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Old 02-06-18, 08:31 PM
  #4826  
Baby Puke
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Well, if Contador is using the fixed cleats, then who am I ...
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Old 02-06-18, 08:49 PM
  #4827  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Float. I had this discussion with my bike fitter who is very very good with all this stuff when I turned up for my custom frame fit with fixed cleats. Basically he said you don't use fixed unless you have your position totally and utterly dialed in. Otherwise fixed will cause you more problems physically than they're worth. I guess sprinters aren't really on the bike long enough to see too much damage from their use. I did notice some minor knee discomfort disappear once I went to float vs fixed on my road shoes after that discussion
i by and large agree. my entry in this conversation is this: it depends on how much of The Princess And The Pea you are. I know that if I used no-float cleats, I'd constantly be tinkering with my cleat position and it would make me unhappy. Whereas with cleats with float, it's a lot easier to get it in the ballpark.

I don't move my feet when I'm clipped in - I don't really take advantage of the float. It's not like it leaves you feeling all loosey-goosey. But if gives you some wiggle room to find that perfect foot/knee/hip position in your stroke.
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Old 02-06-18, 09:24 PM
  #4828  
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I want to clarify.

My points are basically:

- At the end of the day, it's a personal preference. Whatever works for you and gives you confidence.
- 0-float cleats aren't more dangerous. They simply provide fewer foot position options.
- Improperly adjusted cleats of varying degrees of float may cause injury.
- I believe that wide float ranges simply allow for riders/fitters to get a cleat in the general vicinity of the best position and let the rider settle in from there. It literally provides wiggle room.
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Old 02-07-18, 12:40 AM
  #4829  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Well, if Contador is using the fixed cleats, then who am I ...
...to not used fixed cleats and eat clenbuterol tainted meat.
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Old 02-07-18, 01:06 AM
  #4830  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
...to not used fixed cleats and eat clenbuterol tainted meat.
Precisely!
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Old 02-07-18, 05:39 AM
  #4831  
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The Vision and Rotor cranks were at the top of my shortlist, so thanks

I'm building a new A bike, so I need new cranks...I'm not thinking of 'upgrading' my Omnium cranks on my B bike.
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Old 02-07-18, 05:52 AM
  #4832  
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I always ride red shimano cleats. Easy way to get them "right" is to jump on the trainer with the cleats only semi-snugged down. (enough that they don't freely move, but that there is still the possibility of movement in them.) Then spin for about 10-15 minutes. Your foot will find where it wants to be... then have significant other/friend/somebody take a silver sharpie and mark where the cleats end up. Get off and line them back up, tighten down.

We used to fit people's cleats using the RAD cleat alignment system... then we realized this method did the same thing with less expensive equipment.

I moved to Speedplay aero zero's recently... still having a hard time with the inherent float in them (even when the bolts are tightened down to 0 float, they still move way more than my shimanos) and they are much more annoying to set up.

As for aero cranks... at low yaw like you see on track, there likely isn't much measurable benefit. The cheaper option that allows you to run a wider (arguably nicer) variety of cranks is just to buy some aero chainrings.
Zen/FSA/Aerocoach/etc aero rings on my SRM science is basically a flat piece, and I don't have to put up with a Rotor/FSA crank/bb
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Old 02-08-18, 11:34 PM
  #4833  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Float. I had this discussion with my bike fitter who is very very good with all this stuff when I turned up for my custom frame fit with fixed cleats.
Brawlo, are you a sprinter? Is your fitter familiar with the needs of track sprinters? How are standing starts with the float for you?
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Old 02-08-18, 11:37 PM
  #4834  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
i by and large agree. my entry in this conversation is this: it depends on how much of The Princess And The Pea you are. I know that if I used no-float cleats, I'd constantly be tinkering with my cleat position and it would make me unhappy. Whereas with cleats with float, it's a lot easier to get it in the ballpark.

I don't move my feet when I'm clipped in - I don't really take advantage of the float. It's not like it leaves you feeling all loosey-goosey. But if gives you some wiggle room to find that perfect foot/knee/hip position in your stroke.
This is kinda what I'm wondering about. More backstory, I had a knee injury that required surgery when I was a junior and since then the corresponding foot is never completely happy with whatever position it's locked into. I'm wondering if float might help this foot find it's ideal position, and I'm also wondering if there is really just one perfect position or for a semi-wonky leg.
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Old 02-09-18, 12:11 AM
  #4835  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Brawlo, are you a sprinter? Is your fitter familiar with the needs of track sprinters? How are standing starts with the float for you?
My fitter is very familiar with the requirements of a sprinter and was a high level (enduro) track racer in his day. Standing starts with the float are absolutely fine. I have never ever pulled a foot. That includes countless bike standing starts in racing and training before I adopted straps. That also includes thousands of trainer starts with a Kurt Kinetic and more recently a Kickr. When I was fitted for my custom frame, the fitter used the Retul system. You can see in real time the various movements and tracking that body parts take as you pedal. My fitter is of the opinion (very well backed by science and experience) that the only time a fixed cleat should be used is when the position is perfectly dialed in, and only then if the rider's pedaling action will accommodate the fixed position via a very linear and smooth action.

I'm a relative gumby in this game. I believe everyone is different and I am just passing on the wisdom of someone that has a mountain of experience more than me.
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Old 02-09-18, 05:44 AM
  #4836  
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Cool, great info, thanks Brawlo!
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Old 02-10-18, 06:44 AM
  #4837  
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If the spider on the Rotorís is bolted on like their road cranks then Iíd put that purely down to user error and not tightening the bolt enough.
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Old 02-10-18, 10:14 AM
  #4838  
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Still worthy of consideration as a potential weak spot in the crankset either way if youíre thinking about a purchase, the torque being thrown down by some of the big guys is going to find any weak link pretty quick!
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Old 02-10-18, 10:57 AM
  #4839  
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Originally Posted by Monkeyfudger View Post
If the spider on the Rotorís is bolted on like their road cranks then Iíd put that purely down to user error and not tightening the bolt enough.
I have a Rotor/P2Max Track crank (uses the Road 3D arms). The Spider fits over a spline on the drive side arm and is held in place by a lock ring. Common assembly method used on other cranks, for example Cannondale Hollowgram.
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Old 02-10-18, 11:08 AM
  #4840  
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Yeah Iíve got a couple on different road bikes, weirdly enough with P2M as well

Iíve always been curious whether the axle is the same length as the road cranks as the online blurb seems to suggest that itís the BB thatís track specific? Have you ever compared it to a road crankset?
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Old 02-10-18, 11:58 AM
  #4841  
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Sorry...search function doesnít really like me...

Is anyone using the TA Specialties track rings? I fancy just trying to calm my cadence down half a click, are these ok or should I pony up to a Campag chain ring for too much more?

Wiggle | TA 144 PCD Shimano/Campag Track Chainring (50-52T) | Chainrings
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Old 02-10-18, 01:22 PM
  #4842  
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I haven't heard anything bad about the TA rings. I think I might have had one back in the day.
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Old 02-11-18, 08:44 AM
  #4843  
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Originally Posted by Monkeyfudger View Post
Yeah Iíve got a couple on different road bikes, weirdly enough with P2M as well

Iíve always been curious whether the axle is the same length as the road cranks as the online blurb seems to suggest that itís the BB thatís track specific? Have you ever compared it to a road crankset?
It's the only 3D crank I've owned so I don't really have a comparison point. My understanding was that P2M based this on the road crank. I don't think it's up on their site any longer but in the specs they stated that this had the wider Road Q-Factor not the track. I use a Rotor BB1 (Road) bottom bracket.

It's a very consistent meter, gives me numbers that make sense compared to the SRM on my Road bike. But it has a flaw. There is a huge (2 sec +) delay in the rpm. It's very noticeable when doing accelerations, peak rpm will show up 2 to 3 data blocks after peak speed. I discussed this with P2M & it has to do with how they handle signal from the accelerometer used for rpm. Not an issue for enduro work but for a sprinter looking at peaks or acceleration it might be problematic.

