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Track cycling - Bike, Gearing, Kit advice please 😊

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Track cycling - Bike, Gearing, Kit advice please 😊

Old 12-26-18, 01:45 PM
  #1  
ChrisRob01
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Track cycling - Bike, Gearing, Kit advice please 😊

Hi Guys
Thanks for your advice in the last 2 posts i’ve done 😊
Based on the guidance i’ve just got on with it and got a basic entry level road bike and have just completed my acccredittaion.
Im now doing SQT’s with a sprint focus and turbo and road sessions (them hills omg)
I’ve lost weight, got stronger and made some good progress in the gym and now up to 1400 watts and 200rpm spinning out on a lower gear.
I have been using the track bikes you hire that have an 86” and an planning to get a track bike.
So I wanted to ask any guidance on a track bike for a newby sprinter? I’ve been reccomend Dolan pre cursa aluminum track bike
Also what gearing would you reccomend getting on it?
As mentioned I raced at a good level in bmx before and i’m pretty strong (180kg-400Ib full squat) @ 90kg
Also what cleats would you reccomend? Ones with no movement or ones with 6 degrees of movement?
Thanks in advance
Loving this new cycling journey 😊
Chris
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Old 12-26-18, 08:10 PM
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Hi. Have you read through this thread?

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...ack-racer.html

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Old 12-27-18, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Hi. Have you read through this thread
Hi Carleton, yes i’ve now seen this and had a good read through, thanks 👍

This has answered most of my questions, but I just wanted to ask your view on gearings based on your experience.

My strength and power is my best point and fitness worst. Obviously i’m working on it and hope to improve it a lot.

Ive just used the 86” club bikes and spin them quite easy and get tired quite quickly.

What gearing would you recommend when i buy my first track bike and should I have slightly bigger based on my strength and lack of fitness?

Thanks

Chris

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Old 12-27-18, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Hi Carleton, yes i’ve now seen this and had a good read through, thanks 👍

This has answered most of my questions, but I just wanted to ask your view on gearings based on your experience.

My strength and power is my best point and fitness worst. Obviously i’m working on it and hope to improve it a lot.

Ive just used the 86” club bikes and spin them quite easy and get tired quite quickly.

What gearing would you recommend when i buy my first track bike and should I have slightly bigger based on my strength and lack of fitness?

Thanks

Chris

Gearing is literally covered in the first post in that thread :-/
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Old 12-27-18, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post
……………………………..
What gearing would you recommend when i buy my first track bike and should I have slightly bigger based on my strength and lack of fitness?...……………………
You will need a variety of gears for warm up, training, and racing. To begin with consider buying 3 sprockets that envelope your 86" experience. Eventually you will need a few chain rings and several sprockets.

Also only buy a track bike with a 144 BCD chain ring and 1/8" chain.
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Old 12-27-18, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Hi Carleton, yes i’ve now seen this and had a good read through, thanks 👍

This has answered most of my questions, but I just wanted to ask your view on gearings based on your experience.

My strength and power is my best point and fitness worst. Obviously i’m working on it and hope to improve it a lot.

Ive just used the 86” club bikes and spin them quite easy and get tired quite quickly.

What gearing would you recommend when i buy my first track bike and should I have slightly bigger based on my strength and lack of fitness?

Thanks

Chris

Given your strength, I would look at beginning with 90-92” or 51-50/15. Work on that gearing. You quite easily have the strength to push it and spend some time develping the fitness and power to push high speeds for longer periods. It is worth noting that despite the big gear trend, the proper fast big gear riders are also very fast on much smaller gears. Also do not underestimate the role of fitness. Even pure sprinting requires quite a high level of fitness at higher levels. It’s no good ripping out great F200 times if you can’t make it to the end of a sprint competition
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Old 12-28-18, 03:39 AM
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^^ as above. And some additional advice.

Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Given your strength, I would look at beginning with 90-92” or 51-50/15. Work on that gearing.
I thought I'd weigh in also as that Protips thread has some very good advices - and you should read it - but it sounds like with that sort of a squat (to depth, right? safely? You've read Starting Strength, right?) you should eventually be riding some properly-big gears once you start learning and getting into track racing properly...

