Doohickie

Good Lord, no.

Doohickie

I've met some new cycling people lately and to be honest I'm shocked at how safe they think MUPs are compared to suburban neighborhood street riding. When people ask where I ride and I say all over, and they respond by saying, "I ride only on the trails." I write them off as a potential riding buddy.

Doohickie

A lot of our MUPs are gravel trails.

Doohickie

So you stopped dead in the path when half of it was already blocked, without checking for other traffic? Sounds like you're part of the problem, my friend.

Doohickie

It's called the velodrome. Just make sure you watch out for the other cyclists.

Doohickie

Sitting on your couch isn't safe.

igosolo

"On your left" means very different things to different people. Try it with a big group of pedestrians on the MUP. Some go diving to the right, some left, some freeze like a deer in headlights and others are oblivious you said anything at all, Might as well shout "grenade" as you get the same effect. I avoid the MUP and rarely ride it on the weekends. On the rare ride where I do, it means slow down and enjoy the scenery more that day. And when I pass, if I have a wide berth, I don't say a word as it is safer for everyone in my opinion. If I have to say something, I am totally ready to come to a dead stop.

DrIsotope

So are the "river" trails in Southern California (SART, SGRT, LART) unique to SoCal? There are long stretches marked BIKES ONLY in big white letters. I can go 10 miles and not see anyone on foot. Sure, the closer you get to the beach, more people. But nothing like I'm seeing in posted images-- only The Strand has that kind of density, and it's basically a paved boardwalk following the coastline, with countless signs yelling at everyone about the speed limit-- which is like 5mph. Inland (at least) what we have of MUPs are very short in length, and sparsely populated. Especially in the summer. Not a lot of joggers and dog walkers when it's 103º.

I love the SART. I'm out there at the very least once a week. Not a lot of people out here, I must say:

Steeljag

banerjek

Same schtick in Oregon.

Unfortunately, the most vocal elements of our local (Portland) cycling community are vehemently opposed to any suggestion that cyclists try to be visible, observe basic common sense practices, or pay attention for that matter. I see them get into trouble all the time because they do suicidal things such as passing on the right of vehicles that clearly are about to or even in the process of turning

I won't ride our local paths. My general feeling is that some measures intended to make cyclists safer have the opposite effect.

surak

That's an overgeneralization.

Man killed while biking on Rainier Ave, suspect arrested. RIP Alex Hayden

I rode on Rainier Ave for the first and last time a couple weeks ago. There's a stretch without a bike lane, but even the part in the bike lane felt dangerous and drivers whizzed by without giving a crap about 3-ft. Even my trip log showed I sped up considerably over pace to get the hell out of there.

redlude97

you've been lucky so far then. Ive lived and commuted to and from various parts of the city and people certainly don't follow the rules in seattle. I currently commute 17 miles each way into and out of the city on a mix of MUP, bike lanes, and mixing it up with traffic in the city, and I have a close call at least a few times a week. Lights and bright clothes don't do **** when they aren't even looking for you in the first place or see you as an obstruction to them getting where they need to go. I've been clipped by people on their phones, left hooked with bright lights on and run off the road because I wasnt staying far enough towards the shoulder even though I was going the speed limit. I still choose to ride almost everywhere I go and train on the roads but I'm aware of the hazards and accept them as a part of life

Bah Humbug

Why do you think there's a place where you can just ride with reckless abandon? You basically can't do that anywhere in a car, either. You shouldn't do that anywhere while walking. Yes, you have to be alert and ride at a speed appropriate for conditions wherever you ride.

However, it's perfectly safe to ride on the right roads, for the most part. Sidewalks suck. The MUP is another sidewalk, only it doesn't go along a street. You can ride there, but it's not a suitable training ground.

The only places you can really just go crazy are velodromes, veloways, and racetracks (when you can get on one).

banerjek

Conditions vary dramatically, but truly close calls (not the same as close pass) should be super rare. If they're not, it's a sign something isn't dialed in for the conditions at hand. I've experienced significant variability in riding conditions including an > 40 mile RT commute for over 10 years with only about 4 of those miles with any kind of bike path and could literally go months without seeing another cyclist (i.e. drivers not accustomed to working with cyclists). What works in one situation won't necessarily work in another, but staying out of trouble year after year takes a lot more than luck.