I recall the story mentioned about the exploding crank, I think it was @Morelock ?
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Old 02-11-18, 11:14 AM
  #4844  
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not me, I've yet to have the pleasure of an exploding crank yet

my stages is the same way with the delay. When I hooked it up with my (wired) SRM together, it was like night and day difference.
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Old 02-11-18, 01:48 PM
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Video Cinema-Like Goggles for Rouvy, BKOOL, ZWIFT, etc

Is anyone using video goggles while on their trainers with Rouvy, BKOOL, or ZWIFT? I see there is now an explosion of them on the market, from $125-$800. I'm not particularly interested in the 3D features, but basically replacing my flat screen monitor in front of me with goggles, so 2D is fine. It's basically what they call the cinema movie experience via the goggles. I am really interested in going this direction, vs. buying a 100" flatscreen monitor just for bike training. I also see there are a ton of these out there that don't require putting your phone inside of them...that's the kind I'm looking for. I'm seeing several that would work, and do not require proprietary software, and basically will connect to your phone or computer via HDMI.

Thoughts? Experiences? Would be super fun with BKOOL's simulated velodromes.
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Old 02-11-18, 02:25 PM
  #4846  
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Surely it would get far too hot - it would be sealed to face so no airflow and having screens close making it even hotter. Im a pretty heavy sweater when exercising and it would take about only a couple of minutes for sweat to start dripping in my eyes - but i wouldnt be able to wipe it away because the goggles are there. Sounds quite unpleasant!
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Old 02-11-18, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zizou View Post
Surely it would get far too hot - it would be sealed to face so no airflow and having screens close making it even hotter. Im a pretty heavy sweater when exercising and it would take about only a couple of minutes for sweat to start dripping in my eyes - but i wouldnt be able to wipe it away because the goggles are there. Sounds quite unpleasant!
The sweat factor would definitely be a factor. I supposed it depends on how narrow the inside eye pieces are...given your eyeballs don't sweat, smaller pieces may not be a problem. I'd say the goggles out there that look more like sun glasses, vs. snorkeling goggles would be better.
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Old 02-11-18, 09:38 PM
  #4848  
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Fuji Track Pro 2009 Seat Mast

Hey guys, I have a fuji track pro 2009 and my seat mast has been broken for a while now and I have searched far and wide for one. No one seems to have one ANYwhere. If there is anything that might work for it please let me know ASAP and I am willing to also use a regular aero seat post if there is one that fits for the FTP 09. Thanks, Aiden
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Old 02-11-18, 10:52 PM
  #4849  
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Originally Posted by fixedmystic View Post
Hey guys, I have a fuji track pro 2009 and my seat mast has been broken for a while now and I have searched far and wide for one. No one seems to have one ANYwhere. If there is anything that might work for it please let me know ASAP and I am willing to also use a regular aero seat post if there is one that fits for the FTP 09. Thanks, Aiden
Well, if your bike has a SEAT MAST, then you won't be able to use a seat post. Is it the mast that is broken, or just the topper?
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Old 02-11-18, 10:57 PM
  #4850  
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Originally Posted by krispenhartung View Post
...It's basically what they call the cinema movie experience via the goggles. I am really interested in going this direction, vs. buying a 100" flatscreen monitor just for bike training...
Surely you haven't narrowed your options down to just these two

You don't have to buy everything they tell you to buy


Originally Posted by fixedmystic View Post
Hey guys, I have a fuji track pro 2009 and my seat mast has been broken for a while now and I have searched far and wide for one. No one seems to have one ANYwhere. If there is anything that might work for it please let me know ASAP and I am willing to also use a regular aero seat post if there is one that fits for the FTP 09. Thanks, Aiden
That frame is 9 years old and it didn't have a great seat post/mast system to begin with.

Might I suggest that you cut your losses and simply look for a modern frame, preferably one that uses a standard round seatpost that you can get from a local shop for this very reason. I know what it's like to hunt for things like this and it usually ends in frustration.
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