avole

Is this humour? The only part I uinderstand is that you don't own, nor have tested, a Helix.

I hope the Helix does well, by the way. Could be a good touring vehicle, assuming the parts are standard and easy to come by.

Revoltingest

Yes.
All info I've seen about the Helix says that it will be a fantastic bike for
my purposes...taking it with me in my travels to cover both on & off road.
And, yes, the parts subject to wear are very "off the shelf".

FolderBeholder

tds101 

I agree,...good luck to all. I hope the Helix finally ships, and all the updates are favorable.

Revoltingest

Ain't nuthin perfect, including my current Dahon Helios.
But the Helix addresses those shortcomings, eg, folded size, wheel size.
Here's hoping that teething problems are minimal & correctable.

wesgreen

All the backers deserve credit for their support for bike development, regardless of the outcome.

Gibsonsean

Latest update out and very exciting. Some more details about previously undisclosed design elements, a very heartening explanation of what has been going on since Christmas and a confirmatiom that the first bike will be shipping in a week or two.

MrFlamey

Latest update is certainly interesting! The guy is a mad perfectionist, and has a solution to every single problem (and more) that I ever had with my current folding bike, but I've gotta be honest that when a perfectionist actually manages to finish a project, the results can be amazing. Let's hope the final product will be as good as it is promising. Really looking forward to the next update, as it should include news of actual shipped bikes. Also looking forward to those ahead of me in line for their bikes receiving them and writing about them here.

Choice quote of the update: " I know that in some instances the project has been critiqued for perfectionism " while talking about the frame shot peening process, which wasn't even planned originally, and was taken in house because the external company wasn't up to snuff.

tds101 

ladi

So is an assembly line set up already and production is running? Workers are trained for assembly and everything? Is there any information on how many bikes were produced already?

I guess this is quite important for the Helix economically. Only when mass production is running at acceptable quality it will be possible to estimate how much the price for a bike will be on the long run.

Gibsonsean

So it would seem, with bikes to begin shipping in a matter of a week or two. We've seen many elements of the production process in place including the assembly stations and in November last year staff had been recruited and were being trained for assembly. There is an unknown inventory of frames that have been steadily being manufactured for months now.

As referenced in a post above, one of the outsourced production steps - frame finishing, has recently been brought in house due to quality issues and there has been a design change to one of the components, so there are some tweaks in progress to the back end of the production line, therefore no bikes 100% complete yet I assume - otherwise they'd be shipping now, not in a week or two.

We don't know current or projected production rates for sure, but we do have a sense of what they are expecting/hoping to acheive. I don't think they would want that shared at this stage though.

downtube

I estimate that I could assemble at least 20 bikes per day....on my own. This equals 140 per week, or 500ish per month. Three people would nearly triple production.

This implies that he can fulfill obligations in a bit over a month with a small team, and no formal assembly line.

I understand he will go slower, hence his schedule is pretty easy. IMHO

Thanks
Yan

AvnerBen

The number mentioned above - 500 - is optimistic. I remember expecting reaching 250 per month after a few months, starting with no more than 100.
This quite fits the July-August schedule for my two orders which are numbered in the 1300's. And I would not be surprised if it takes more than that. (Sad indeed, because that will mean having to endure our yearly bike vacation with those old Bromptons again, but not surprised!&#128512

berlinonaut

With an 8-hour work-day this means per bike you need just 24 minutes. To assemble one bike from scratch, starting with picking up all the separated frame parts, components and small bits and ending up with a finished, quality tested bike, packed, labeled and ready to pick up by a courier. With a bike design as complex as the helix, w/o experience and w/o a formal, proven process or assembly line. I would really like to see that...

... as you work seven days a week.

I'd rather say his schedule is not "pretty easy" but just way more realistic than your's.

downtube

I would not like to see it, but I could do it. I assumed 12 hr days would be a minimum.

My argument was that he doesn't need an assembly line with numbers he provided as projections. I am sure I could do that on my own.

Thanks
Yan

berlinonaut

Well, this would leave you with 36 minutes per bike then. Still not near realistic for the tasks in question.

