Lace a Brooks On-The-Cheap?
#1
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
Lace a Brooks On-The-Cheap?
My B15N needs lacing. The leather hole-punch tool is inexpensive, and I can certainly afford some waxed cotton shoelaces to do it up, but have any others had good results with a leather awl? I have one on my Swiss army knife. Also, what diameter of cord would I be better off using? Is 2mm as good as anything else? I would like to note that I have removed the stock row(s) of lacing holes, because they were cracking (not in British slang), and I then beveled the then-shortened skirts.
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
#2
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,933
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked 2,251 Times
in
990 Posts
Paul, a drill will also work to create the holes. This might be the safer way to go since the saddle had cracks earlier. An awl might stress the leather and create additional cracking. The thicker the shoelaces the better.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#3
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 393
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times
in
164 Posts
Definitely get yourself a leather punch for the job…the awl on the SAK is a tool for expedient uses and not a very good one at that. The awls found on true “Harness Jacks” are much better designed but they still are for emergency repairs like a broken strap or belt (originally designed for quick fixes to “tack” when horses were the normal mode of transportation). The awl is to be twisted to cut the hole and it works best on a flat surface (otherwise you have to hold the leather really taught. With your saddle, you will have to hold edge to keep taught while trying to cut hole with awl (same issue with a drill). A leather punch is just so easy to use as you don’t have to keep leather taught and cuts such clean holes it really is the only way to go.
#4
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
"Before"
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
Last edited by 1989Pre; 10-12-23 at 08:04 AM.
#5
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
Markeologist, That is some good perspective and history on the awls. I think I'll by-pass the twisting and gouging.
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
#6
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,933
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked 2,251 Times
in
990 Posts
Any drill-bit will work, metric or SAS. If you don't have a drill and drill bits, check with a neighbor or nearby friend.
If you want to mimic how Brooks drilled their holes, take a look at my B5N (above) and B15 (below). You will notice the holes begin small and progressively are enlarged to the center. Hope this is helpful.
If you want to mimic how Brooks drilled their holes, take a look at my B5N (above) and B15 (below). You will notice the holes begin small and progressively are enlarged to the center. Hope this is helpful.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
#7
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 393
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times
in
164 Posts
You can get a relatively good leather punch for less than $20 which gives you a suite of hole sizes…start small and go next size bigger until you find optimum size. Use a ruler and mark your holes and then punch away…really quick and easy…steering you away from drill as for that you will still need to have leather pulled taught to keep the bit from jumping around and to keep hole cutting straight.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,521
Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 589 Post(s)
Liked 706 Times
in
399 Posts
I also have a B15 that may need this treatment. I really like the 15. Mine however has the alligator cracking on top that I’ve never seen anything work on. One poster had good results grinding it off with a wire wheel brush and then refinishing the more open pore leather to some degree. Like the OP, the beauty is that nothing is lost by trying. I find the 15 more comfortable that the 17 which is possibly due to thinner leather that is sometimes mentioned. My experience with the 17s is hit or miss.
Likes For sd5782:
#9
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,571
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2450 Post(s)
Liked 4,492 Times
in
2,128 Posts
Likes For cudak888:
#10
Along for the ride
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: PNW US
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked 223 Times
in
114 Posts
You've already gotten plenty of good advice but I'll add one more note: since you're not going for originalism anyway, I'd consider spacing the holes out a bit more than they were originally. This will give the old leather a little more material for greater strength, and even with slightly fewer holes you'll still have plenty for adequate lacing. Might get a little better lifespan from your repair.
Likes For retswerb:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 854
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times
in
185 Posts
Drilling leather
Eehh... I would strongly advise not to drill leather. The drill bit just tears a hole rather than punches. I'm assuming you are lacing it as the leather has stretched beyond the maximum adjustment on the nose. I would slacken it completely and pull the rear end of the leather and make new holes, refasten and trim the old rear skirt off. Hoping to rejuvenate an old Brooks in the middle where it is weakest with lacing on old leather is a forlorn quest.
Last edited by Johno59; 10-13-23 at 06:45 AM.
Likes For Johno59:
#12
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
You've already gotten plenty of good advice but I'll add one more note: since you're not going for originalism anyway, I'd consider spacing the holes out a bit more than they were originally. This will give the old leather a little more material for greater strength, and even with slightly fewer holes you'll still have plenty for adequate lacing. Might get a little better lifespan from your repair.
Ready for drilling and lacing
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
Likes For 1989Pre:
#13
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 854
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times
in
185 Posts
If you can tighten more on the nose, slacken off, drill three or four holes on the rear end thru the back end of the metal skirt that rolls back and near vertical beyond the rear rivets (these are on a horizontal plane in your picture). Choose a mark between each of your existing rivets to spread the stress away from the old ones. These will support your original rivets and anchor the leather around the curve and thus support a great deal more weight. Tension up again when all is secure. Use bolts and washers as being around the slope you won't be sitting on them.
Last edited by Johno59; 10-13-23 at 09:58 AM.
Likes For Johno59:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,759
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1982 Post(s)
Liked 2,099 Times
in
1,150 Posts
When we lace a tired brooks (mine is a 2010 Pro) do we lace above or below the rails? And what is the best lacing material?
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
#16
Freewheel Medic
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,933
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked 2,251 Times
in
990 Posts
Lace above the rails.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Likes For pastorbobnlnh:
#17
Senior Member
I have an inexpensive leather punch and would use that. It is fast and cuts clean holes and is easy to use for the side of a saddle. Placement is not as precise as I might like, so I would work out how to do that.
If I were drilling holes in leather, I would use a "brad point bit" (I have a set for woodworking). These have a central point for locating the hole but cut very clean holes because they cut starting at the perimeter (not the center).
If I were drilling holes in leather, I would use a "brad point bit" (I have a set for woodworking). These have a central point for locating the hole but cut very clean holes because they cut starting at the perimeter (not the center).
Likes For Bad Lag:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 854
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times
in
185 Posts
Use a nickel to spread the load
Likes For Johno59:
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 854
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times
in
185 Posts
A metal bridge is better as it doesn't rely on old leather to tighten up the saddle.
All of these Brooks saddle frames were manufactured in the 1930s
Last edited by Johno59; 10-13-23 at 02:22 PM. Reason: senior moment
Likes For Johno59:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,998
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26482 Post(s)
Liked 10,449 Times
in
7,248 Posts
...I have had good results using flat woven shoe laces. I think they might be either woven out of cotton or from some polyester blend.
They last a long time, and they lay flat against the skirts, if you do it carefully. I have a punch, so the holes I'm using are punched.
They last a long time, and they lay flat against the skirts, if you do it carefully. I have a punch, so the holes I'm using are punched.
#21
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 393
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times
in
164 Posts
OK, but I’m more scared of the bolt and rivets on the noses on those saddles than I ever was of my Orange Krates gear selector!
Likes For Markeologist:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 854
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 334 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times
in
185 Posts
Balls of steel
If you file them enough you won't have a problem. However Brooks do sell the copper rivets that are 18mm in diameter for the nose. They smooth the ride for those that have the money but not the bolas de acero.
Likes For Johno59:
#23
Standard Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 4,284
Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 958 Times
in
494 Posts
__________________
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
"In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun. You find the fun, and - SNAP - the job's a game!"
Last edited by 1989Pre; 10-14-23 at 04:54 AM.
Likes For 1989Pre:
Likes For Steel Charlie:
#25
Senior Member
Likes For Bad Lag: