SquidPuppet

OK, so there was excess axle on the outside of the dropouts on one side. Gotcha. That would not affect the inner workings. However, it's a clear indication that someone has completely disassemble that thing at one point in time, because they come from the factory centered.

Hummmm. Did you roll the axle on a known flat surface to see if it was bent? I'm running out of ideas here.

VaBeachTennis

That, I didn't do. I tend to think that your questions regarding the clutch and spring, as well as the light grease on the outside of the brake shoes instead of heavy grease, may lead me to a good conclusion. i actually put a lot of grease in the hub. I am going to strip that down and clean it, take the spring out of the clutch and inspect it. If that fails, luckily Amazon has these parts:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...QP68MWQU&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ZMD0QFVQ&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...QP68MWQU&psc=1

I think that the problem lies in at least the first two parts above. I'm going to order those part and while I am waiting for them, I am going to try to overhaul the original parts. I have taken and held this bike up to 19mph in it's current condition and can relax and roll @ 13 to 14 mph. There's no sound coming from the bottom bracket because it's there even I stop pedaling and coast. It does stop when I hit the brakes but will be there when I coast or pedal.

I bet that I am doing something wrong with that clutch assembly. The wheel spins great , the wheel also spins great and brakes very well.

SquidPuppet

Let me know the outcome please. Thanks and good luck.

VaBeachTennis

I definitely will, thank you for your expertise and input!

VaBeachTennis

Just a quick update: I kept on riding the bike because I cou8ldn't figure it out after taking it apart. Those extra miles helped me see that the bearings and the bearing retainer were pretty much fried. It was on the side of the coaster brake arm on my Shimano CB-E110 hub/assembly. Luckily my hardware store has those 9 count 7/32's in stock. When I took the hub apart this time and cleaned it, there were metal shavings everywhere. I will reassemble and let everyone know what the result is. Hopefully it will be a good one when I replace all of the bearings and retainers for 5 or 6 bucks instead of buying a new wheel and hub assembly for 35+ dollars. Once again thank you all for your advice!

SquidPuppet

Yeah, metal shavings will have a tendency to make a grinding sound.

But seriously, glad you found the problem. Are the races in the hub where the bearings go still smooth and not scarred? How about the cones? What were the shavings from? The retainers or the balls?

Is there a chance that you installed the retainer backwards?

VaBeachTennis

It was weird because it would go for a mile and quite smoothly and then some of the bearings got loose and would make that sound, then I would maybe hit a lucky bump and the sound would go away again and everything was smooth. The bearing cage was pretty out of sorts and three bearings dropped out of them, they also looked like they were a different bearing set and size than the one on the sprocket side.

The races seemed pretty smooth to me, inside the hub looks spotless after I cleaned it. The races are going to be cleaned after dinner but the initial inspection looked good to me. I think that the shavings came from both but mainly from the balls because all I saw was this bright type of shaving as well as the fact that the balls were smaller than the other side and feel right out of the retainer.

Thankfully no! I used that diagram to re-assemble and for the part information as well as a boat load of videos. LOL.

SquidPuppet

The left and right hub bearings are 9 x 7/32, but as you can see, the driver retainer holds fewer balls and they are 1/4 inch.

Just something to consider on the next rebuild. Or this one. It's totally over-the-top anal OCD but I dig doing it. I replace the retainer bearings with individual loose balls. This way you can fit more balls in there which allows better weight distribution and decreased load on the individual balls, races and cones. That's always a good thing for reducing wear. The hub spins better and the balls don't experience any friction casued by contact with the retainer. The grease self-distributes better without the retainers too. And the big bonus is, for some unknown reason, the hub will hold your adjustment way better for much longer. The difference is notceable. It's like you are converting it to a Dura-Ace coaster brake. Grade 25 loose balls are cheap at your local bike shop too.

VaBeachTennis

That sounds good! It may even be cheaper to get the individual balls than the assemblies with the cages? I have one question;in my searches for solutions, some smart guy (you) gave another one advice regard the grease to use and how it's different for the brake pads and bearings. Here's the quote: "When greased with the right type(S) of grease(S), different for bearings and brakes, mine are dead silent and drag is almost nonexistent."


When I initially reassembled the hub, I used a lithium general purpose grease (The reason why I took it apart was because of the sound it was making all along) and the sounds were still there. The second time I did the installation, I used "Extreme Pressure Hi-Temp Grease" on everything it has a "drop point" of 500F minimum. Can you suggest the right type of grease I should use on both?

I really appreciate all of the help.

