Cold Setting
08-28-20, 11:39 AM
#76
Senior Member
I have done this on multiple bikes without any issue. Depends on the width of the freewheel/cassette and how many spacers are currently being used to make sure there is chain clearance. I have had wheels with 3mm of axle from the nut showing and others with 5mm.
08-31-20, 02:21 PM
#77
Senior Member
Back in 1989 when Shimano came out with 8S Dura-Ace they built the hub with rounded locknuts that would spread the dropout from 126 to 130 every time you inserted the wheel.
If the same guys who made the most complex "R Tool" system (for derailleur hanger alignment) were fine with just shoving a slightly wider hub into the frame, it's probably going to be just fine. This R Tool system included a fixture to mount to a hub and the R Tool itself had a millimeter scale rule to meet the fixture at the various points of the compass.
The builder I worked for back then made his stock frames at 127mm for a few years until 8S and 130mm became universal. Again, not worried.
Cold setting and alignment are indeed best on a surface table, but if the rest of the frame is in good alignment, resetting a rear triangle by bending and checking with string or the Park gauge and some "H" tools is no problem.
If the same guys who made the most complex "R Tool" system (for derailleur hanger alignment) were fine with just shoving a slightly wider hub into the frame, it's probably going to be just fine. This R Tool system included a fixture to mount to a hub and the R Tool itself had a millimeter scale rule to meet the fixture at the various points of the compass.
The builder I worked for back then made his stock frames at 127mm for a few years until 8S and 130mm became universal. Again, not worried.
Cold setting and alignment are indeed best on a surface table, but if the rest of the frame is in good alignment, resetting a rear triangle by bending and checking with string or the Park gauge and some "H" tools is no problem.
08-31-20, 02:37 PM
#78
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09-03-20, 12:00 PM
#79
Senior Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=busdriver1959;21665354]
This is pretty cool. Thank you for the info.
Of course they do. But they weren't cold set with makeshift tools, imprecise measurements and brute force on my garage floor.
Actually, I bend mine on a form I made myself out of maple, using two old fork blades stuffed inside each other for extra leverage. I typically do this in the attic, not the garage. Only because that’s where the bender is stored.
Actually, I bend mine on a form I made myself out of maple, using two old fork blades stuffed inside each other for extra leverage. I typically do this in the attic, not the garage. Only because that’s where the bender is stored.
09-03-20, 12:01 PM
#80
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Back in 1989 when Shimano came out with 8S Dura-Ace they built the hub with rounded locknuts that would spread the dropout from 126 to 130 every time you inserted the wheel.
If the same guys who made the most complex "R Tool" system (for derailleur hanger alignment) were fine with just shoving a slightly wider hub into the frame, it's probably going to be just fine. This R Tool system included a fixture to mount to a hub and the R Tool itself had a millimeter scale rule to meet the fixture at the various points of the compass.
The builder I worked for back then made his stock frames at 127mm for a few years until 8S and 130mm became universal. Again, not worried.
Cold setting and alignment are indeed best on a surface table, but if the rest of the frame is in good alignment, resetting a rear triangle by bending and checking with string or the Park gauge and some "H" tools is no problem.
If the same guys who made the most complex "R Tool" system (for derailleur hanger alignment) were fine with just shoving a slightly wider hub into the frame, it's probably going to be just fine. This R Tool system included a fixture to mount to a hub and the R Tool itself had a millimeter scale rule to meet the fixture at the various points of the compass.
The builder I worked for back then made his stock frames at 127mm for a few years until 8S and 130mm became universal. Again, not worried.
Cold setting and alignment are indeed best on a surface table, but if the rest of the frame is in good alignment, resetting a rear triangle by bending and checking with string or the Park gauge and some "H" tools is no problem.
09-03-20, 12:02 PM
#81
Senior Member
Thread Starter
09-03-20, 12:11 PM
#82
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for all the feedback and information provided in this thread. I plan on doing this myself since most of the shops are telling me to shove the 130mm rear hub in. I just picked up the Park alignment tool to check on alignment first before I use the rod and nut method to expand the rear stays. I still plan on getting the dropout and hanger alignment done by the shop which seems something that they're willing to do.
