RED "C" ~ Campy or Carlton ?
08-01-11, 08:19 AM
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RED "C" ~ Campy or Carlton ?
Got to thinking after reading Kurt's thread on his Campy derailleur collection. Here's a shot of a NOS Gran Turismo I picked up a while ago, as a paper weight display piece, and a rather poor pic of my friend's mystery frame, which we believe is a Raleigh Grand Sport. (or Super Course) My question is, Are those red "C" bolt caps on the derailleur a Campy logo? Or did Campy brand some Gran Turismos for Raleigh's use. ie: Carlton. Note the exact same bolt head design on the seat post bolt on that frame, if you can see it. I believe I've seen that on other Raleighs as well. A minor mystery, to me, but I'm sure some of the knowledgeable folks here know the answer.
Last edited by rootboy; 08-01-11 at 09:06 AM.
08-01-11, 08:21 AM
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Carlton.
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08-01-11, 08:55 AM
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08-01-11, 09:03 AM
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Weird. If it is Campagnolo, what's with that seat post bolt on the Raleighs? Maybe Campy supplied the seat post bolts to Raleigh too? If it is Carlton, what's with a Carlton branded rear derailleur on a Schwinn? Interesting. Anybody got any pics of the Gran Turismo without these bolt heads? I seem to remember seeing one at some point in the past 40 years. I also think I remember seeing these bolt heads on a Valentino derailleur. Maybe. Thanks all. The plot thickens.
08-01-11, 09:06 AM
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Campy makes (made?) seat binder bolts. The newer (80's>) version are guaranteed to snap upon about their third use.
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08-01-11, 09:08 AM
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Sure, I've got several of the Campy branded binder bolts, circa Nuovo Record, etc. Suppose they made a lower-mid level bolt for Raleigh? It's certainly possible, but sounds kind of odd. I note that Raleigh later used the red "R" binder bolt head.
08-01-11, 09:18 AM
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08-01-11, 09:21 AM
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I wish I could supply a close up pic of the seat binder bolt OFG, but can't. That frame belongs to my buddy, 3K miles away. Somebody else got a pic?
08-01-11, 09:29 AM
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I figured it was a Campy mark. Heck, maybe it's not the same logo at all on the Raleigh bolts. It sure looks the same, however. If I've opened up a meaningless pissin' match, my regrets. Just having fun with this silly minutiae.
08-01-11, 09:31 AM
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OK, so Raleigh sez to Campy, "we'll buy ten thousand derailleurs from you, but you gotta throw in the same amount of binder bolts." 
08-01-11, 12:01 PM
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I'll wager too OFG. That would explain them being the same on Schwinns. Anybody ever see these red bolts or logo on any other piece of Campy gear?
08-01-11, 12:18 PM
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I have the same RD with same "C" on my grungy Atala that I'm working on, so I'd agree it's campy.
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08-01-11, 12:48 PM
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Sorry I didn't respond sooner, OFG, but I was out. Here's a closeup of the '73 Raleigh Carlton Super Course seatpost binder. As I said, I always just figured it was a Carlton mark; Campy never even entered my mind at all. I had a similar vintage Raleigh Sprite with the red "R" bolt head, so I didn't really cogitate much beyond that point. Being a fan of this sort of esoterica, I'd love to know for certain now that the topic has been raised!
Next question: is this the original seatpost binder for the SC?
Next question: is this the original seatpost binder for the SC?
08-01-11, 02:45 PM
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My '73 Gran Sport has what I think to be the original seat binder bolt. It has a nice little red emblem like that. It says "R", not "C". From a distance with your eyes squinted up it might look like "C".
The OP's frame, if it is a Gran Sport as supposed, would not have come in that color during the early 70's, no? Was it repainted or was it an newer model? If newer, I'd guess that Raleigh did not swith to using a "C" for "Carlton" for the later models. But that's just guessing.
The OP's frame, if it is a Gran Sport as supposed, would not have come in that color during the early 70's, no? Was it repainted or was it an newer model? If newer, I'd guess that Raleigh did not swith to using a "C" for "Carlton" for the later models. But that's just guessing.
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08-01-11, 02:53 PM
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Seat binder is surely Campy. If you Anglophiles want to call it 'Carlton", go ahead. Have you ever seen a Carlton branded component? Me neither, not that I look. It is the same red as the Raleigh binders, probably the only red available then.
Cool piece, nonetheless.
Cool piece, nonetheless.
08-01-11, 04:55 PM
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My '73 Gran Sport has what I think to be the original seat binder bolt. It has a nice little red emblem like that. It says "R", not "C". From a distance with your eyes squinted up it might look like "C".
The OP's frame, if it is a Gran Sport as supposed, would not have come in that color during the early 70's, no? Was it repainted or was it an newer model? If newer, I'd guess that Raleigh did not swith to using a "C" for "Carlton" for the later models. But that's just guessing.
The OP's frame, if it is a Gran Sport as supposed, would not have come in that color during the early 70's, no? Was it repainted or was it an newer model? If newer, I'd guess that Raleigh did not swith to using a "C" for "Carlton" for the later models. But that's just guessing.
It's interesting to think Campagnolo would have provided the binder bolts for mid level Raleighs back then. Not sure I've ever held one but I think those red C bolts were quite ubiquitous as I remember. It has a decidedly English look to it , I think. Who knows. Just playin' pocket pool here.