas.com - not the site - just the logo and ipod icon recently), plus heaps more (https://www.littlepixel.info), (www.soundjunction.org.uk), plus oooh lots more. You can look at a pdf here (mainly web stuff but there's a page of logotypes and identities at the back)

Give me a shout if you're interested at all. I'm hoping to increase my freelance work and I'd be very interested in doing stuff for Downtube. I can see where the ideas so far are going but I think like vince says they need more gravity, attention to detail (esp with font choice and individuality)... It needs to shout it's own merits and be recognisable in a busying market...

oldguy52

Well, when I said I liked the bottom one of the two logos before, it was because I was asked which one of the two I liked better. BUT no one asked if I liked them better than the very plain and elegant "DOWNTUBE" that is one the bike already. Actually one of the things that caught my eye was the simplicity of the logo on the bike.

Rik

jasong

Yan::

My critical opinion: what's the idea with the N and T in the wheels? Also, those "lightening" letters really aren't very attractive IMO. Gone are the days of "shadowing" or making stuff look flashy like that. It really makes stuff look cheap and (sorry) Asian to throw such a logo on something. I agree with your comment about more professional fonts. Simplistic with a well thought out underlying meaning are important (but the current Downtube gives nothing individual). The hinged designed posted was cool - also think about the vast variety of media in which you'll need to put this, and the current context of bike logos. Schwinn, Trek, Specialized, Colnago, etc. etc. don't have anything like the ones you put in the sample.

Perhaps you might wish to define why you've also chosen the name and the significance of that. That message/philosophy might be easier to impart and relate to your text if better understood (those that have followed your threads know about your desire to increase efficiency to the population - how is this easily communicatable to the mass population that know 1) nothing of the bike anatomy (what is a downtube?) 2) know nothing of folding bikes).

Don't take me too critical. I often prefer this type of response to a pat on the back and applause because the latter gives me no food for reflection.

v1nce

Some real good ideas here, nice to see so many people contributing/being interested in helping out Downtube.

@ Oldguy. Agreed. I also (as i commented on earlier) like the simplicity of the old Downtube logo. I think with some work and fine tuning (maybe more distinctiveness and making it look a little more 'dear' and a killer headbadge (maybe a somewhat 3D/embossed hinge and/or a Downtube?!) would be one of the many options.

@ Pixel, some real nice (web)logos there, simple, recognizable and easy to reproduce in many formats and variations.

@ Everyone, i agree that constructive critisism (which is different than nay-saying for the sake of it of course) is way more usefull than saying everything is great and not meaning it 100%. Again i am very happy that people are digging Yan's efforts and feel involved in what he is doing because he is letting us get involved. I only wish more companies and products had Yan's thoughts behind them!

@ Yan, i had another idea. How about having some Zen Type dude do a a long tour on a Downtube all the while mantaining a weblog on his experience. It is just another of my silly ideas but i for one would be stoked to read how someone would fare on a tour with the Downtube. It could potentially (if coupled with some promotion or maybe even a press conference in which your philosphy could be explained) generate lots of publicity and revenue for Downtube.

Maybe the story on how Kronan broke into the Dutch Market bigtime is of interest. Personally i thought one of their ways of generating interest for their bike was brilliant. What they did is this:

They Locked up a Brand new Kronan bike in each of the Major Dutch cities (about 8 i think) with a huge number and variety of locks. Like 12 per bike or something. They also put a large sticker on the frame with a simple URL:

KRONAN.NL

Thousands of people a day would walk by and notice this super sturdy unusual looking bike with a ton of locks. They couldn't help but look at it lots and remember the URL and since they could actually look at the bike up close they would quickly get stoked to buy one. Couple all this with massive media attention to this stunt and a slick website that allowed people to have the Kronan delivered quick (at an extremely competitive/cheap introduction price) and their sales where through the roof. It was kindoff like a viral thing, the more Kronan's were seen riding around the more people learned about them and ordered their own. At first it was cheap and website only (no middle men and could not be bought in stores). Then later they lost i think. Prizes rose, shops carried them etc.

So basically for an outlay of about $ 300 per city they had a permanent 3D billboard (the product WAS the advertisement) in each major city and got huge brandname/product recognition. Eventually the bikes did get kindoff trashed but this was many weeks after Kronan had already gotten all the interest they could handle.

Just thought it might be interesting.

downtube

Thanks for your opinion! I am not a big fan of the current design, and appreciate all feedback.

FYI I was biking across the country 10 years ago and thought about running a bike company. I always thought Downtube would be the coolest name to use....maybe I should have called it Bike instead. At least the logo design would be much easier!!!

Thanks,
Yan

downtube

Interesting idea, thanks for the reference. I am thinking about doing a crazy bike tour on a Downtube this summer. Maybe across the US or Europe, anyone interested???

Thanks,
Yan

v1nce

@ Yan, for sure! I am planning just such a (camping) tour with some friends, we start in NL and go around Europe.

We have quite some free and cheap places to stay as well as camping areas.
But we are not very fast at all i must warn you. However if you'd want to ride with us or meet up i would very much be game! Or, if you need a shower and place to sleep in R'dam (and i am not touring myself) you'd be most welcome as well! I am actually doing the Tour on my 7 speed Twenty folder. We already have a blog where we spout of all kinds of ideas about this forthcoming tour, unfortunately it is in Dutch..

downtube

I'd love to join you at least for a few days. When are you going? I finish teaching in early May.

