Why should I buy a Niner RLT Steel vs Raleigh Tamland 1?
#26
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Niner is a little like buying a BMW--it's a bit (and probably noticeably) better--but is it $$$ better? Maybe not--at least part of that is paying for the badge and some finishing details.
This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
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Niner is a little like buying a BMW--it's a bit (and probably noticeably) better--but is it $$$ better? Maybe not--at least part of that is paying for the badge and some finishing details.
This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
Another factor in this is the service and time the Niner shop put in answering my questions and starting to get the fit right. They have demos of both the 56 and the 59. The Raleigh shop didn't really know anything about the Tamland. The Raleigh shop isn't bad by any means, but they didn't know this product.
#28
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Guitar Ted has also stated that they didn't follow 100% of his suggestions. Leads me to believe he was probably a paid consultant but not getting a percentage of the profits. To me, this makes his assessment pretty believable.
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Honestly this is a lot of to do about nothing. Both are great bikes. The Niner is technically a better bike, the Raleigh is a better value. Pick the features that matter, how much you want to spend, and the one that fits. Then go ride it.
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#30
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A couple of points of interest...
The Niner has flat mount brakes. The Tamland is post mount.
I like the fact that the Tamland has 15 mm through axles front and rear while the Niner has 15 mm front and 12 mm rear.
I also like the fact that the Tamland comes with 160 mm rotors both front and rear while the Niner comes with 160 front and 140 rear. That can be changed with a $12 adapter however.
One thing to keep in mind is the fork. Niner forks are revered in the mountain bike world and the RLT 9 comes with the high-end RDO fork. This is the same fork as the $8800 Five Star RLT 9 RDO. This is a very expensive part - Niner lists a lower model fork on their website for $550. The Niner fork also has rack mounts which can be used for a 4th/5th water bottle.
OP needs to be honest with himself. If the bike is going to see rough service such as rocky or rooted trails then the fork is a big deal. You don't want that thing to break. Many forks break where the steerer meets the crown when the headset gets a little loose, especially when ridden over rocky or rooted trails. I check the headset after all my big/rough rides.
-Tim-
The Niner has flat mount brakes. The Tamland is post mount.
I like the fact that the Tamland has 15 mm through axles front and rear while the Niner has 15 mm front and 12 mm rear.
I also like the fact that the Tamland comes with 160 mm rotors both front and rear while the Niner comes with 160 front and 140 rear. That can be changed with a $12 adapter however.
One thing to keep in mind is the fork. Niner forks are revered in the mountain bike world and the RLT 9 comes with the high-end RDO fork. This is the same fork as the $8800 Five Star RLT 9 RDO. This is a very expensive part - Niner lists a lower model fork on their website for $550. The Niner fork also has rack mounts which can be used for a 4th/5th water bottle.
OP needs to be honest with himself. If the bike is going to see rough service such as rocky or rooted trails then the fork is a big deal. You don't want that thing to break. Many forks break where the steerer meets the crown when the headset gets a little loose, especially when ridden over rocky or rooted trails. I check the headset after all my big/rough rides.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 08-01-17 at 06:53 AM.
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If you can afford the Niner, get it. I bought one because I could afford it, but if my budget was only $1500 I would buy a Tamland or Vaya and be completely content. The Niner is great but it can certainly be considered "diminishing returns" compared to the Tamland.
#32
On yer bike
Pretty sure the Tamland uses the same 12x142 as the Niner. I've never heard of 15mm rear thru. Is that a thing?
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Raleigh Tamland Two Reviewed -
#37
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I thought I read about 15 mm rear though axles somewhere.
-Tim-
-Tim-
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I forgot to link to the review (3 parts). Lots of good info on the bike. The review is 3 years old, so it might not still be "hands down the best".
Raleigh Tamland Two Reviewed -
Raleigh Tamland Two Reviewed -
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
#39
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FYI, American Classic 29" MTB Race wheels were $899 when I bought them.
They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.
The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.
https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
-Tim-
They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.
The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.
https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
-Tim-
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"Hands Down the Best" was his opinion at the time. After riding the Niner, I can't believe the Tamland is "better", especially considering the better wheels on the Niner. I'm not a high-end rider at all. If I got the Tamland and put $600 wheels on it I'd still be way under the cost of Niner. Even though I can afford the Niner, is it worth the price difference?
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
FYI, American Classic 29" MTB Race wheels were $899 when I bought them.
They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.
The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.
https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
-Tim-
They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.