Gears:
By all means start with a 90-92" for outdoor club racing at beginner level - but 180kg is getting up to be a very decent squat for a bike rider assuming you can still do leg speed too - and most of us sprinters are riding bigger gears now, so you if you pursue sprinting seriously you may need to graduate to larger gears in the future than anyone here seems likely to advise. But you still need to train leg speed, and learn trackcraft in slower club-level races first, so something *between 92-98"* is not at all a bad place to start for club racing and should cover most scenarios as beginner to intermediate.

For reference for the future, as an formerly-decent-athlete now doing this for fun, I'm sprinting on 108-117" gears these days. 117 is still too big for me, but 112 is starting to seem about right. But I'm still aiming to get them up to 125+ cadence for a flying 200 - so like others will probably tell you, watch the cadence, pick your gear based on what's realistic for you on the day.

[NB - We used to actually sprint on 93-94" back in the day (early 2000s, ahem) but times have changed. Most sprinters are aiming to max out at a bit over 130 rpm cadence, not 160 like we used to... this is because most people hit max power lower RPMs than we used to think, and it saves some neuromuscular capacity, assuming you can still accellerate it up to speed quickly enough. This does not mean you should not train on smaller gears though. Track is still about leg speed. (Basically - follow the advice in the Protips thread, print yourself a gear chart and start buying a few chainrings and cogs once you get out there and get ain idea what you need - and consider those 13 and a 12 tooth cogs for the future if you're turning into a sprinter or even planning to be a fast enduro...).

Bike
If you haven't had a bike fit, consider one. At a minimum, get an experienced track coach to look you over, but for track you are likely to want your saddle to be as close to the BB as is UCI legal (5cm behind for most people), and then adjust the height to get the right amount of extension on your leg. There's a lot that goes into this, so best not to advise over a forum, but many people start in their road position, which is a good starting point, but typically too far back and too low to be optimal for track. Good track positions for fit, flexible people without injuries or weird morphology are *usually* a little higher, and a little farther forward.

Are you in the UK looking at Dolans? Different good bike options are common in different countries. Dolans are perfectly good bikes to start out on and pretty common in the UK. I have a similar Dolan stored at my mother in law's garage just in case I feel like doing track sessions when I'm in Wales

Assuming you get a proper track frame that fits you, *the wheels and tyres will matter more than the frame* for speed, and you can always upgrade these later. Again look at that Protips thread. NB - sooner or later *you will probably need to change the bars, and the stem to get any stock bike to fit you*, so bear that in mind. If it's one of the larger Dolan alloy frames, they tend to have a high head tube so bear this in mind - you'll almost definitely need to get lower to get in a good position, so you may need to get a good stiff stem with some drop like a Deda Pista, and maybe some non-compact drop bars like Alpinas (also from Dolan) in order to get a low-enough position (I can vouch that this is the case for the XL Pre Cursa, and probably the large too).

Again, get an experienced track coach to have a look over your position.

A good alloy track frame like the Dolan can take you up to national level in theory, but for regional and national championship races you'll want to use a rear disc, and a front trispoke/Zipp/Mavic Io - which maybe you can borrow (or rent) once you have track mates/coach. There are plenty of decent alloy bikes. For the UK, the PlanetX carbon frames are also sharply-priced new and come up used from time to time at good prices. *Make sure you get a frame with a proper track geometry* - higher BB height, steeper angles. I'd personally avoid Specialised Langster and the new Cannondale track for that reason, as (among others) they have a road-adapted geometry to appease the fixie crowd (although they are still raceable on the track and not terrible... but if you have a choice get a proper track geo...). That said, I know decent juniors who race on Langsters.

Pedals -
Get something you can't clip out of, and get track straps if you're sprinting. You can transfer your road pedals for now if you have them. Use the fixed cleats, not floating, for track. They clip out less easily. Shimano Ultegra or Dura ace with the tension cranked to max are the standard, Keywins are good with track pin+ strap, or even the newer Looks. I ride Shimano SPD-Rs which are impossible to unclip, but I'm showing my age as they don't make them anymore...

Training
You didn't ask, but you might have some potential there, sooo.... Get advice from your good local coaches on riding the track, as there is a general learning curve, and also pay attention to your top local sprinters.

And as a likely-sprinter you should have a look at the things on UpUpUp as well... ignore the advice on it about single-leg dynamic gym work - just do it with two legs - but otherwise it's still mostly pretty current...