09-11-20, 02:26 PM
#83
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Good Afternoon All. Thank you all for the great feedback and information that you have provided. Based on the info, I went ahead and expanded the rear end of the bike successfully to 130.008mm. I did however check the alignment first using Park Tool which showed that the frame was out of alignment by about 5-6mm. After expanding the rear end my alignment was corrected by nearly 5mm. So at the end of the day my alignment is only off by barely a mm. Again appreciate all the info which gave me courage to try this out by myself. I also had a shop check on the drops which was spot on.
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09-11-20, 06:05 PM
#84
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I did my first C&V resto-mod about 6 years ago putting a 130mm 10spd hub into the 126mm spacing of my 1984 Raleigh Racing USA Competition. Shifting is 10spd Dura Ace 7800.
I studied up on cold-setting at the time and decided not to do it. Sure I have to put a smidge of bicep into the dropouts to get the wheel in but really not noticeable. I was more worried about the warnings from people smarter than me on the subject about dropouts and hanger no longer being parallel. Despite the dire predictions from these folks, the bike has had 0 issues in the backend and shifts as flawlessly as you'd expect from DA7800. The even-bigger concern I had was the external cams of the Mavic Ksyrium skewers not getting a good "bite" on my now-slanted dropouts. Never a problem with them moving, and they've seen some wattage!
Suffice it to say, after 6 years and thousands of miles, the fact that I did not cold-set doesn't worry me one bit. If I was dealing with more than 4mm, I'd probably cold-set. I've since built 4 other bikes putting 130 hubs in a 126 frame without cold-setting and no issues whatsoever.
I studied up on cold-setting at the time and decided not to do it. Sure I have to put a smidge of bicep into the dropouts to get the wheel in but really not noticeable. I was more worried about the warnings from people smarter than me on the subject about dropouts and hanger no longer being parallel. Despite the dire predictions from these folks, the bike has had 0 issues in the backend and shifts as flawlessly as you'd expect from DA7800. The even-bigger concern I had was the external cams of the Mavic Ksyrium skewers not getting a good "bite" on my now-slanted dropouts. Never a problem with them moving, and they've seen some wattage!
Suffice it to say, after 6 years and thousands of miles, the fact that I did not cold-set doesn't worry me one bit. If I was dealing with more than 4mm, I'd probably cold-set. I've since built 4 other bikes putting 130 hubs in a 126 frame without cold-setting and no issues whatsoever.
Last edited by plonz; 09-11-20 at 06:09 PM.
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09-11-20, 07:12 PM
#85
on the wheels of steel
I recently coldset a mountain bike frame from 126 to 130. First time doing it, still need to align the dropouts. I'm planning on running a 135 hub in it, but I don't want to spread it much more, and from my test the frame needs only a gentle pull when installing the wheel.
I used the rod and nut method to spread the frame. I guess this steel is very elastic since I had to crank it out something like 165 before any noticeable change occurred!
I also have a new Surly karate monkey which is designed with their "gnot boost" spacing, which means I run a 148 boost hub in a 145 frame, and in theory I could also run a standard mountain 142. Steel is real
I used the rod and nut method to spread the frame. I guess this steel is very elastic since I had to crank it out something like 165 before any noticeable change occurred!
I also have a new Surly karate monkey which is designed with their "gnot boost" spacing, which means I run a 148 boost hub in a 145 frame, and in theory I could also run a standard mountain 142. Steel is real
09-12-20, 11:04 AM
#86
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I recently coldset a mountain bike frame from 126 to 130. First time doing it, still need to align the dropouts. I'm planning on running a 135 hub in it, but I don't want to spread it much more, and from my test the frame needs only a gentle pull when installing the wheel.
I used the rod and nut method to spread the frame. I guess this steel is very elastic since I had to crank it out something like 165 before any noticeable change occurred!
I also have a new Surly karate monkey which is designed with their "gnot boost" spacing, which means I run a 148 boost hub in a 145 frame, and in theory I could also run a standard mountain 142. Steel is real
I used the rod and nut method to spread the frame. I guess this steel is very elastic since I had to crank it out something like 165 before any noticeable change occurred!
I also have a new Surly karate monkey which is designed with their "gnot boost" spacing, which means I run a 148 boost hub in a 145 frame, and in theory I could also run a standard mountain 142. Steel is real