The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.
https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html
-Tim-
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There is a guy who rides the Niner RLT on some very fast road bike group rides (cat3 race speeds). He seems to do fine on that bike - it looks pretty versatile to me!
#42
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"Hands Down the Best" was his opinion at the time. After riding the Niner, I can't believe the Tamland is "better", especially considering the better wheels on the Niner. I'm not a high-end rider at all. If I got the Tamland and put $600 wheels on it I'd still be way under the cost of Niner. Even though I can afford the Niner, is it worth the price difference?
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
Method Cycles also has beers and coffees out front
#43
Senior Member
I rode the Niner tonight. It certainly is a beautiful bike and a great ride. I rode the 56 but pretty sure I need to move up to the 59. I'm going to take it on a longer ride next week before I decide.
Another factor in this is the service and time the Niner shop put in answering my questions and starting to get the fit right. They have demos of both the 56 and the 59. The Raleigh shop didn't really know anything about the Tamland. The Raleigh shop isn't bad by any means, but they didn't know this product.
Another factor in this is the service and time the Niner shop put in answering my questions and starting to get the fit right. They have demos of both the 56 and the 59. The Raleigh shop didn't really know anything about the Tamland. The Raleigh shop isn't bad by any means, but they didn't know this product.
But I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Tamland either. I know that if I had known about the corporate codes for Raleigh when I was shopping, I would have bought one of their adventure bike offerings instead of the Niner.
#44
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#45
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I heard back from the Niner shop on the price for a 105 Niner build. $4000. Ouch.
I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.
I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.
I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
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I heard back from the Niner shop on the price for a 105 Niner build. $4000. Ouch.
I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.
I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.
I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
-Frameset/headset: $1500
-105 mechanical group $ 425, 105 hydraulic for $530
-Handbuilts from ProWheelbuilder: $450-500 to get some decent hoops
-Tires/tubes: $100
-bars/stem/tape/cages/saddle: $300 lets say.
Could do that for $3K yourself. Ever built a bike?
$4K for 105 is indeed ouch...I built my Carver Di2 for only a bit more.
#47
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Poster Marcus has it right- build it yourself if you need the niner. Since you would be just buying wheels, everything else is plug-n-play. A handful of specialized tools is all you need and if there is a coop/collective in Lincoln, they should have everything needed for use.
You could spec it exactly how you want. Youtube, sheldon brown, parktool, and this forum are all you need for any reference and help.
#48
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I've never built a bike. I've wanted to be better at mechanics and that'd probably be a good way to learn.
I should look at more frames than the Niner though. There has to be good steel options.
I should look at more frames than the Niner though. There has to be good steel options.
#49
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Building a bike yourself is cheaper than hiring a professional to build it for you. Imagine that!
Buying a complete bike is cheaper than buying a frame and buying essentially equivalent parts because of the buying power of the bike manufacturer. A sorry state of affairs exists in today's world where you can probably buy many components online for less than your friendly neighborhood bike shop can buy them at wholesale. Shimano is worse about this than most. The bike shop is probably not ripping you off. That said, before I'd pay $4000 for a 105 build, I'd get the 4 Star Ultegra build with carbon wheels for $4400 or the 3 Star Rival build for $3200.
Buying a complete bike is cheaper than buying a frame and buying essentially equivalent parts because of the buying power of the bike manufacturer. A sorry state of affairs exists in today's world where you can probably buy many components online for less than your friendly neighborhood bike shop can buy them at wholesale. Shimano is worse about this than most. The bike shop is probably not ripping you off. That said, before I'd pay $4000 for a 105 build, I'd get the 4 Star Ultegra build with carbon wheels for $4400 or the 3 Star Rival build for $3200.
Last edited by BluesDawg; 08-02-17 at 09:19 PM.
#50
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Niner RLT 9 steel framesets were $1250 a few months ago.
Enduro Torqtite and Praxis bottom brackets literally slip into the PF30 shell and screw together. There is nothing to press and PF30 becomes a moot point.
@Donsell, too bad you are in Nebraska and I'm in Georgia otherwise I'd help you build up a sweet RLT 9 and bet we could do it for less than $3k.
-Tim-
Enduro Torqtite and Praxis bottom brackets literally slip into the PF30 shell and screw together. There is nothing to press and PF30 becomes a moot point.
@Donsell, too bad you are in Nebraska and I'm in Georgia otherwise I'd help you build up a sweet RLT 9 and bet we could do it for less than $3k.
-Tim-