Aubergine 

kbarch

Yeah, MUPs can be pretty disorderly, kind of the Wild West. Maybe eventually more people will learn how to behave on them, but they have to become either more dense or more well-patrolled in order for that to happen any time soon.

On my short little Citibike commutes between the Port Authority and office, I'll take it easy and just stick to the protected bike lanes. Whenever other cyclists go zipping past, I want to tell them to ride in the traffic lane. I scrupulously avoid those bike lanes when I want to go fast - its quite easy and comfortable to keep up with traffic on the avenues, even on Citibike - and it feels a heck of a lot safer than trying to make similar speed in the bike lane.

redlude97

Conditions do vary greatly. When I say close call I mean I have to take a very direct action to avoid a collision when I have the right of way, not truly close calls. I've actually modified my commute to be longer because its safer. The most direct "bike friendly" route still results in too many poorly laid out points of conflict with cars in seattle, and things have gotten significantly worse in the past 5 years as traffic has gotten exponentially worse and drivers are getting more aggressive and impatient as well as distracted. With over 10,000 miles commuting I think I've been lucky and smart, knowing others with a quarter of the mileage who have been involved in worse. Haven't been carted off in an ambulance yet riding or racing, knock on wood.

Carbonfiberboy 

I might point out that I sometimes have to take direct action to avoid an accident in my car. Which doesn't mean I've ever had an auto accident - I haven't - but it's because I drive and ride like I'm piloting, with constant concentration on my surroundings and on my exact position, etc. Stuff happens. OTOH, I've never had a MUP accident either. Statistically there are more bike accidents per mile on MUPS, but fewer fatalities than on the road. I always try to remember that one injury can spoil my whole season, and I don't have that many left.

toast3d

Yes. There is a place.

Seattle Forrest

Then I misunderstood you at first. Sorry. This ^ is good advice.

bikecrate

That's true, not uncommon to hear of SUV's plowing into house...at least in FL.

indyfabz

I was sitting in my office chair yesterday when a giant cockroach fell out of HVAC vent in the ceiling and nearly landed on me.

WhyFi

This reminds me that I need one of these T-shirts -

Maelochs

I have decades of urban and suburban commuting experience …. most of it in cities judged to be the most deadly for cyclists, much of it before there were bike lanes.

Close calls are often the cyclist not riding sufficiently defensively. When you say do you mean that if you rode into the path of a car it might hit you? Do you mean a car trying to sneak through a light? Did the driver see you?

Most drivers do Not want to hit cyclists … they are just clueless and inattentive. I find that slowing down, using hand signals, covering and uncovering my headlight (so ti flashes) or waggling the light all help. I also, from years of experience, know where not to go.

“Right of Way” is a neat concept … which has nothing to do with surviving on the road.

If you have survived commuting for 10,000 miles and have so many close calls, I’d say … well I won’t tell you a thing. In your case, my advice to myself was to be more defensive. Now I rarely have issues …. Drivers don’t always act right, but they rarely surprise me.

As CF-boy notes: it is possible we notice stuff more on a bike because we feel more vulnerable … or maybe we don’t yield “right-of-way” because we “deserve” it … but cars always win that fight.

I find that the only times I have “disagreements” with cars is when I take the lane and they get impatient, and go into oncoming traffic to pass me, or when I insist on right of way even when I see they plan to go … and I only do that when I am ready to bail out and have escape routes.
See … older and wiser than I.

The deal is this: Nowhere is safe, unless you actually live where there are bike-only paths … and even then you could meet someone salmoning, or people coming around a corner three-wide …. There is some local trails, and whether or not they are “bikes-only/” a blind corner is a blind corner. I need to slow down.

I find—as do you—that riding on roads is a safe and reasonable activity. After all, ten thousand miles of commuting … it isn’t like you don’t know how to manage.

If your main complaint is that there are idiots everywhere … yeah, true. Go find a solution to That and you deserve ten Nobel Prizes.

Mainly I try not to add to the number of active idiots … but as you can tell form some of my posts, my success rate is nothing to brag about.

Seattle Forrest

Sammamish River Trail, on the east side of our metropolis, is a standard MUP.

You could rename at least part of our Iron Horse Trail the Snoqualmie River Trail, it's a rail trail open to all user types. Some parts of the trail are used for rock climbing, eg there are crags next to the trail and much of the trail space is used by a belayer and gear. I can't think of anything like you describe here. We have areas of trails that are mostly de facto bike trails because they're so remote, but that's a different thing, and not especially common.