Spoke gauge for a Clyde?
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Spoke gauge for a Clyde?
I have my rear hub and rim picked out (32 hole DT 350 + archetype) , but stuck on spokes. I know the double butted are easier on the rim and will absorb blows from potholes, but they also flex more when I mash the pedal. How light can I go and still have a pretty stiff wheel?
I have been prone to using a straight 12 gauge with Brass nipples, but would like a more balanced wheel if possible. What do you guys who build wheels at your shop recommend to a 240 pound Clyde?
I have been prone to using a straight 12 gauge with Brass nipples, but would like a more balanced wheel if possible. What do you guys who build wheels at your shop recommend to a 240 pound Clyde?
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Double butted are actually stronger in actual use than straight gauge.
We use 28 spoke 14/15 Double butted spokes on our tandem with a team weight of 350+/-
We use 28 spoke 14/15 Double butted spokes on our tandem with a team weight of 350+/-
Last edited by merlinextraligh; 08-27-17 at 07:42 PM.
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I'm running 24/24 DT Swiss Aero Comp; with full kit and jersey pockets stuffed I'm about 230 lbs. With stiff rims this is quite sufficient.
#6
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spoke count, rim strength and depth are what count.
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#8
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I'm also a clyde (currently heavier than you by >10lbs ) and I've built myself several sets of wheels. Currently on my main road bike are KinLin 30mm rims with Sapim CX Ray spokes 24 front radial and 28 rear 2x. Have had zero issues since I laced them this way for thousands of miles. My gravel bike is KinLin XD-230 29er rims 32 spokes 3x with Sapim Race spokes so 14/15/14 double butted. I've had 1 spoke break there in 3 years of use and it took a hit weakening the middle of the spoke.
Go double butted for sure and no worries if built properly. Tension is key here...under tensioned and your wheels just won't stay true.
Go double butted for sure and no worries if built properly. Tension is key here...under tensioned and your wheels just won't stay true.
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Yes and no. Sure it counts, but nearly all spokes are strong enough to do the job. Spoke don't break because they aren't strong enough;. They break because poor building technique causes them to fatigue in use. Actually it is generally accepted that the narrowest gauge spokes are the most resistant to that kind of breakage. At 170+ lb I use only 20/24 Sapim Laser and CX-Rays. If you want a stronger and stiffer wheel for your heavier weight, then use more of these same spokes, not heavier spokes.
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240lbs isn't that heavy. 28/32 with 14/15/14 DB spokes and a quality hoop like HED C2 should be fine. A few years ago I built a wheelset like this(using White Industries T11 hubs) for a former NFL linebacker. He weighed about 260#, and rode with the finesse you would expect from a football player. He hasn't had any problems with them not being stiff enough, and zero durability issues.
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240 is not that heavy. Many tandems are riding on 14 gauge. Even spoke count is less important on modern carbon wheels. Go 50mm depth. If the riding area is pretty clean from debris consider a 27 mm tubular. I would invest in a top quality spoke. A Sapim cx-Ray or DT aerolite are both thin and don't break. Those in a 50mm carbon rim should do fine. Getting a 32hole setup might be difficult, but they'd work fine unless you are riding cobbles all day, and then they still might work fine.
#12
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Agree. Any 'normal' spoke should be more than fine. At your weight, just verifying that the wheel is tensioned properly may be more important that someone who weighs 160lbs. I'm 190 with a 30lb+ bike...I just rebuilt a wheel with 14/15 gauge drive side, 14/17 gauge non drive side. This seems pretty common as a build, and I really don't think plus or minus <50lbs needs to really be accounted for all that much.
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I should be good there then, 32 spokes and a beefed up rim bed on the archetype
I'm also a clyde (currently heavier than you by >10lbs ) and I've built myself several sets of wheels. Currently on my main road bike are KinLin 30mm rims with Sapim CX Ray spokes 24 front radial and 28 rear 2x. Have had zero issues since I laced them this way for thousands of miles.Go double butted for sure and no worries if built properly. Tension is key here...under tensioned and your wheels just won't stay true.
240lbs isn't that heavy. 28/32 with 14/15/14 DB spokes and a quality hoop like HED C2 should be fine. A few years ago I built a wheelset like this(using White Industries T11 hubs) for a former NFL linebacker. He weighed about 260#, and rode with the finesse you would expect from a football player. He hasn't had any problems with them not being stiff enough, and zero durability issues.
