Women's cycling race forced to pause after lead rider catches men's race
#101
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Just come to say that giving opinions without knowing anything about the matter always provides great entertainment. Great job, (almost) everyone.
#102
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#103
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Isn't that exactly what happened here? The leaders of one race must take priority over the last place rider of another.
#104
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And this is, in my estimation, why cycling hasn't caught on in big numbers here in the US. We absolutely love things that aren't specifically about being fast-- like drifting, for instance-- but if it's supposed to be fast, we want it fast. The tactics and team jockeying are lost on a typical viewer.
In auto racing, it's "go fast, don't bend the car." In cycling, they're racing two days ahead, their entire strategy hinging on keeping a predetermined guy in a certain color shirt. If they don't think they have a chance on that stage, they duff the whole day. This is why crits and CX have grown in popularity. Fast, all-out efforts for like an hour.
My hands-down favorite race to watch? The Para-cycle criterium at Redlands. They're not sponsored pros, they're not using tactics. They're pedaling with their arms, and they go as hard as they can from the green flag to the checkered. Also-- they're very fast.
You know what crit I'd like to see for the pro men? Every time the peleton crosses the line, the last 5 guys are out, until there's only five left. There won't be any sitting up in that race.
In auto racing, it's "go fast, don't bend the car." In cycling, they're racing two days ahead, their entire strategy hinging on keeping a predetermined guy in a certain color shirt. If they don't think they have a chance on that stage, they duff the whole day. This is why crits and CX have grown in popularity. Fast, all-out efforts for like an hour.
My hands-down favorite race to watch? The Para-cycle criterium at Redlands. They're not sponsored pros, they're not using tactics. They're pedaling with their arms, and they go as hard as they can from the green flag to the checkered. Also-- they're very fast.
You know what crit I'd like to see for the pro men? Every time the peleton crosses the line, the last 5 guys are out, until there's only five left. There won't be any sitting up in that race.
But the best races are the juniors in Belgium. Full gas from the start. They are gear limited to keep them together. They head right into buildings, hop curbs, run over parking blocks and keep going. This is why you get thousands watching 150-200 15-16 year olds in a day's race. And in many cases they are the only ones on the road.
The juniors this age do not know they will not be pros, and they have not figured out that that may suck as a job. They go all in. Most adults know it is rec / or a job.
Part of that is the LACK of teams. Teams control races. Without many, or a dominant team riders just go for it.
#108
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I feel you. The highest wind chill here in Philly yesterday was 14. We have, however, gotten a break when it comes to snow. What little we got melted/washed away almost as quickly as we got it. The 'burbs got hit harder.
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To me, it was the only realistic outcome of a bad situation that should have never happened with better planning, beyond letting her draft in the men's group for those next 12 miles.
#110
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Not exactly. The lead woman was on a breakaway and as the video says, "The (men's) peloton was 'promenading,'" If they're choosing to go slow, let her race right through. Next time put a larger gap from the start.
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There is only one class that matters in about every sport (Tennis seems to escape this), and that is the open class. Or the class that generates the most views and revenue. Everyone else should realize that the event is more likely for them, than the other way around. I'm sure race promoters are more than happy to cancel the races where only 1,2 or 4 racers register. In this example, do we know how big the field was she left? She got 17th? Out of?
I like the Fondo style - and so does the public it appears. You just dump everyone in is the way to go. Get 476 place out of 2,483 riders and you just look and see how many tandems, electric motors, or whatever folks like you placed. Everyone knows it is not serious, although many are serious about it.
Race classes matching social classes is the wrong way to go. Matching it on some get to use some drugs and some don't is also an issue.
While no one pays attention outside the open class, when it come to juniors we just teach them fairness and racing have little to do with each other.
A juniors a 13yo may be shaving and can ride away from the other kids, a 12 yo girl may be faster than the 12yo boy, a 17 year old in a pro race can use the same gears as the adult.
Those inequities are created by the age and gender classes. When you then limit equipment for some, and not for others I see that as a huge issue as that is where we train the kids fairness is not really part of cycling.
#112
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Putting a larger gap from the start would have been ideal, of course. The beauty of hindsight. Fwiw, what they did was as close to putting a larger gap from the start as you could get. The race had been going for ~30 km only when they stopped for ten minutes and then restarted the race. That breakaway was going nowhere. While saying that the race was not affected would obviously be false, the effect on the final outcome was very likely none.
