Track newbie needs help!
10-15-17, 02:37 PM
#27
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Here's how you make them:
Step 1: Buy road bars.
Step 2: Loosen stem.
Step 3: Rotate 20 degrees
Step 4: (optional) Tighten stem.
Step 1: Buy road bars.
Step 2: Loosen stem.
Step 3: Rotate 20 degrees
Step 4: (optional) Tighten stem.
10-15-17, 02:46 PM
#28
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Thanks!
I'm wondering if Scattos are popular for endurance then. I know the compact roadbars are common in use, what do you think about Scatto? I know this position is mainly use only for breakaway...
I'm wondering if Scattos are popular for endurance then. I know the compact roadbars are common in use, what do you think about Scatto? I know this position is mainly use only for breakaway...
10-15-17, 02:53 PM
#29
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Also, I *think* the sphinx position is technically illegal as the rider's hands should always be in the drops for safety reasons. I'm probably wrong, but I think that's a rule.
I know the UCI issued a rule that effectively outlawed the 3T Sphinx bars by noting that the hand position on the tops could not exceed 5mm over the front axle. So, then riders had to use really short stems and the advantage of the Sphinx bars was gone.
If you are trying to find equipment, I suggest very narrow road bars (child size) or 3T Scatto. Understand that you will not find the perfect bar the first time. It's a journey. You will try several before you find the one that you and your body like.
10-15-17, 08:49 PM
#30
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In addition, while riding on the track, riders have at all times be in firm control of the bicycle and have at least one hand on the handlebar (or extension).
(text modified on 30.09.10)
(text modified on 30.09.10)
Also madison exchanges are done with one rider grasping the top of the bars near the stem.
10-15-17, 10:54 PM
#31
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Is the faux aerobar position where the rider simply rests his forearms on the bare bars? That's terribly unsafe. Maybe not at the elite level, but you know someone at the local level will try it
10-16-17, 06:09 PM
#32
Senior Member
The faux aerobar position where you just have the forearms on the bars is illegal. I recently became a commissaire and we were informed in our training that if we saw it anywhere it was to be punished. They are trying to get rid of it from the sport due to the unsafe nature.
The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
10-16-17, 08:39 PM
#33
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The faux aerobar position where you just have the forearms on the bars is illegal. I recently became a commissaire and we were informed in our training that if we saw it anywhere it was to be punished. They are trying to get rid of it from the sport due to the unsafe nature.
The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
10-16-17, 08:58 PM
#34
Senior Member
I used to ride that position before it was cool 
It's actually a pretty aero position and there's a big difference between that and just sitting in the drops. No problems with control either. Once I moved to sprint style bars i wasn't able to do it any more.
It's actually a pretty aero position and there's a big difference between that and just sitting in the drops. No problems with control either. Once I moved to sprint style bars i wasn't able to do it any more.
10-17-17, 06:52 AM
#35
aka mattio
i love the spinx position. i did some rough testing and it's more aero than the drops. solo stability is just fine (for me). I use it when I'm solo and stable: after accelerating to bridge a gap at very high speed, or when settling into doing work at the front.
10-17-17, 06:58 AM
#36
aka mattio
I learned about it as the Llaneras position, before Cam Meyer adopted it and 3T made that Sphinx bar for him. As far as I know, Joan Llaneras pioneered or popularized it. Anybody know more history of the position?
