Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area
Reload this Page >

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Notices
Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Ask your small, random, track-related questions here

Old 01-06-18, 04:50 PM
  #4776  
cfreemanpt
Junior Member
 
cfreemanpt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 11

Bikes: Cervelo s3, Bianchi Super Pista, Dolan Precursa

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey y'all, I have a small, random track question. I currently have 40cm Pro Vibe track bars on my bike. I'm toying with the idea of going to a narrower bar this season, 35-37cm, but before I do I was curious about how a narrower bar affects handling, drop/reach being similar.
cfreemanpt is offline  
Old 01-06-18, 05:30 PM
  #4777  
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by cfreemanpt
Hey y'all, I have a small, random track question. I currently have 40cm Pro Vibe track bars on my bike. I'm toying with the idea of going to a narrower bar this season, 35-37cm, but before I do I was curious about how a narrower bar affects handling, drop/reach being similar.
i think it depends on the rider. somebody who has a weak core, bad weight distribution, and tends to forcibly steer the bike might feel like it affects handling badly. but somebody who doesn't do that stuff is likely to feel a pretty negligible effect.

when i put 36cm bars on my bike, i also put a 10mm longer stem, and feel like i could even go longer (though that's also due to the new bars having a very shallow drop) - so, consider the effect of new bars on the rest of your setup.

i have a set of 36cm Zipps i'd like to get rid of - feel free to hit me up if you want to experiment with something a lot cheaper than the expensive narrow track bars.
queerpunk is offline  
Old 01-07-18, 12:35 PM
  #4778  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by queerpunk
i think it depends on the rider. somebody who has a weak core, bad weight distribution, and tends to forcibly steer the bike might feel like it affects handling badly. but somebody who doesn't do that stuff is likely to feel a pretty negligible effect.

when i put 36cm bars on my bike, i also put a 10mm longer stem, and feel like i could even go longer (though that's also due to the new bars having a very shallow drop) - so, consider the effect of new bars on the rest of your setup.

i have a set of 36cm Zipps i'd like to get rid of - feel free to hit me up if you want to experiment with something a lot cheaper than the expensive narrow track bars.
+1

cfreemanpt, just understand that it's gonna feel different and don't give up on them after 1 or 2 rides. Whenever you try whatever bars you try, give them a fair shot of at least 4 sessions.

As queerpunk points out, the geo will change, so if you feel like you need a stem that's 2-4cm longer than before, go with it, as many of the narrow bars are also shorter in reach combined with the fact that when your arms are wide apart then come in closer, they push your back up. To get back down, you have to reach out more. This is one reason why you see 130 and 140mm stems mated with narrow bars.

Last edited by carleton; 01-07-18 at 12:43 PM.
carleton is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 11:27 PM
  #4779  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars

I’m looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I can’t seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 01-10-18, 11:53 PM
  #4780  
taras0000
Lapped 3x
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,723
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
I’m looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I can’t seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Wine corks if you want something different.
taras0000 is offline  
Old 01-11-18, 05:34 AM
  #4781  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
I’m looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I can’t seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Find somebody with a 3d printer and print some in whatever shape you want.

I made bullet shaped plugs for my bars.

Zipp also (at least used to) make some rounded plugs that are similar.
Morelock is offline  
Old 01-11-18, 08:09 AM
  #4782  
Poppit
Full Member
 
Poppit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 277
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
I’m looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I can’t seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
https://www.shopforwatts.co.uk/colle...ro-accessories
Poppit is offline  
Old 01-11-18, 08:53 AM
  #4783  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Morelock
Find somebody with a 3d printer and print some in whatever shape you want.

I made bullet shaped plugs for my bars.

Zipp also (at least used to) make some rounded plugs that are similar.
Cool. The Zipp may work.
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 01-11-18, 04:26 PM
  #4784  
Baby Puke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kanazawa
Posts: 1,700

Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF4, Intense Pro24 BMX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked 87 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
I’m looking for some decent end plugs for 3T Minstrel Aero Bars. Something of substance and not completely flat and cut off at the end.

I can’t seem to find anything out there but the cheap plastic end caps from 3T or the caps with the hole in them for TT bar shifter cables.