And - as you say you could do that on your own - it would probably also mean you would have to do it on you own as I highly doubt that you would find employees that would love to work at least 12 hours a day, seven days a week at high speed w/o a break.
Does sound neither sound like a desirable let alone fun place to work at nor like a very sustainable way of working or a workplace that could deliver quality.

Unfortunately your way of working does not only not work but also not scale (as nobody will be willing to work this way), so you will miss your predicted delivery goals that you calculated based on a team of three. It does neither leave room for failure nor time to enhance or standardize (as you are too busy fulfilling your goals to spend time to do so). Your business will be doomed pretty soon (as you will be burned out quickly and are neither able to receive new orders nor lead or employ or train other staff nor to enhance your product as you are busy building bikes yourself all day long).

So you'll probably miss your deadlines, produce faulty bikes, loose your family, ruin your health and doom your business (that you just built up over a couple of years and finally want to start earning money with). Does not sound like a clever plan to me.

RichardLee

Two hours ago (1230 ET, 1730 GMT) I received this email:

Gibsonsean

I have not recieved the email, perhaps because I've already checked out, or perhaps because I was not on the original mailing list as someone who bought out a backer. Despite having updated my contact details in one part of the portal, when I came to check out, the initial shipping details list were still my predecessor's.

I'm sure it is just that you have not been removed from the mailing list. I don't know what you did to be banished but time heals all wounds. Maybe it has been long enough and, if you are still keen on a Helix, Peter might reinstate your order if asked?

Based on today's update, things are looking very promising for shipping of the first batch in the latter part of next week! Don't know how big the first batch is, but I hope it includes #39. To think, after all this time, I could be riding the Helix this time next week!

tds101 

Price Starting at $2200 USD

Pahana

The base prices seem a little low for Ti frame bikes. As the owner of a Ti Brompton and the ex-owner of a Ti 18 pound mountain bike something doesn't add up here. The frame of a Ti bike should cost $2,200 alone. Something doesn't feel right. Also the $100 difference between the single speed and the 10 speed seems strange. I could be wrong but a Ti bike made in Canada should be more expensive. We're talking China prices here Can someone enlighten me about this?

RedTrek

I received my Helix order confirmation today. I am considering downgrading from the 11 speed internal gear hub to the 10 speed derailleur because I have never owned a bike with an internal gear hub and I am not sure if it is worth the added expense and maintenance requirements. Please share your opinions on this matter. Thanks : )

RedTrek

From the Helix web site:

I was wrong about the internal hub requiring more maintenance. Since I am accustomed to derailleur system and I don't care about the above mentioned advantages of the internal hub, I will downgrade, but I would still like to hear opinions about this. Thanks!

Gibsonsean

As well as the above stated advantages, i believe chain dropping folding can be an issue on many folders with derailleurs. This may be a consideration for some preferring the Alfine but it based on the update before last, seems Helix addresses this explicitly with some clever mechanism so shouldn't be an issue.

MrFlamey

While I'm not particularly qualified to answer this, my impression is that the robotic welding saves a lot of labour cost and reduces time needed to weld each bike, so this could save a substantial part of the cost of making the Ti frames. Also, the $2200 you are talking about is presumably from the Helix website, which still appears to have not really been updated recently (save for the year of the preorder resumption date!), so there is a chance retail prices will be a little higher than those currently stated on the site. However, the original preorder price was substantially cheaper, and the Kickstarter price cheaper still (and with better components), so maybe $2200 is the planned price - if so, it would certainly be interesting to know their margin on each bike.

Gibsonsean

A source of long and heated debate during the KS launch and since on this thread. Not only is the bike titanium, but it is also complex in design and manufacture. The frame and forks alone seem to have more components than a full built full suspension mountain bike. Many believe the price is too low, even suggesting Helix must therefore be a scam.

Broadly, the counter view has been as follows:
- Ti tubing is not so expensive in and of itself
- the high costs of working and welding Ti, requiring lots of time from highly skilled labour, a significant driver of the price of Ti frames, are ameliorated by in house production and templating and automation of much of the manufacturing process including all welding
- the standard components specced are not particularly high end
- if the bikes are marketed directly, there is no middle man taking a cut
- Helix is clearly priced to compete with Brompton and the manufacturing process is set to scale so the business plan may be prioritising volume over margin