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Track Racing Frames and Complete Bikes

Old 11-25-15, 09:44 AM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post

I find it hard to believe that he had much to do with the decisions that went into this bike.
Based on the excitement I have seen at our track, and even the local bike shops, over the cheap LOOK bike coming out, goes to show people put a lot of faith and expectations based on the letters painted on the downtube and the material of the frame. I guess its easy to trust a name like look or boardman to not cheap out and actually design a bike.
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Old 12-25-15, 10:27 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Does anyone here use the tape? I've never even thought about it.
Sorry about answering 7 years old question.
I personally like tubular tape.
Especially miyata tubular tapes are awesome.
They are narrower than other tubular tapes like tufo tubular tape.
Also I heard that they work great on the carbon wheels.
If you use the miyata tape several times, you will peel out the tape really easily.
I never had problems with the tape.
I tried to take off the types(in 100psi) by pulling really hard, but it was impossible.
You might want to try miyata tubular tape, and they are cheap compare to tufo tape.
If someone is interested in this tape, I can make some videos.
Miyata tubular tyre/tire double-sided adhesive tape (box) - $46.50 : Track Supermarket - NJS/Keirin track/fixed gear bikes, frames, and parts from Japan
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Old 12-26-15, 04:38 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
Sorry about answering 7 years old question.
I personally like tubular tape.
Especially miyata tubular tapes are awesome.
They are narrower than other tubular tapes like tufo tubular tape.
Also I heard that they work great on the carbon wheels.
If you use the miyata tape several times, you will peel out the tape really easily.
I never had problems with the tape.
I tried to take off the types(in 100psi) by pulling really hard, but it was impossible.
You might want to try miyata tubular tape, and they are cheap compare to tufo tape.
If someone is interested in this tape, I can make some videos.
Miyata tubular tyre/tire double-sided adhesive tape (box) - $46.50 : Track Supermarket - NJS/Keirin track/fixed gear bikes, frames, and parts from Japan
GLUE, GLUE, GLUE, GLUE! If you are caught with Tub tape on your wheels at the track, be prepared to not be allowed to ride it until you swap to glued tires or clinchers, as well receiving pissed off looks from the riders present. Tape is no substitute for a proper glue job. When it comes to track wheels, tape is a sign of laziness and inconsideration. Tape cannot fill in the voids of an imperfect rim, nor can it penetrate the base tape of a tire the way a proper glue job can. It's popular in cyclocross, because if your tape peels and you fall, you fall in dirt, and typically the riders are pretty spread out, so you're not likely to take down a whole field. On the track, the potential for injuring yourself and others is MUCH higher. People who use it on the road typically are just weekend pleasure riders who are not stressing their tires much. If you are on the track, or racing on the road, just glue your tires. This has been discussed so many times that I'm surprised it still comes up.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:34 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
GLUE, GLUE, GLUE, GLUE! If you are caught with Tub tape on your wheels at the track, be prepared to not be allowed to ride it until you swap to glued tires or clinchers, as well receiving pissed off looks from the riders present. Tape is no substitute for a proper glue job. When it comes to track wheels, tape is a sign of laziness and inconsideration. Tape cannot fill in the voids of an imperfect rim, nor can it penetrate the base tape of a tire the way a proper glue job can. It's popular in cyclocross, because if your tape peels and you fall, you fall in dirt, and typically the riders are pretty spread out, so you're not likely to take down a whole field. On the track, the potential for injuring yourself and others is MUCH higher. People who use it on the road typically are just weekend pleasure riders who are not stressing their tires much. If you are on the track, or racing on the road, just glue your tires. This has been discussed so many times that I'm surprised it still comes up.
I'm really sorry about discussing again.
I will fix my mistake immediately. Thank you for telling me this.
Can you tell me a good way to glue tubular tires on aluminum rims?
I cannot find any video with aluminum rims.
Thanks
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Old 12-26-15, 06:22 PM
  #255  
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Here is the Park Tool instructions for gluing tubulars - composite or metal rims.
Repair Help Articles - Park Tool
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Old 12-26-15, 07:47 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
I'm really sorry about discussing again.
I will fix my mistake immediately. Thank you for telling me this.
Can you tell me a good way to glue tubular tires on aluminum rims?
I cannot find any video with aluminum rims.
Thanks
Lol, not your fault. There's nothing in any of the Stickies on this. I went ahead and posted it in the Track Tires sticky at the top of the page. If you (or any of the people who are new to track) haven't gone through the stickies at the top of the page, take the time to do so. There is a lot of good info in those threads (hence why they are stickied). We love answering questions here, and look to help anyone with any issues that they may have, but people also have to be willing to help themselves, especially when it's as easy as using the Search function, or something that's in the stickies. We're here to help anyone go from Amateur to Pro, but you'll have to hold your own spoon.
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Old 12-26-15, 10:38 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
GLUE, GLUE, GLUE, GLUE! If you are caught with Tub tape on your wheels at the track, be prepared to not be allowed to ride it until you swap to glued tires or clinchers, as well receiving pissed off looks from the riders present. Tape is no substitute for a proper glue job. When it comes to track wheels, tape is a sign of laziness and inconsideration. Tape cannot fill in the voids of an imperfect rim, nor can it penetrate the base tape of a tire the way a proper glue job can. It's popular in cyclocross, because if your tape peels and you fall, you fall in dirt, and typically the riders are pretty spread out, so you're not likely to take down a whole field. On the track, the potential for injuring yourself and others is MUCH higher. People who use it on the road typically are just weekend pleasure riders who are not stressing their tires much. If you are on the track, or racing on the road, just glue your tires. This has been discussed so many times that I'm surprised it still comes up.
I've never used tape, but I also haven't heard of it being against the rules. I thought you got suspended if you rolled a tire - no matter how it was previously attached. Do officials actually look for something like this?
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Old 12-27-15, 12:33 AM
  #258  
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It's so rare that someone shows up with taped tubs that I think it's one of those things that never really gets talked about or brought up. If you roll a tire, many tracks may suspend you. If you're new, or not local, then I can see suspending a rider. Sometimes it happens, and it can't be predicted, but this is usually if the tire flats before it rolls off. In this instance (tire flatted first), I've seen riders given a pass.