How far is it across Europe? FYI the US is 3300 miles along the north.

Thanks,
Yan

v1nce

The exact date is not set for us yet but it will become clearer over time. We want to go for 1 to 3 weeks and definately in the summer Holiday. As for the span of Europe, beats me, but i have to stress again, us touring Europe may have been a gross overstatement on my part. We may not do more than 70 to 110 Km/day... So we are most unlikely to make it all across Europe. You sure you still want to come ha ha? You were quite an accomplished cyclist correct? I guess i will be following the 'Ken Kifer' school of touring, not going too fast or far but meeting tons of different people and seeying very interesting places.

Check this:

https://www.fortpannerden.nl/
https://www.orkz.net/tiki-view_articles.php

What i can promise is that we will end up/stay over in some of the most fascinating places. I have lots of connections with European squatters and some of those guys live in Beautifull, clean 'free zones', like a huge former Hospital that houses it's own bar, cinemas, etc etc. Or a former World War 2 Fort that has been converted to a beautifull living area. That will be some of the places where we will end up staying overnight though we will do some stealth camping also.

So if you still fancy it, i seriously hope you may ride with us, even if only for a short while though you would be welcome for as long as you like. We could use an old(er) hand and i would love to meet you.

Regards, V1nce

v1nce

@ Yan, hey that Kronan Promotion i spoke of, a picure of it just showed on on these forums,.. lot of co-incidence, check:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=162163

14R 

Hello from Brazil!

I am on vacations but I decided to drop a few lines to bring some light to the subject. I will forward this thread to the person in charge of Yan´s project, and here are some extra info. Please keep the coments coming.

1-The requested logo is for an online store, not for a folding bike. There are several other details about the logo requirements not covered in this thread that Yan and the graphic designers involved are aware of but people from this forum are not. That may explain why there is no folding design mentioned or suggested on/in the logo;

2-other concepts of the logo, focused on the concept and not on the graphics, already were presented but not approved;

3- the current logo (logo, not fonts) was pre-approved but a more aggressive font was requested;

4- Bike stickers, t-shirts or any other merchandise is "too far from now" and the logo concept is mainly for internet use.


Here is one of the bad pictures taken (sorry, the good ones belong to Yan). I still have 3 cities to visit with the Downtube VIII, and I am not sure if I will have internet access or time while there, so Happy new year to all, see you in January.


Rafael






PS: the other pictures are G R E A T.

v1nce

Hey R.,

Thanks very much for the update! It does put things in perspective.
Amazing picture Raphael, it makes the Downtube look like a million bucks! I can't wait to see the others. Nice.

downtube

Tell me more as you find out. I'd love to join for at least a few days.

Thanks,
Yan

bobkat

Well, UPS delivered my new Downtube VIII yesterday and I unpacked it and went for about a 3 mile ride just before dark. I was impressed with the packing and the machine arrived perfectly. I discovered this talk forum last night, so went over the bike today before riding and didn't find anything bent, squished, and only needed a minor adjustment in the rear brake. Away we went again!
I had bought a Trek Navigater folder on sale last fall and had fallen in love with it. Being retired, my wife and I do a fair amount of travelling and although I can take my LWB recumbent when we use the camper, we wanted something compact and foldable to throw in the back of the Prius. I thought the Trek would be perfect, which it is. It's a nice light impressive little bike! However, today my wife and I rode quite a few miles, trading off between the Trek and Downtube, A few impressions :
The downtube would appear to be geared a bit higher than the little Trek. I don't understand gears and all those numbers, but by riding together and comparing our cadence, it seems that the Trek is consistently one gear higher than the downtube. Despite that, both my wife and I got the distinct subjective impression that the downtube climbed a bit BETTER than the Trek. Seemed faster and easier both uphill and downhill with the same effort, although those bikes are not really made for speed. We wondered if somehow the geometry of the handlebar - seat - crankset was better on the Downtube. The roads here in ND today were dry, but had a fair amount of semi freezing slushy spots and we got the impression the 'tube did better on the slippery stuff. At the end of our ride we both decided that if we had a choice we would at this point anyway, take the 'tube rather than "Navigate." A great bike!
Components I know nothing of, but both bikes seemed to shift without difficulty, and blindfolded (not recommended on a busy road) one would have a tough time telling them apart! But the Trek sat in a local bike shop with a price of $650 all summer, although I picked it up for year end $250. The downtube was about $200 and I consider it an excellent buy! Much less expensive and I think at least as good if not probably better than the Trek. There are a lot of little details I could list when comparing the two, but again I think the downtube is a bit better on all counts. Now I'll have to arm wrestle my wife for the "Tube!" Loser gets the Trek!
Now, Yan, I wonder if you ever sell the carrying case for the downtube if you woulodn't mind me contaminating it with the "tinytrek?" Someone did ask that earlier but I never saw an answer. One other project for you, Yan. I would suggest you design an entry level foldable recumbent bike, small enough to throw in the back of a Prius.....Although I love my LWB 'bent, It definitely won't fit. But thanks for the Dorntube. At this time, at least, I'd recommend it to anyone.

af895

bobkat: welcome to the forum.
Yan was kind enough to sell me a DT bag and I use it with my KHS folder: https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...75&postcount=1

Out of curiousity, which Trek folder did you get? I've seen three, differentiated by color and the type of components used.

Rafael: I hadn't commented yet but that photo you posted above of the Downtube on the beach is stunning. Great scene, great lighting. Just WOW.