I can get the Sapim 14/15/14 @ $36. for 40 of them (2 packs of 20)
Does anyone know if it's possible on a traditional 32 spoke wheel to do a 3X on the drive side and 2X on the non drive, or will the patterns not match up properly?
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If you can find the specs on that spoke, compare it.
#15
You gonna eat that?
I fluctuate from about 200-240. There's nothing special about my wheels. As long as you're looking at a minimum of 32 spokes and they're propoerly tensioned, you should be fine.
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You are over thinking. A Shimano R500 will work fine for you and are cheap. So will HED Belgium etc.
Bigger tires help.
Not doing out of the saddle sprints help.
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Why buy boxes of spokes when you can buy them individually to the correct size? Maybe cost I guess but I always use BHS personally.
Sapim Force Spokes - $1.30
Sapim Force Spokes - $1.30
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not doing out of the saddle sprints might help the wheel last a longtime, but it won't help me to want to ride. I know what you mean though, when you start whipping the back wheel left/ right so hard it's starting to skip off the pavement then it's time to let off.
Why buy boxes of spokes when you can buy them individually to the correct size? Maybe cost I guess but I always use BHS personally.
Sapim Force Spokes - $1.30
Sapim Force Spokes - $1.30
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the help. I just checked out for $249.35 w/free ship. I got the DT Swiss 350 11 speed hub , Archetype rim, 40 Sapim 14/15/14 spokes, and a bag of 50 Wheelsmith brass nipples. Hard to believe, seems like a screaming deal. I remember my first "high end " wheel late 1990's . Well over $300., which is probably approaching $500. in today's dollars.
Life is good
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Why would you want to do that? At any given number of spokes and flange height, there is usually one X number that puts the spokes closest to tangent to the hub flange. That is what you want; it is the purpose of crossing the spokes. There is no reason to have a different X on one side than the other when there are the same number of spokes on both sides. The weight savings would be minuscule. The lone exception is radial lacing on the NDS.
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But really there is NO reason to radial lace the NDS. Radial lace the drive side has benefits...but hub manufacturers don't make the DS flange strong enough (most of the time) to allow it.
Radial lacing the DS allows more even tension and makes balances the drive torque.... This is what Mavic's Isopulse lacing is. Interestingly I'd love to know why Mavic uses Isopulse for most of their wheels but not the top most carbon race wheels. Cosmic Ultimate is the only wheel in that series (over $500) that doesn't and none of the CXR wheels do. Then the sub $500 wheels don't use it either.
Radial lacing the DS allows more even tension and makes balances the drive torque.... This is what Mavic's Isopulse lacing is. Interestingly I'd love to know why Mavic uses Isopulse for most of their wheels but not the top most carbon race wheels. Cosmic Ultimate is the only wheel in that series (over $500) that doesn't and none of the CXR wheels do. Then the sub $500 wheels don't use it either.
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But really there is NO reason to radial lace the NDS. Radial lace the drive side has benefits...but hub manufacturers don't make the DS flange strong enough (most of the time) to allow it.
Radial lacing the DS allows more even tension and makes balances the drive torque.... This is what Mavic's Isopulse lacing is. Interestingly I'd love to know why Mavic uses Isopulse for most of their wheels but not the top most carbon race wheels. Cosmic Ultimate is the only wheel in that series (over $500) that doesn't and none of the CXR wheels do. Then the sub $500 wheels don't use it either.
Radial lacing the DS allows more even tension and makes balances the drive torque.... This is what Mavic's Isopulse lacing is. Interestingly I'd love to know why Mavic uses Isopulse for most of their wheels but not the top most carbon race wheels. Cosmic Ultimate is the only wheel in that series (over $500) that doesn't and none of the CXR wheels do. Then the sub $500 wheels don't use it either.
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The only reason on the NDS is weight saving, small as it is. And I have built wheels with radial DS. They work just fine. I think that the oversize aluminum hub shells are stiff enough to transmit torque to the other side where the crossed spokes are without significant losses.
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Oh yeah the hub shells will transmit the power just fine...it's the DS flange that's the issue. I'm guessing you'd be hard pressed to find any company that will say it's ok to radial DS lace their hubs. I did it a few years ago and ran the wheels for about 3k miles before ripping the DS flange apart on a set of Formula hubs.
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Just telling you what I was told and what I experienced. Was basically told that none of them test the hub for DS radial lacing and no one would warranty a hub built into a wheel that way. I scoffed...and then 3k miles later rebuilt the wheels with a new hub 2x having ripped a chunk out of the DS flange.
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