Every track I've been to I've had my tubs inspected by an official/facilitator to check the glue job. FCV, IVBP, Burnaby, Bromont, Calgary, and Edmonton don't allow tape. An official at T-Town told me they don't allow tape as he was inspecting my wheels when I was down there. Mind you, this was all roughly 10 years ago when I was hopping around on the race circuit, so things might have changed since then. I wouldn't allow tape if I was an officail/facilitator or a drome. I've seen more tape malfunctions during what little recreational cross racing that I've taken part in (probably about 10 separate failures in 20 races) vs.glue failures in the thousands of hours I've had on the track.
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Old 12-27-15, 07:49 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
It's so rare that someone shows up with taped tubs that I think it's one of those things that never really gets talked about or brought up. If you roll a tire, many tracks may suspend you. If you're new, or not local, then I can see suspending a rider. Sometimes it happens, and it can't be predicted, but this is usually if the tire flats before it rolls off. In this instance (tire flatted first), I've seen riders given a pass.

Every track I've been to I've had my tubs inspected by an official/facilitator to check the glue job. FCV, IVBP, Burnaby, Bromont, Calgary, and Edmonton don't allow tape. An official at T-Town told me they don't allow tape as he was inspecting my wheels when I was down there. Mind you, this was all roughly 10 years ago when I was hopping around on the race circuit, so things might have changed since then. I wouldn't allow tape if I was an officail/facilitator or a drome. I've seen more tape malfunctions during what little recreational cross racing that I've taken part in (probably about 10 separate failures in 20 races) vs.glue failures in the thousands of hours I've had on the track.
Thanks. I hadn't noticed anyone checking for tape, but my glue jobs are so messy that even a casual glance would confirm that I used glue.
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Old 12-27-15, 04:22 PM
  #260  
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Being a mechanic I really should know this (kids bikes and hybrids seem to rarely have tubulars), but what's the problem with tape? I would assume that its somewhat ubiquitous association with cyclocross would imply that it improves the tire's sticktion to the rim.