Any ideas?
Profile has them, very cheap. Email them.
Baby Puke is offline  
Old 01-20-18, 06:10 PM
  #4785  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
I'd like to use my HED H3 track clincher front wheel on m TT bike, but I'd like to find some lower profile (thinner?) track bolts that are more aero and don't stick out as far, or perhaps some sort of cover for them. Anyone know if a solution?
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 12:40 PM
  #4786  
MarkWW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485

Bikes: A little of each

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
I'd like to use my HED H3 track clincher front wheel on m TT bike, but I'd like to find some lower profile (thinner?) track bolts that are more aero and don't stick out as far, or perhaps some sort of cover for them. Anyone know if a solution?
Are you looking for track bolts or track nuts? If it's track nuts, I just noticed my zipp nuts are the smallest in my collection. If it uses 5mm bolts, the system that surly uses on their ultra new hubs are the smallest I could find.
MarkWW is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 12:53 PM
  #4787  
krispenhartung
Senior Member
 
krispenhartung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231

Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkWW
Are you looking for track bolts or track nuts? If it's track nuts, I just noticed my zipp nuts are the smallest in my collection. If it uses 5mm bolts, the system that surly uses on their ultra new hubs are the smallest I could find.
track nuts. I'll check out the Zipp..just something not so thick that sticks out less would work. thanks
krispenhartung is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 04:42 PM
  #4788  
MarkWW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485

Bikes: A little of each

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by krispenhartung
track nuts. I'll check out the Zipp..just something not so thick that sticks out less would work. thanks


Here in order are a zipp, dura ace, and formula track nut. Note these are all rear 10x1mm nuts.
MarkWW is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 05:19 PM
  #4789  
Baby Puke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kanazawa
Posts: 1,700

Bikes: Marin Stelvio, Pogliaghi SL, Panasonic NJS, Dolan DF4, Intense Pro24 BMX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked 87 Times in 58 Posts
This here is some serious "marginal gains" stuff...
Baby Puke is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 05:54 PM
  #4790  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by Baby Puke
This here is some serious "marginal gains" stuff...
Seriously.

In the CdA forumula, the A being saved here is literally measured in millimeters..maybe smaller. The percentage gain over the entire system is less than 1/1000th of a percent?

You'd do better by taking a file to parts of your bike

Originally Posted by MarkWW


Here in order are a zipp, dura ace, and formula track nut. Note these are all rear 10x1mm nuts.

I came to write that the Zipp nuts have the most narrow "shoulders". So narrow that they are frustrating to use on Zipp Discs as the 15mm wrench will often hop off when torquing them down.

They are probably difficult to find as Zipp no longer makes wheels that use such nuts.

Dura Ace is your best bet in terms of size, quality, and availability. Given the opporutunity, one should probably replace the nuts on all track wheels with DA nuts.

One note: DA front and DA rear nuts have different thread pitches. BUT, budget hubs will often use the same pitch for both front and rear.

DA nuts are pricey but worth it as the built-in washer on them last much longer than cheaper nuts.
carleton is offline  
Old 01-21-18, 06:35 PM
  #4791  
MarkWW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 485

Bikes: A little of each

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Is it sad that after I wrote my reply, I started thinking about those plastic caps that come on little kids bikes to cover the wheel nuts and whether they are more aero or not?

On a side note, my track nuts that came with my hed wheels look exactly like dura ace nuts. It wouldn't surprise me if they were.
MarkWW is offline  
Old 01-22-18, 12:07 AM
  #4792  
700wheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by carleton
Seriously.

In the CdA forumula, the A being saved here is literally measured in millimeters..maybe smaller. The percentage gain over the entire system is less than 1/1000th of a percent?
.............................
I agree that smaller nuts will have a negligible on CdA. Maybe buy a pair of aero socks that tonight's World Cup commentator mentioned.
I found this site after the race finished https://www.rule28.com/the-science/
However I am somewhat skeptical until I see tests based on a moving leg.
700wheel is offline  
Old 01-22-18, 01:57 AM
  #4793  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
Originally Posted by 700wheel
I agree that smaller nuts will have a negligible on CdA. Maybe buy a pair of aero socks that tonight's World Cup commentator mentioned.
I found this site after the race finished https://www.rule28.com/the-science/
However I am somewhat skeptical until I see tests based on a moving leg.
Or we could save $35 and simply wear no socks at all:



The gains over no socks seem to be within the margin of error of most power meters, +/1 0.5% (1% total error).