It won't let me post this as a URL because I'm such a lurker but it's at: upupup.aboc dot com dot au

Basically, once you know how to ride the track, sprint training is gym (Starting Strength) + short sprints + rest. But as a new track rider, you should get in all the track racing that you can, of all distances, and get a good coach

Good luck matey. Go fast, stay rubber-side down.
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Old 12-28-18, 03:52 AM
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Just for info, Dolan are doing there normal ‘10% off everything’ Xmas sale atm, so you could pick up a complete TC1 for around £630
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Old 12-28-18, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
You will need a variety of gears for warm up, training, and racing. To begin with consider buying 3 sprockets that envelope your 86" experience. Eventually you will need a few chain rings and several sprockets.

Also only buy a track bike with a 144 BCD chain ring and 1/8" chain.
thanks appreciate the advice 👍
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Old 12-28-18, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post


Given your strength, I would look at beginning with 90-92” or 51-50/15. Work on that gearing. You quite easily have the strength to push it and spend some time develping the fitness and power to push high speeds for longer periods. It is worth noting that despite the big gear trend, the proper fast big gear riders are also very fast on much smaller gears. Also do not underestimate the role of fitness. Even pure sprinting requires quite a high level of fitness at higher levels. It’s no good ripping out great F200 times if you can’t make it to the end of a sprint competition
thanks very much and great advice, I will definitely get on the fitness element 👍
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Old 12-28-18, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post
Just for info, Dolan are doing there normal ‘10% off everything’ Xmas sale atm, so you could pick up a complete TC1 for around £630

Thanks taking a look now 😊
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Old 12-28-18, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post
I thought I'd weigh in also as that Protips thread has some very good advices - and you should read it - but it sounds like with that sort of a squat (to depth, right? safely? You've read Starting Strength, right?) you should eventually be riding some properly-big gears once you start learning and getting into track racing properly...

Gears:
By all means start with a 90-92" for outdoor club racing at beginner level - but 180kg is getting up to be a very decent squat for a bike rider assuming you can still do leg speed too - and most of us sprinters are riding bigger gears now, so you if you pursue sprinting seriously you may need to graduate to larger gears in the future than anyone here seems likely to advise. But you still need to train leg speed, and learn trackcraft in slower club-level races first, so something *between 92-98"* is not at all a bad place to start for club racing and should cover most scenarios as beginner to intermediate.

For reference for the future, as an formerly-decent-athlete now doing this for fun, I'm sprinting on 108-117" gears these days. 117 is still too big for me, but 112 is starting to seem about right. But I'm still aiming to get them up to 125+ cadence for a flying 200 - so like others will probably tell you, watch the cadence, pick your gear based on what's realistic for you on the day.

[NB - We used to actually sprint on 93-94" back in the day (early 2000s, ahem) but times have changed. Most sprinters are aiming to max out at a bit over 130 rpm cadence, not 160 like we used to... this is because most people hit max power lower RPMs than we used to think, and it saves some neuromuscular capacity, assuming you can still accellerate it up to speed quickly enough. This does not mean you should not train on smaller gears though. Track is still about leg speed. (Basically - follow the advice in the Protips thread, print yourself a gear chart and start buying a few chainrings and cogs once you get out there and get ain idea what you need - and consider those 13 and a 12 tooth cogs for the future if you're turning into a sprinter or even planning to be a fast enduro...).

Bike
If you haven't had a bike fit, consider one. At a minimum, get an experienced track coach to look you over, but for track you are likely to want your saddle to be as close to the BB as is UCI legal (5cm behind for most people), and then adjust the height to get the right amount of extension on your leg. There's a lot that goes into this, so best not to advise over a forum, but many people start in their road position, which is a good starting point, but typically too far back and too low to be optimal for track. Good track positions for fit, flexible people without injuries or weird morphology are *usually* a little higher, and a little farther forward.