Last edited by TrackMonkey7; 12-27-15 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 12-27-15, 05:43 PM
  #261  
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I'll never use it ( I go with what I know works), but there is one guy I know and respect who uses tape on the track without trouble. I'd still recommend anyone new to just glue it.
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Old 12-27-15, 08:02 PM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 View Post
Being a mechanic I really should know this (kids bikes and hybrids seem to rarely have tubulars), but what's the problem with tape? I would assume that its somewhat ubiquitous association with cyclocross would imply that it improves the tire's sticktion to the rim.
It's easy to use, makes little to no mess, and the consequences of a rolled tub in at 15 miles per hour on soft dirt aren't that dire. A 250m track, with a field of 20 moving at 40 miles an hour, and someone rolls a tub? On a long, shallow track, tape may be good enough, but it's still not as good as a proper glue job. On a 250m track or smaller, I would never trust tape under any rider. A shallow 333m or larger, I would trust it under a light rider, but only just.
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Old 12-28-15, 07:49 AM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7 View Post
Being a mechanic I really should know this (kids bikes and hybrids seem to rarely have tubulars), but what's the problem with tape? I would assume that its somewhat ubiquitous association with cyclocross would imply that it improves the tire's sticktion to the rim.
Tape is far from ubiquitous in cross - but, since tubulars are widely used in cross, tape winds up at least being discussed.

The people I know who have used cross tape have laid down a layer of glue on the rim, soaked the basetape in glue, and then put the tubular tape down between.

Worth noting, too, that there are several different types of tubular tape, that they work differently, and some are contraindicated for tires that have a seam down the middle of the basetape.

Once I chatted with Zdenek Stybar's mechanic. I asked about his tubular gluing method; he shrugged and told me, a layer on the rim, a layer on the tire, and put the two together. That approach is good enough for my cross, road, and track wheels - and all still a damn pain to remove from a rim.
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Old 12-28-15, 08:23 AM
  #264  
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The tape method you describe is how I've always heard it done for cross. But it's been at least a few years since I've heard of anyone using tape. I use glue, personally.
I've always done 2 coats of glue on the rim and tape, letting them dry completely between coats, then 1 more on the rim and install the tire with that wet. Maybe I've been wasting glue all this time?
Paul

Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Tape is far from ubiquitous in cross - but, since tubulars are widely used in cross, tape winds up at least being discussed.

The people I know who have used cross tape have laid down a layer of glue on the rim, soaked the basetape in glue, and then put the tubular tape down between.

Worth noting, too, that there are several different types of tubular tape, that they work differently, and some are contraindicated for tires that have a seam down the middle of the basetape.

Once I chatted with Zdenek Stybar's mechanic. I asked about his tubular gluing method; he shrugged and told me, a layer on the rim, a layer on the tire, and put the two together. That approach is good enough for my cross, road, and track wheels - and all still a damn pain to remove from a rim.
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Old 12-28-15, 08:54 AM
  #265  
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I used tubular tape once. The tire stayed attached for about 40 minutes. Don't use tubular tape.

Cyclocross tires should be glued AND taped. Not kidding, even a little. Put three layers of glue on the rim, adding "the belgian tape" (The brand of which is escaping me currently) while the third layer is slimy. Allow two layers to dry on the tire. Put a thin coat over the tape, and get the tire on while it dries. That yields an almost indestructible glue job.


I don't know why track tires would be any different, especially if the consequences are worse.

