What Are Junk Miles?
08-03-16, 07:18 AM
#51
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It's just wrong that "junk miles" - the actual riding, not the plan - can't perform the same function (recovery for instance). The only thing about the way you ride a "junk mile" that gives it different effects in training, that makes it "junk", is that it isn't one the trainer or plan told you to ride. The rest (no HR zone 3 for example) has no credible basis that I've seen.
Are you familiar with the more recent fad of Polarized Training?
Are you familiar with the more recent fad of Polarized Training?
Training for maximal performance is hard work and most people are not interested in the suffering required to extract their absolute best. It's much easier and more comfortable to ride around at tempo than banging out VO2Max intervals.
08-03-16, 07:30 AM
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Junk miles are commonly referred to as those ridden at a mid level of intensity - too high to be used as recovery but not high enough to elicit a decent training response. They will help, but just won't be optimal for increasing performance.
Training for maximal performance is hard work and most people are not interested in the suffering required to extract their absolute best. It's much easier and more comfortable to ride around at tempo than banging out VO2Max intervals.
Training for maximal performance is hard work and most people are not interested in the suffering required to extract their absolute best. It's much easier and more comfortable to ride around at tempo than banging out VO2Max intervals.
But look at that definition, which is what I've had in mind. The definition presupposes the conclusion, while providing nothing that concretely describes a junk mile. It doesn't really define anything (which should generally make one skeptical). It doesn't make much sense unless you assume a context - and everyone seems to assume that the context is "training", but that's wrong. The junk mile ride in one schedule is the training ride in another. There is a training response, just like there is a training response in the easy Z2 ride. The realistic context is "a specific training plan".
08-03-16, 07:33 AM
#53
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No I'm informed of all that, and it doesn't relate to what I said was arbitrary and had no basis. I don't think we're on the same page about what I said has no basis. It's the concept of the "junk mile" (you're talking about all the other training miles, and all of that is well known to everyone reading, I hope). It is an arbitrary construct with no purpose other than to limit the total stress of training during a given time period. There is nothing intrinsic about these "junk miles" that makes them useless. I have seen no empirical data, anywhere, to support that conventional notion but I have seen training plans which specifically included the type of riding that people call junk miles. The concept relates to a specific plan, not to specific riding.
It's just wrong that "junk miles" - the actual riding, not the plan - can't perform the same function (recovery for instance). The only thing about the way you ride a "junk mile" that gives it different effects in training, that makes it "junk", is that it isn't one the trainer or plan told you to ride. The rest (no HR zone 3 for example) has no credible basis that I've seen.
Are you familiar with the more recent fad of Polarized Training?
It's just wrong that "junk miles" - the actual riding, not the plan - can't perform the same function (recovery for instance). The only thing about the way you ride a "junk mile" that gives it different effects in training, that makes it "junk", is that it isn't one the trainer or plan told you to ride. The rest (no HR zone 3 for example) has no credible basis that I've seen.
Are you familiar with the more recent fad of Polarized Training?
Do you have a link that explains it for the beginner?
-Tim-
08-03-16, 07:39 AM
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08-03-16, 07:45 AM
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I've always heard the term "junk miles" used to refer to those sections of a ride that are A) ugly, B) densely trafficked by automobiles, C) heavily-laden with traffic lights or other interruptions that prevent a cyclist from developing and/or sustaining any kind of rhythm or momentum, or D) all of the above.
It's easy enough to proclaim "any miles are good miles" but when you have to ride 15 miles along Union Turnpike in close proximity to speeding cars with a stoplight every block and nothing but junkyards, auto repair shops, and bodegas on either side of you just to get to the pristine suburban roads, those are definitely "junk".
It's easy enough to proclaim "any miles are good miles" but when you have to ride 15 miles along Union Turnpike in close proximity to speeding cars with a stoplight every block and nothing but junkyards, auto repair shops, and bodegas on either side of you just to get to the pristine suburban roads, those are definitely "junk".
08-03-16, 08:03 AM
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Polarized training sounds like what I do in January.
08-03-16, 08:58 AM
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Whoa ... I've always understood the term "junk miles" to refer to the miles added to an otherwise great route on an organized ride just so it comes to an even 100/200 miles/km. And yea ... sometimes they really are kinda junky in comparison to the other miles on the route.