Are you in the UK looking at Dolans? Different good bike options are common in different countries. Dolans are perfectly good bikes to start out on and pretty common in the UK. I have a similar Dolan stored at my mother in law's garage just in case I feel like doing track sessions when I'm in Wales

Assuming you get a proper track frame that fits you, *the wheels and tyres will matter more than the frame* for speed, and you can always upgrade these later. Again look at that Protips thread. NB - sooner or later *you will probably need to change the bars, and the stem to get any stock bike to fit you*, so bear that in mind. If it's one of the larger Dolan alloy frames, they tend to have a high head tube so bear this in mind - you'll almost definitely need to get lower to get in a good position, so you may need to get a good stiff stem with some drop like a Deda Pista, and maybe some non-compact drop bars like Alpinas (also from Dolan) in order to get a low-enough position (I can vouch that this is the case for the XL Pre Cursa, and probably the large too).

Again, get an experienced track coach to have a look over your position.

A good alloy track frame like the Dolan can take you up to national level in theory, but for regional and national championship races you'll want to use a rear disc, and a front trispoke/Zipp/Mavic Io - which maybe you can borrow (or rent) once you have track mates/coach. There are plenty of decent alloy bikes. For the UK, the PlanetX carbon frames are also sharply-priced new and come up used from time to time at good prices. *Make sure you get a frame with a proper track geometry* - higher BB height, steeper angles. I'd personally avoid Specialised Langster and the new Cannondale track for that reason, as (among others) they have a road-adapted geometry to appease the fixie crowd (although they are still raceable on the track and not terrible... but if you have a choice get a proper track geo...). That said, I know decent juniors who race on Langsters.

Pedals -
Get something you can't clip out of, and get track straps if you're sprinting. You can transfer your road pedals for now if you have them. Use the fixed cleats, not floating, for track. They clip out less easily. Shimano Ultegra or Dura ace with the tension cranked to max are the standard, Keywins are good with track pin+ strap, or even the newer Looks. I ride Shimano SPD-Rs which are impossible to unclip, but I'm showing my age as they don't make them anymore...

Training
You didn't ask, but you might have some potential there, sooo.... Get advice from your good local coaches on riding the track, as there is a general learning curve, and also pay attention to your top local sprinters.

And as a likely-sprinter you should have a look at the things on UpUpUp as well... ignore the advice on it about single-leg dynamic gym work - just do it with two legs - but otherwise it's still mostly pretty current...

It won't let me post this as a URL because I'm such a lurker but it's at: upupup.aboc dot com dot au

Basically, once you know how to ride the track, sprint training is gym (Starting Strength) + short sprints + rest. But as a new track rider, you should get in all the track racing that you can, of all distances, and get a good coach

Good luck matey. Go fast, stay rubber-side down.
Thanks very much for taking the time to post such a detailed response!

I’m very grateful 👍

Yes I squat to full depth, I have done 200 before and hope to get back to that level.

Ive still got decent rpm, did a 200rpm on the watt bike, I think bmx background has helped with that.

My conditioning is my main issue, which i’m working on.

Thanks for the gear advice, I will definitely look at mid 90’s as a starter on that basis.

Yes I am looking at Dolan and in the UK, do you know if you need to go to the showroom for a bike fitting?

Getting my pedals and shoes tomorrow from Evans

thanks for the link 😁

Great resource

Really appreciate the help

Cant wait to push a big gear 😊
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Old 12-28-18, 04:42 PM
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Great info from Rico and others above.

Chris, a track racing “career” (even for us local guys) is a long road. You’ll have a lot of time and opportunities to experiment...and you should definitely experiment. Don’t sweat the details like gearing and whether you are ready for big gears. That’s like a new basketball player talking about “which dunks should I practice?”. There is so much before the fine tuning of personal gear options come into play. At this point, big gears may actually make you slower and less competitive in your local beginner races (scratch, points, miss-n-out, time trials, etc), which can be demoralizing.

Never underestimate how good winning a beginner 5 lap scratch feels for a new racer. Feels damn good!!

I suggest that you cut your teeth on “normal” gears then move to big gears when the time is right.

The number 1 thing that will make you faster faster is simply showing up at the track and riding and racing your bike as much as possible. When you aren’t doing that, watch the other races going on. Help out keeping score. Learn how to ring the bell. I bet that advice would hold up for a new BMX racer, too
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Old 12-28-18, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Don’t sweat the details like gearing and whether you are ready for big gears. That’s like a new basketball player talking about “which dunks should I practice?”

I suggest that you cut your teeth on “normal” gears then move to big gears when the time is right.

The number 1 thing that will make you faster faster is simply showing up at the track and riding and racing your bike as much as possible.
^^ This. Haha Love the analogy...