SquidPuppet

I used to use different grease for the brakes and bearings. A lighter viscosity for the brakes. After discovering the "Less is better" approach for gereasing the brakes, I went back to using only one grease for all.

Use a grease with an NLGI grade #2 on the label. NLGI 2 is THE appropriate viscosity for bike usage. Thinner is too thin, It'll bleed and lube poorly. Thicker is no good either, because it wont lube and won't distribute itself adequately. Among NLGI 2 greases you will find that some are tackier and some are more slippery to the touch. Tacky makes working with it easier, balls stray put while assembling, etc. I prefer low tack though because it's less stubborn to clean and In my head grease should be slippery, right? It's a lube right?

A high temp grease is a very good idea for coaster brakes that will see lots of hill use. The higher the drop point the better. High temp grease isn't needed anywhere else on the bike though, although it'll work just fine if it's NLGI 2.

There is a lot of debate over greases. Lithium base, soap base, aluminum base, with molybdenum disulfide, and on and on.

For fun, because I'm weird, I have experimented with many many greases. Marine grease (Boat trailer) is great because it's very water resistant. For decades I used Bel-Ray salt water proof motorcycle wheel bearing grease. It works great, lasts forever, and doesn't separate. But it's very dark so it's hard to see if it is contaminated and it smells bad and is hard to wash off. I've tried expensive bike specific greases, and they are all mostly meh, just grease. Some of the really expensive ones actually sucked.

My most recent experiment is this stuff.




From the manufacturer...

I got it because I had a freak experience last summer. I opened up a loose ball front hub that I know for a fact had not been services in over 14 years. The guts were flawless and there was this bizarre other-worldly 100% clear grease. Crystal clear like water. I could see that there was no contamination. WTF is this miracle product I wondered? That sent me on the hunt for this holy grail clear grease. I stumbled across the White Lightning product and immediately ordered some. It has a high drop point and a million other benefits, that are all true. It wipes right off your hands with just a paper towel, ZERO smell, etc etc etc. OK, here is the hilarious part. The MAIN reason I tried it was because it was clear. And it is. It's literally crystal clear like water. Well...... as it turns out......that makes it a big pain in the ass to use. When you are filling a race cup it's difficult to see if you have enough in there. Or is it not enough? And if you try to pack retainers, same problem. If you place loose balls in a cup race and then try to add grease on top of them, you cant see how much you are loading. And putting it on the outside of stuff is even worse, like coating the shoes and clutch. You just can't see the damn stuff. And the shinier the metal, the worse it is. It does work well though. I don't know how long it lasts, yet, but it seems to be holding up OK and not separating. I will NOT buy it again though, simply for the exact reason I DID buy it in the first place. TOO CLEAR.

I investigated Mobil 1 full synthetic. I found dozens after dozens of guys rating it as crap. They said after greasing their car, truck, etc, they left their grease guns hanging on a hook or laying on the work bench. After not very long, while exposed to only mild ambient temperatures, the lubricant component would completely separate from the carrier component, and it would just be running out of the gun. The obvious concern it that the same thing could happen in wheel bearings and chassis parts, etc.

Because I am a weirdo, I started looking for a grease with a pretty color for easy identification. Preferably a sexy racey color. I wanted a translucent so I could see contamination easy. And of course it needs to be an excellent NLGI 2 with a very high temp rating. A couple months ago a got a recommendation from an excellent forum member here in the fixed gear sub forum. His brother works on a Mazda racing team and they swear by Red Line. They claim it is awesome in every way, (900f drop point ) so it's on my list for my next servicing. I haven't bought any yet, but it very reasonably priced and it's red.

Another trustworthy member here swears by Maxima grease. I've used other Maxima motorcycle products and they are good, so I might try the grease. Maybe I'll try it first since it's so beautiful. 560f drop point.


Go to Walmart and get NLGI 2 boat trailer/marine grease for cheap. It'll be just fine. Serious.

BassNotBass

I've also tried various greases/lubes over the decades and have just resorted to using boat trailer/marine grease and it works very well for me. Granted, unlike SquidPuppet I really pack the stuff into my hubs but it's my 'go to' grease and it works well in the hot summers and freezing winters, wet or dry. I also use it sparingly on my chain (wipe the excess off of the link side plates). It lasts for weeks even during the rainy months.

VaBeachTennis

Thanks for the information on the Marine Grease. The next time I service the hub, I will use it.

VaBeachTennis

I like the idea of the marine grease. Here's an update:

I replaced all of the bearings and degreased/cleaned/regreased the hub as well as the rest of the parts. I test 21 miles on the bike today and it ran really smooth, no sounds except my fat ass creaking on the Schwinn spring seat and pedaling was really nice.