At the level at which those ladies and gents race, it makes a difference. But, not sure about for us mere mortals


EDIT:
And, yes, the margins may be even smaller when the leg is chopping up air that has already been chopped by the front wheel, fork, and down tube.
carleton is offline  
Old 01-22-18, 05:30 AM
  #4794  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 37 Posts
aero socks depend a lot on the person wearing them and their pedaling style, and likely how vertical your lower leg stays. Trip socks are the hardest to nail down, because you also have an element of user error when putting them on.
I tested a few pair a while back... trip socks were best (although the rule28's and their clones weren't out yet. Part of the premise behind them is that they remove the human factor and possibility of screwing it up) for me... and it was more than outside the margin of error. However, that's n=1... Wiggins wore trip socks for his hour and no socks for team pursuit... so take from that what you will. A fellow on ST tested shoes, a boa dial "chunky" tri shoe vs. super slick Team GB approved custom Simmons shoes and found almost no difference, yet others found large gains going from boa shoes to lace ups. (again, I imagine a lot of that depends on how flat your foot is through the pedalstroke)

Like everything to do with aerodynamics if you don't test you are really just guessing... you can make educated guesses, but no promises if it worked for 99 people out of 100 that it'll work for you.

*Funny thing I heard, Jim Manton (from Erosports) helped the US Women's Pursuit team for Rio... they tested a LOT of socks. The best ones they found? The socks that Assos had given them to train in. (Not the socks Assos planned as aero socks) The problem was nobody at Assos had kept that "recipe" around, so the women ended up using those stark white socks because that's all they had.

I agree though, the safe/cost effective solution is shaved legs and hidden socks.
Morelock is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 09:28 AM
  #4795  
MrMinty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wrexham, UK
Posts: 90

Bikes: Cannondale Caad8, Claud Butler Roubaix, Raleigh Equipe

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What torque do you do your axle bolts up to on both carbon and alloy? Front and back. I think i have over-tightened mine as some are shearing
MrMinty is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 09:42 AM
  #4796  
taras0000
Lapped 3x
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,723
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 325 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by MrMinty
What torque do you do your axle bolts up to on both carbon and alloy? Front and back. I think i have over-tightened mine as some are shearing
What's shearing?? The track ends? Or are you stripping threads on the axle/nut?
taras0000 is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 10:03 AM
  #4797  
MrMinty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wrexham, UK
Posts: 90

Bikes: Cannondale Caad8, Claud Butler Roubaix, Raleigh Equipe

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It looks to be the track ends, so I think they are over tightened
MrMinty is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 10:33 AM
  #4798  
carleton
Elitist
Thread Starter
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,965
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1386 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 77 Posts
I have some $300 Castelli speed suits from around 2011 that are still in good condition, but they have a slight smell to them. I don't think it's from sweat (although it could be) because I have kits from that era that I wore more often that do not have the smell. It doesn't smell rotten like "pad rot" (a term from my BMX freestyle days when I'd go too long without washing my helmet or pads). It's simply a slight unfriendly odor when you get within a few inches of the speed suit.

Any idea how I can preferably neutralize this or at least mask it?
carleton is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 11:05 AM
  #4799  
Morelock
Senior Member
 
Morelock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 644
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 37 Posts
I always wash mine with head & shoulders and lukewarm'ish water and hang dry. Mine seem to stay smell free. (or I'm used to it...)

Failing that/quick fix... maybe those febreeze sprayers? Or some AXE if you want to attract all the ladies.
Morelock is offline  
Old 02-05-18, 11:08 AM
  #4800  
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,586

Bikes: yes

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times in 35 Posts
put it in a bag with a bunch of baking soda, shake the bag up, and then let it sit for several days
then dump out the baking soda, then wash it with detergent and more baking soda
dry it in the dryer
if the smell persists, just febreeze it every time you wear it to a party
queerpunk is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.