My primary thought was that if OP is in the UK, the 'local' track might well be a fast indoor one like Manchester, Newport (Geraint Thomas National Velodrome of Wales, ahem...), Hoy, or Lee Valley, etc... which probably means at least 2" or even 4" bigger gears are probably appropriate for the boards vs the average outdoor track. And especially if you're that strong and still have some BMX speed, and you might just be a decent sprinter which means future gears will possibly be larger again. Once you can ride the track well...

Do experiment as Carleton says, and race as much as you can. 95-ish sounds like a very good starting point for most club level racing.

Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Yes I am looking at Dolan and in the UK, do you know if you need to go to the showroom for a bike fitting?

Getting my pedals and shoes tomorrow from Evans
No worries, glad to hear you're enjoying track

No idea about the Dolan showroom as I haven't been, but if you can go, I reckon do... they can probably help with the fitting, especially if they're trackies, and would be worth it if you can try out the different sizes/models.

I note that Dolan still offers customisation of stem size and some components on the website when you buy, so that might help with getting the sizing close from day dot. Just do beware of the tall head tube on those XL Pre Cursa frames. Not sure if the TC1 is the same (the DF4 is, of course, a world-class bike - but also assumes you want to have your bars slammed [down low] which you may, or if you're 6'4 like me, you may not...) but the Pre Cursa XL I rode was definitely too tall in the head tube/bar height for proper track racing, even for me. Along with any aero disadvantage, the drops being too high put your centre of gravity up quite high, which makes handling a bit cumbersome at speed and on the banking. Most new track riders who I tell to drop their bars and inch or two from their road positions notice the handling benefits first and foremost. The aero is just a bonus for most of them, especially in age-group racing. But it's a personal thing. Get someone experienced to eyeball you on the bike, or a full on fit with someone who knows track, if you can.

All the best!
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Old 12-28-18, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post
My primary thought was that if OP is in the UK, the 'local' track might well be a fast indoor one like Manchester, Newport (Geraint Thomas National Velodrome of Wales, ahem...), Hoy, or Lee Valley, etc... which probably means at least 2" or even 4" bigger gears are probably appropriate for the boards vs the average outdoor track. And especially if you're that strong and still have some BMX speed, and you might just be a decent sprinter which means future gears will possibly be larger again. Once you can ride the track well...

Do experiment as Carleton says, and race as much as you can. 95-ish sounds like a very good starting point for most club level racing.
+1

If you're indoor then step it up. In races with larger bunches, you could also step it up a bit. Racing local club races vs the larger field carnival day that we have is a 4+" step up as with the larger fields the speeds tend to be a lot faster too.

Once you're satisfied you've got the power production sorted definitely start playing around with larger. With your strength and your BMX background it will likely happen a lot faster than a true beginner. My fastest F200 was on 117". For me it was an unreal feeling punching something so big after spending so many years chasing my tail with smaller "spinny" gears.
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Old 12-29-18, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Great info from Rico and others above.

Chris, a track racing “career” (even for us local guys) is a long road. You’ll have a lot of time and opportunities to experiment...and you should definitely experiment. Don’t sweat the details like gearing and whether you are ready for big gears. That’s like a new basketball player talking about “which dunks should I practice?”. There is so much before the fine tuning of personal gear options come into play. At this point, big gears may actually make you slower and less competitive in your local beginner races (scratch, points, miss-n-out, time trials, etc), which can be demoralizing.

Never underestimate how good winning a beginner 5 lap scratch feels for a new racer. Feels damn good!!

I suggest that you cut your teeth on “normal” gears then move to big gears when the time is right.

The number 1 thing that will make you faster faster is simply showing up at the track and riding and racing your bike as much as possible. When you aren’t doing that, watch the other races going on. Help out keeping score. Learn how to ring the bell. I bet that advice would hold up for a new BMX racer, too
Hi Carleton

Thanks that makes a lot of sense

I just wanna get it right and not waste money and do well. Not want much really 😂😂

But I will be patient and enjoy the journey

Yes totally agree, enjoying it and building confidence is key, not trying to push gears I cannot do

Yeah getting involved is key, thanks 👍



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Old 12-29-18, 02:34 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post
^^ This. Haha Love the analogy...