The only new "problem" I noticed is that it feels like it has a bottom bracket type of problem after I coast and brake but 10 or so revolutions later it smooths out and if I keep on pedaling it doesn't return, even if I spin it @16+mph for a good distance. I'm going to check the tension on the brake arm strap and make sure it's secure.

It seems like the coasting and braking "loosens" something and then the subsequent pedaling "tightens" it back up and then it's good again until I coast or brake.

SquidPuppet

Cool. Maybe the rear hub is all good now.

Open that bottom bracket up and see what's going on in there. Ashtabula (one piece) cranks are stupidly simple to service and parts are dirt cheap. Just FYI, the lock nut and cone on the non-drive side are reverse threaded. Pack the snot out of it. Also, you will never achieve a perfect bearing preload adjustment on an Ashtabula crank, never, no matter what, so don't kill yourself trying. It will either have a tiny bit of play, or be play-free and feel a tiny bit lumpy. Personally, I go for lumpy.

A thought...

I'm just sharing this because you mentioned that you were more familiar with road and MTBs. With derailleurs I assume. And derailleurs keep the chain properly tensioned for you. Your cruiser chain is different, obviously. Make sure the chain isn't too tight. If it is you will definitely feel and hear a binding that could be confused with other issues. It's bad too, for everything in the drive train. The proper tension for a single speed chain is NO tension. You want slack. Visible slack. Don't be afraid to run it a little sloppy. Obviously you don't want to be able to derail it, but the zone between too tight and derail is LARGE.

BassNotBass

I agree with Squid's chain slack comment. One thing about these inexpensive drive trains is that they aren't close to being machined well and true so even with brand new components there can a be a noticeable change in chain tension as you rotate the cranks. Always adjust the chain tension/slack at it's tightest point. Chain slack is also a good reason to stick with the traditional single speed 1/8" width drivetrain instead of opting for 3/32". The 3/32" chains are usually intended for derailleur drive trains so they're designed to flex laterally a little to make shifting and jumping from one cog to another possible. This is often the cause of a chain jumping the chainring on a single speed if chain tension isn't tighter than you would normally run it. This was a common problem during the fixie fad when people were doing the cheap road bike to fixie conversions.

VaBeachTennis

Ain't that the truth!!!! I was riding today and I hit a bump on a little turn and my chain came off ("no brakes!") but luckily I was on the road and no one and no vehicles were present while I coasted to a stop. I guess it was too loose because I was almost able to put the chain on there without the help of turning the sprocket.

VaBeachTennis

I have a new chain that is the 1/8 chain, I'm going to install it and hope that it stops my chain from jumping, the bike made it approximately 40 miles before the chain decided to jump off of the sprocket. I might eventually do something that seems taboo for the Cruiser purists and put a hand brake at least on the front or rear wheel, it's pretty unsettling to have your chain pop off @15mph with no way to stop! LOL Otherwise, I love the simplicity of riding a single speed coaster brake beach cruiser. I usually ride road bikes and it's fun to get on them after a few days of riding the cruiser.

SquidPuppet

Yeah that's a bit on the loose side. A big BIT.

VaBeachTennis

I can swear that it creeped up on me, it didn't start out that loose, I am going to recheck the washers. I try not to over tighten things, so I may just have to re-adjust the chain tension and tighten it up a little more than I did the last time.

SquidPuppet

Get serrated washers. Or better yet, track nuts with a built in serrated swivel washer and tighten them down really well. You can get the nice track nuts in a pack of 4 at PorkchopBMX.com. Two are 24tpi and two are 26tpi so you are ready to rock, front and rear. Shiny and sanitary.

BTW. KMC makes a 3/32 chain that is designed specifically for single speed/fixed gear drive trains. The plate's shape and thickness are just like 1/8 chain, it's just narrower. I run one on one of my bikes and it can't be derailed, even with a screwdriver or something else to encourage it to jump the ring.

VaBeachTennis

Thanks again! Probably while were typing this, I was checking the washers. The serrated edges are pretty well worn and yeah, I'll confess that I goofed on the brake side and put the serrated edges on the side of the nut instead of on the drop out side. Haste makes waste!


I will definitely order those track nuts with the built in washers.

BassNotBass

They're beautiful little bits... very jewel-like.

As for a front brake, definitely run one if you chug through traffic at a good pace or have hills to ride down. I'm all for simplicity and clean lines but I'd like to be around longer to enjoy things like that so unless I'm doing unicycle speeds, I run two braking options.

SquidPuppet

Eight bucks for four nuts is kinda lame. But they are too cool not to have.

VaBeachTennis

Smart!