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Old 12-29-15, 01:03 AM
  #266  
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My impression of why you use tape for cross is the lower pressure the riders are running - when you inflate a tyre, it inflates in every direction - not just up where the tread is, but inflating a tub onto a rim will increase the inward pressure holding the tyre in place. When you are only putting 20 psi (or whatever pressure crossers use) into there, the pressure holding the tyre in place doesn't really contribute a lot to preventing it rolling.
Most tubular tape is a mm or 2 thick, so the combination 'belgian' glue job artificially increased the circumference of the glueing bed - that kind of compensates for the lower pressure by stretching the base tape of the tub onto the rim, to simulate the conditions where it has 120 + psi in there.
I might be wrong, but if I rode cross that's what I'd do.
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Old 12-29-15, 08:25 PM
  #267  
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I've now gone 3 layers tyre and 4 rims for CX after rolling a tyre using 2 tyre 3 rim racing with very low pressure due to very muddy conditions. Touch wood - no more rolled tyres since.
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Old 12-29-15, 08:38 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post

Once I chatted with Zdenek Stybar's mechanic. I asked about his tubular gluing method; he shrugged and told me, a layer on the rim, a layer on the tire, and put the two together. That approach is good enough for my cross, road, and track wheels - and all still a damn pain to remove from a rim.
That's the way I was taught to do it mid 70's. And unless it's REALLY thick, no need to clean it off the rim, just put a fresh layer on at the beginning of the season to be sure.
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Old 12-30-15, 07:15 AM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
I've now gone 3 layers tyre and 4 rims for CX after rolling a tyre using 2 tyre 3 rim racing with very low pressure due to very muddy conditions. Touch wood - no more rolled tyres since.
I use 2 on coats on the tire and 3 on the rim for my wife's cross bike, and for track tires. If I used tubs for cross, I'd definitely add a coat.
BTW, more of the gluing conversation is in the tires thread in the stickies.
Paul
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Old 08-06-16, 06:57 PM
  #270  
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HOY Fiorenzuola .001 2014 Track Frame Set 249.99 / $333USD. Size XL (60cm) only.

I'm not sure how much shipping to the US would be, but that's a great deal.

https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-fior...delivery-modal
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Old 10-19-17, 08:58 PM
  #271  
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Felt has redone their track offerings and they look very attractive. They did this a while back but I don't recall it being mentioned here.

Track - Felt Bicycles

- The TA FRD is the Olympic bike with the left-side-drive cranks. Comes complete with 2 wheel sets, 2 crank sets, lots of chainrings, power meter, travel hard case, etc... Made custom to order like a suit. You submit your measurements (and sign a waiver in case the fit is screwed up, hahaha). $25,999USD
- The TK1 now comes as a complete bike with 808-style wheels, Scattos, and ROTOR cranks and with a normal fork (you can put a normal fork on any TK1). Size 60 offered. Complete only, no frame/fork option. $5000USD
- The TK FRD is like the old TK1 and has the bayonet fork (not to be confused with the TA FRD). I *think* the carbon is different, but not sure. Comes as a frame/fork only. Size 60 offered. $4000USD.
- The TK2 is aluminum, comes in large sizes, compete with Ellipse wheels and SRAM Omnium cranks. $2000 USD
- The TK1 is an entry level offering with solid generic equipment choices. $1000USD


FIVE different track bikes/frames from entry level to Olympic level. Not bad!

Last edited by carleton; 10-19-17 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 10-19-17, 09:44 PM
  #272  
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Are you buying a new bike again??
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Old 10-19-17, 11:01 PM
  #273  
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Felt may be one of the few manufacturers doing better than Ridley. Was recently looking at the carbon Arena to see the differences and effectively they've got bikes for all disciplines.

https://www.ridley-bikes.com/men-bikes/track/
Arena TT is a dedicated pursuit bike
Arena Carbon is an enduro/6 day bike
Arena Alloy/7005 is an all out sprint bike

Aside from the naming, they're entirely different bikes that should cover everybody.
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Old 10-19-17, 11:09 PM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Are you buying a new bike again??
Can't a guy look?

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Old 10-19-17, 11:24 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
Arena Alloy/7005 is an all out sprint bike

Aside from the naming, they're entirely different bikes that should cover everybody.
I would challenge both of those statements.

The Arena Alloy is an entry level all-around bike. Not an all out sprint bike.

This:


is not in the same category as these all out sprint bikes



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