My primary thought was that if OP is in the UK, the 'local' track might well be a fast indoor one like Manchester, Newport (Geraint Thomas National Velodrome of Wales, ahem...), Hoy, or Lee Valley, etc... which probably means at least 2" or even 4" bigger gears are probably appropriate for the boards vs the average outdoor track. And especially if you're that strong and still have some BMX speed, and you might just be a decent sprinter which means future gears will possibly be larger again. Once you can ride the track well...

Do experiment as Carleton says, and race as much as you can. 95-ish sounds like a very good starting point for most club level racing.



No worries, glad to hear you're enjoying track

No idea about the Dolan showroom as I haven't been, but if you can go, I reckon do... they can probably help with the fitting, especially if they're trackies, and would be worth it if you can try out the different sizes/models.

I note that Dolan still offers customisation of stem size and some components on the website when you buy, so that might help with getting the sizing close from day dot. Just do beware of the tall head tube on those XL Pre Cursa frames. Not sure if the TC1 is the same (the DF4 is, of course, a world-class bike - but also assumes you want to have your bars slammed [down low] which you may, or if you're 6'4 like me, you may not...) but the Pre Cursa XL I rode was definitely too tall in the head tube/bar height for proper track racing, even for me. Along with any aero disadvantage, the drops being too high put your centre of gravity up quite high, which makes handling a bit cumbersome at speed and on the banking. Most new track riders who I tell to drop their bars and inch or two from their road positions notice the handling benefits first and foremost. The aero is just a bonus for most of them, especially in age-group racing. But it's a personal thing. Get someone experienced to eyeball you on the bike, or a full on fit with someone who knows track, if you can.

All the best!
Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice 😊

The track is the best thing i’ve ever done and seen

I saw it on TV and liked it

But when i was actually there it was amazing and then riding round was fun!

Yeah I will get a mid 90’s like you said

I might come back again on the bike once i’ve been as i don’t want to get it wrong. I’m only 175cm but long armed so wanna get it right

Thansk again 😊

Just need to get fit and maybe get some supplements like creatine, not sure if that’s still a big thing?

Also what’s a realistic time for a masters (40) flying 200?

Thabks again 👍
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Old 12-29-18, 02:36 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
+1

If you're indoor then step it up. In races with larger bunches, you could also step it up a bit. Racing local club races vs the larger field carnival day that we have is a 4+" step up as with the larger fields the speeds tend to be a lot faster too.

Once you're satisfied you've got the power production sorted definitely start playing around with larger. With your strength and your BMX background it will likely happen a lot faster than a true beginner. My fastest F200 was on 117". For me it was an unreal feeling punching something so big after spending so many years chasing my tail with smaller "spinny" gears.

thanks a lot! I cannot wait to see how fast I can go 😊

Whaat was your fastest?
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Old 12-29-18, 03:51 PM
  #19  
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Chris, I'm in a somewhat similar position to you in that I'm fairly new to track - started about 18 months ago and have now got through the 4-stage accreditation at Manchester to enable me to race/do SQTs. You sound like you're in a pretty good starting place; once the conditioning comes back I'm sure you'll be flying. One of the joys of riding at Manchester for me is that it's a very broad church - at one end of the scale there are some very quick young guys and some of the GB lot (and the Irish track team too) are regulars, whereas at the other end of the spectrum there are lots of oldies who've been doing it forever and have forgotten more than I know. The thing that unites us is that we all love our weird little niche and want all the other newbies to love it too.

Listen to all of the advice (before deciding what to follow and what to ignore). There is a fair bit of "In my day..." reminiscing from some of them but the advice they can give is often gold. I was chatting to Chris Pyatt, a former Masters world champion sprinter, during an SQT before Christmas - hell of a nice guy and very approachable. Which track is your local?
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Old 12-29-18, 04:35 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post
Also what’s a realistic time for a masters (40) flying 200?
Check results for competitions that you would be entering. They should be somewhere around the web. That should give you a start point. For me there are 2 levels, competitive and winning times. Competitive where you get into the sprint rounds, and winning where you have a genuine chance of victory. For the 40-44 M3 bracket it changes depending on who’s in the bracket at the time, and then of course who turns up to race. For worlds you’re looking at low 11s to get some racing, but you definitely should be looking at sub 11 for a winning chance.

Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post
Whaat was your fastest?
11.8 for me. Some fast guys told me it could have been as good as 11.6 with a better line which gave me a great confidence boost. I then rolled into a great off season but life turned to poo and now a year later I’m just trying to get some sort of regular training happening and back to some sort of conditioning.
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Old 12-29-18, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisRob01 View Post


Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice 😊

The track is the best thing i’ve ever done and seen

I saw it on TV and liked it

But when i was actually there it was amazing and then riding round was fun!

Yeah I will get a mid 90’s like you said

I might come back again on the bike once i’ve been as i don’t want to get it wrong. I’m only 175cm but long armed so wanna get it right

Thansk again 😊

Just need to get fit and maybe get some supplements like creatine, not sure if that’s still a big thing?

Also what’s a realistic time for a masters (40) flying 200?

Thabks again 👍
Awesome Have fun with it, stay safe out there.

Learning to ride the track really well, and your racing tactics, technique on the bike and your fitness gains are going to matter the most for improving your times - over at least your first year or so, probably. Race as much as you can. All types. Go to training sessions with experienced trackies. Get really good at riding the track.

Actual training will matter a lot more than supplements too. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with much but for reference, I use caffeine (coffeeee... , plain whey protein isolate on most gym days, and a standard creatine monohydrate in season (when I can be bothered, which is rarely). Nothing fancy. You're talking pretty marginal gains from these. Do check the WADA list if you're getting into supplements - and some of the pre-workout things have some dodgy uppers in them! I'd avoid personally, for jittery reasons as much as anything.

Like I said, technique will trump any strength gains. You're already strong. But you'll need to learn to put your power down on the bike, and in different situations on the banking, and find out what works for you re. gears, tactics, etc. Hopefully your BMX experience will make this a quicker learning curve... I recall Wade Bootes tried out track sprinting for AUS with some level of success when I was younger, but I think he went back to MTB eventually.

*Find a good local sprint coach if you decide to get serious about sprinting, and train with the local sprinters*. But try everything. Just for fun. For sprint-specific training, you will get the biggest gains from training on the track with sprinters who know what they're doing, and especially from following them when they do their flying 200s - this will help you learn the 200 line to follow, and to get used to putting the power down on the banking. Technique matters a lot. Line matters a lot. No matter how powerful you get, you can lose a lot of time from starting your sprint too late/at the wrong time, taking the wrong line and not getting the full benefit of the banking.... read that UpUpUp site regarding F200s once you get into it a bit more.

So yeah, F200 time depends a lot on how good your technique is, as well as sustained power output, so I don't want to say anything potentially discouraging. You'll improve quickly if you practice. Assuming you're on a decently-fast track, anything around 14-13 seconds is actually quite good for your first few F200s, even if you have a lot of power, due to technique/line variations. Sub-12 seconds is getting competitive at a local level generally, mid-to-low 11's is usually competitive at national level in Masters 2. At the UCI world-champs level, the best Masters 2 guys in their 40's are still quite fast and can do sub-11 seconds. Like 10.6-10.9. But then you have to do match sprints anyway, so you have to nail the tactics down too

PS - buy a skinsuit. They're faster and look more professional. Looking professional is key. And did I mention to buy some track straps for your pedals, and crank the tension up? Unclipping on the banking sucks.
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Old 12-29-18, 05:52 PM
  #22  
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I feel like the bad guy tempering the enthusiasm.

I think that looking at the times of 40-44 year old masters can be misleading and disheartening to a beginner. 35-39 and 40-44 are (arguably) the fastest age groups for masters racing. Top riders can post times close to some elites.

A rank beginner will post slow times. Period.

When Chris rides his first few flying 200s that will likely be 14-15”, that may disappoint a man expecting to be in the 11-12” range. And he may lose interest.

As one of the top coaches in the US Kirk Whiteman told me, “It takes a trackie four years to become good. Eight years to become great.”

Be careful not to compare yourself to those who habe been riding for a long time. They have already worked out their kinks.
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Old 12-30-18, 12:51 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by FinkFloyd View Post
Chris, I'm in a somewhat similar position to you in that I'm fairly new to track - started about 18 months ago and have now got through the 4-stage accreditation at Manchester to enable me to race/do SQTs. You sound like you're in a pretty good starting place; once the conditioning comes back I'm sure you'll be flying. One of the joys of riding at Manchester for me is that it's a very broad church - at one end of the scale there are some very quick young guys and some of the GB lot (and the Irish track team too) are regulars, whereas at the other end of the spectrum there are lots of oldies who've been doing it forever and have forgotten more than I know. The thing that unites us is that we all love our weird little niche and want all the other newbies to love it too.