10-17-17, 07:50 AM
#37
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yeah, the sphinx position is pretty cool. I use it a lot in front of group or solo chasing/breakaway. i definitely go a way faster than in drops.
handling is not an issue too, a way easier than the faux aero that was not a problem either.
as the sphinx is still legal, anyone tried it on Scatto? it looks like less comfortable but possible, but never tried on scatto before so i can be wrong
handling is not an issue too, a way easier than the faux aero that was not a problem either.
as the sphinx is still legal, anyone tried it on Scatto? it looks like less comfortable but possible, but never tried on scatto before so i can be wrong
10-17-17, 08:11 AM
#38
aka mattio
i've tried putting my arms there on the scatto, but i haven't used them in a race.
you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.
they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.
and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.
that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.
they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.
and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.
that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
10-19-17, 10:19 AM
#39
Full Member
i've tried putting my arms there on the scatto, but i haven't used them in a race.
you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.
they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.
and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.
that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.
they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.
and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.
that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
10-19-17, 12:17 PM
#41
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10-19-17, 12:42 PM
#42
aka mattio
10-20-17, 05:20 PM
#43
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I don't think a wacky handlebar tape job would infrige UCI equipment rules unless this affect the well functioning of the bike.
10-23-17, 05:48 AM
#44
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Tape is illegal IMHO.
From the Article 1.3.002:
However the explanation says about 3:1 rule but I think it still affects any tape on bar..
EDIT: Then I found this:
So, I am confused
From the Article 1.3.002:
“A licence holder is not authorised to modify, in any way, the equipment given by the manufacturer used in competition.”
Modifying equipment used in competition in relation to products supplied by the manufacturer is prohibited for obvious safety reasons. Whether it is a matter of modifying the length of the saddle, adapting approved wheels, filing off fork drop-out safety lugs, meeting the 3:1 rule by adding tape to handlebars or adding a nonslip system on the saddle, no modification of equipment that is not conducted by the manufacturer is authorised by the UCI without prior approval.
The addition of handlebar tape to improve the rider's grip is authorised, but tape must be identifiable and only used where the rider's hands grip the handlebars.
10-23-17, 06:18 AM
#45
aka mattio
handlebar tape is not illegal.
that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.
confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.
confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
10-23-17, 07:54 AM
#46
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handlebar tape is not illegal.
that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.
confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.
confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
As QP notes, most times you won't be hassled by it. But, if it's technically illegal based on the rules under which we ride, then it's unsportsmanlike at best and a cheating at worse.
Imagine losing a close one to a person who modded the bars like that and it was later considered illegal.
tl;dr: Ask the person in charge of the race.
10-23-17, 04:18 PM
#47
Senior Member
Modifying equipment used in competition in relation to products supplied by the manufacturer is prohibited for obvious safety reasons. Whether it is a matter of modifying the length of the saddle, adapting approved wheels, filing off fork drop-out safety lugs, meeting the 3:1 rule by adding tape to handlebars or adding a nonslip system on the saddle, no modification of equipment that is not conducted by the manufacturer is authorised by the UCI without prior approval.
10-23-17, 04:28 PM
#48
Full Member
Interesting. So are you saying that the "hoods" aren't areas we normally grip on the track? Not arguing against it, but I also usually tape the tops on one side of my bars for Madisons. I totally get the aversion to weird positions like the "sphinx". It looks terrible and weird. Personally, I think disc brakes on road bikes look terrible, and I would never ride discs on the road unless that's the only thing we can get.
10-23-17, 04:58 PM
#49
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According discs and some weird UCI regulations:
"...the valve access hole of disc wheels that may be covered provided that the cover used is supplied by the wheel manufacturer (and no other party)."
10-23-17, 05:01 PM
#50
Senior Member
Interesting. So are you saying that the "hoods" aren't areas we normally grip on the track? Not arguing against it, but I also usually tape the tops on one side of my bars for Madisons. I totally get the aversion to weird positions like the "sphinx". It looks terrible and weird. Personally, I think disc brakes on road bikes look terrible, and I would never ride discs on the road unless that's the only thing we can get.
I've owned 3T bars before and currently run BT bars so I'm quite familiar with how they ride and feel. That style of taping to me does not equate to a regular taped hand area. Maybe I would reserve my decision until I saw the rider out on the track and see just how they utilise the taped area. If we're talking madison racing and I would be puzzled as to why use the 3Ts, but it could be legit but if that were the purpose, I'd think more tape along the top of the bar or just one side would be the reality.