In running years ago, it was always very low intensity (I guess you'd call it zone 1 now) miles when you weren't recovering. Just going as slow as possible so you could say you'd gotten in X miles but with putting in the least effort possible. Miles that you logged but didn't help your conditioning or recovery. In essence, miles that your coach said you'd wasted your time with.
Last edited by himespau; 08-03-16 at 09:04 AM.
08-03-16, 09:05 AM
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Get with @Carbonfiberboy All I know of it is that the training is "polarized" between VT1 rides and 90% of maxVO2 or higher. My only point is that much of conventional training would be "junk miles" in this scheme (not easy enough).
"Polarized training" refers to training as much as possible at either hard or easy levels and as little as possible in between. Training at easy levels is aimed at increasing fat burning. Training at hard levels is aimed at increasing aerobic and anaerobic ability. Combine the two and you have a strong rider. Not training in between these levels avoids:
1) getting tired so that one is not able to train at the high levels required to maximize training response and
2) always having the fuel lactate in one's system which depresses fat burning.
For more information, see:
https://vimeo.com/98353863
https://www.antoniocgomes.com/wp-con...e-enduran1.pdf
Polarized training has greater impact on key endurance variables than threshold, high intensity, or high volume training
If I may use the sexist term, Thomas Chapple wrote a seminal book in 2006 on the subject of increasing fat burning, Base Building for Cyclists.
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08-03-16, 09:38 AM
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I recently posted:
BTW, my resting heart rate is 48 bpm, sometimes lower (Honest 
)
...last year I developed for myself my “Time-restricted,Personally Ambitious, but Non-competitive Cyclist Training Routine.,”as discussed on this Fifty-Plus thread, “Riding versus Training” (also with other goodtraining tips).
I’m still riding it, and enjoying more than ever.
About two weeks ago I described a new training routine for myself combining a well-established Ten Week Century Training Schedule of daily mileage goals with a personalized intensity scale based on ”Relative Perceived Exertion (RPE).” My basic premise was that I wanted to get significantly fit, within a busy work/family time-crunched life, but not suffer so much that I would abandon the program.
I do have the advantages of a very nice minimum 14 mile one way commute that is easily extended; and a high end, very comfortable carbon fiber road bike that encourages riding…
I do have the advantages of a very nice minimum 14 mile one way commute that is easily extended; and a high end, very comfortable carbon fiber road bike that encourages riding…
)
08-03-16, 09:42 AM
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Having been off the bike for seven or eight years and just getting back into it during the past year, most of my knowledge is based on classic heart rate/lactic threshold zone training ala Burke and Friel circa 2006. If Polarized training is something relatively new then I would not have heard of it. I am also unfamiliar with the details of training with power as it was not as widely used when I got off the bike.
I asked for a link for the same reason someone would ask for a book recommendation rather than browsing Amazon or driving to the book store to look at books on the shelves. I thought the poster might have specific knowledge on the subject and could recommend good information.
This thread is proof that just because something comes up in a google search doesn't mean that it is good information.
-Tim-
08-03-16, 09:52 AM
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Oh I've done that! Arrive at work only to realize I've got to turn around and head right back for something critical.
This thread has been enlightening at least. I don't train so the concept of junk miles is meaningless to me; all my miles ridden are good miles.
08-03-16, 09:54 AM
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08-03-16, 11:22 AM
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08-03-16, 04:49 PM
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I'm reminded of Miles Davis' reply to one of his new sidemen when he asked him "what if I play a wrong note?". Miles responded, "There are no wrong notes". I tend to think there are no "Junk Miles" either.
08-03-16, 06:43 PM
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I like that. There are rides to enjoy the town, enjoy a vintage bike or a bike of your choice. Our summers are too short to call any ride "junk miles".
08-03-16, 07:01 PM
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Anyone using the term "junk miles" could be riding for the wrong reasons and has perhaps lost sight of the value of the precious moments we are given in this life.
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08-04-16, 03:48 AM
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I often get on my bike, get my heart rate up but not near peak, get my breathing up to just before gulping air and go for 10 miles. No goals, Strava off. It just feels good.
Going for that today I think~
Going for that today I think~