Listen to all of the advice (before deciding what to follow and what to ignore). There is a fair bit of "In my day..." reminiscing from some of them but the advice they can give is often gold. I was chatting to Chris Pyatt, a former Masters world champion sprinter, during an SQT before Christmas - hell of a nice guy and very approachable. Which track is your local?
Thanks for all the advice, appreciated 👍
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Old 12-30-18, 12:54 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post


Check results for competitions that you would be entering. They should be somewhere around the web. That should give you a start point. For me there are 2 levels, competitive and winning times. Competitive where you get into the sprint rounds, and winning where you have a genuine chance of victory. For the 40-44 M3 bracket it changes depending on who’s in the bracket at the time, and then of course who turns up to race. For worlds you’re looking at low 11s to get some racing, but you definitely should be looking at sub 11 for a winning chance.



11.8 for me. Some fast guys told me it could have been as good as 11.6 with a better line which gave me a great confidence boost. I then rolled into a great off season but life turned to poo and now a year later I’m just trying to get some sort of regular training happening and back to some sort of conditioning.
Thanks, that sounds really fast, can’t wait to see where i am at. I don’t have unrealistic expectations just want to have fun and get better. Thanks again
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Old 12-30-18, 01:04 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Ricovonsuave View Post
Awesome Have fun with it, stay safe out there.

Learning to ride the track really well, and your racing tactics, technique on the bike and your fitness gains are going to matter the most for improving your times - over at least your first year or so, probably. Race as much as you can. All types. Go to training sessions with experienced trackies. Get really good at riding the track.

Actual training will matter a lot more than supplements too. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with much but for reference, I use caffeine (coffeeee... , plain whey protein isolate on most gym days, and a standard creatine monohydrate in season (when I can be bothered, which is rarely). Nothing fancy. You're talking pretty marginal gains from these. Do check the WADA list if you're getting into supplements - and some of the pre-workout things have some dodgy uppers in them! I'd avoid personally, for jittery reasons as much as anything.

Like I said, technique will trump any strength gains. You're already strong. But you'll need to learn to put your power down on the bike, and in different situations on the banking, and find out what works for you re. gears, tactics, etc. Hopefully your BMX experience will make this a quicker learning curve... I recall Wade Bootes tried out track sprinting for AUS with some level of success when I was younger, but I think he went back to MTB eventually.

*Find a good local sprint coach if you decide to get serious about sprinting, and train with the local sprinters*. But try everything. Just for fun. For sprint-specific training, you will get the biggest gains from training on the track with sprinters who know what they're doing, and especially from following them when they do their flying 200s - this will help you learn the 200 line to follow, and to get used to putting the power down on the banking. Technique matters a lot. Line matters a lot. No matter how powerful you get, you can lose a lot of time from starting your sprint too late/at the wrong time, taking the wrong line and not getting the full benefit of the banking.... read that UpUpUp site regarding F200s once you get into it a bit more.

So yeah, F200 time depends a lot on how good your technique is, as well as sustained power output, so I don't want to say anything potentially discouraging. You'll improve quickly if you practice. Assuming you're on a decently-fast track, anything around 14-13 seconds is actually quite good for your first few F200s, even if you have a lot of power, due to technique/line variations. Sub-12 seconds is getting competitive at a local level generally, mid-to-low 11's is usually competitive at national level in Masters 2. At the UCI world-champs level, the best Masters 2 guys in their 40's are still quite fast and can do sub-11 seconds. Like 10.6-10.9. But then you have to do match sprints anyway, so you have to nail the tactics down too

PS - buy a skinsuit. They're faster and look more professional. Looking professional is key. And did I mention to buy some track straps for your pedals, and crank the tension up? Unclipping on the banking sucks.
thanks again, really appreciate all the advice 😊

I just want to get better and keep improving and having fun

track straps? I wasn’t aware, what would you reccomend?

Also any guidance on the skin suit?
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