Last edited by PepeM; 03-07-19 at 10:07 AM.
#113
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Except, it wasn't a straggler off the back, it was the entire peloton being caught because a single breakaway rider in a different race was running a different strategy. They are two things that should have never come in contact with one another.
To me, it was the only realistic outcome of a bad situation that should have never happened with better planning, beyond letting her draft in the men's group for those next 12 miles.
To me, it was the only realistic outcome of a bad situation that should have never happened with better planning, beyond letting her draft in the men's group for those next 12 miles.
#114
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#115
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Agreed, should have never happened and they will definitely use a larger gap next time. Auto racing mixes classes on the same track and I've raced motorcycles of different classes on the same track. I would rather see her gain the advantage by joining the men's peloton than be punished for "racing" in a race.
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Agreed, should have never happened and they will definitely use a larger gap next time. Auto racing mixes classes on the same track and I've raced motorcycles of different classes on the same track. I would rather see her gain the advantage by joining the men's peloton than be punished for "racing" in a race.
HAD you let her race with the men, and she placed highly, then the results would have likely been protested by other competitors (at least, I presume protesting results is a thing in bike racing too).
#117
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That wouldn't have happened though. Had no race neutralization occurred, she would have been stuck trying to ride around all of the team cars, motorcycle support, etc. Even if she made it to the men's peloton without being hit by a motorized vehicle, then she would have been stuck at the back end of a 100+ group that was moving slowly. Then, 90 seconds later, the women's peloton would've caught up to the men's peloton. What then? Have them race around the cars/motorcycles? Let both pelotons (and their respective support vehicles) merge? Surely everyone who has ever watched a bicycle race sees the complete absurdity of this, right?
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This is why I've found the women's events to be more interesting and more entertaining. The men's event is 4+ hours of a slowly rotating peleton, with teams taking turns setting pace while the big guns sit up in the middle of the pack to save their legs for the last surge. There's maybe 20 minutes of proper action.
Men's (collegiate) basketball is all about strategy. Essentially playing "keep-away", and running down the clock.
Women's (collegiate) basketball is running the ball down the court and putting it in the hoop. I think they may also have a shot clock that keeps them moving.
#119
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Sport is so much more interesting when something unusual happens. Tyler Hamilton's breakaway with a broken collarbone, Michael Schumacher winning a race with only 4th gear, a barefoot marathoner, Cubs World Series...
The only reason we even heard of this race is because of what happened. The directors saw what was developing and could have radioed the mens' teams to tell them to pick up the pace. Maybe the threat of losing their support vehicles and being passed by a girl would embarrass them into action. Sure, her breakaway would probably fail, but the beauty of sport is to hope "what if?"
The only reason we even heard of this race is because of what happened. The directors saw what was developing and could have radioed the mens' teams to tell them to pick up the pace. Maybe the threat of losing their support vehicles and being passed by a girl would embarrass them into action. Sure, her breakaway would probably fail, but the beauty of sport is to hope "what if?"
#120
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Ok, here's a bird's eye view of the neutralization per Strava. I put a few links into the race in Post #88
I don't have a Strava upload for Nicole Hanselmann, so one has to assume she is somewhere in the gap between the women and the men. There may be other riders not reporting on Strava, including potentially more stragglers behind the men.
The women did very well in general on those descending rollers (MP15 through MP25). The men had some of their slowest pace of the race through that section.
The races continue together until mile 37, at the end of the plateau above, then the two separate. The last segment is shared between races, but the women finised long before the men came through.
I don't have a Strava upload for Nicole Hanselmann, so one has to assume she is somewhere in the gap between the women and the men. There may be other riders not reporting on Strava, including potentially more stragglers behind the men.
The women did very well in general on those descending rollers (MP15 through MP25). The men had some of their slowest pace of the race through that section.
The races continue together until mile 37, at the end of the plateau above, then the two separate. The last segment is shared between races, but the women finised long before the men came through.
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Yes - but does it help cycling? I don't know. In general any news is good news, so I guess so.
There is only one class that matters in about every sport (Tennis seems to escape this), and that is the open class. Or the class that generates the most views and revenue. Everyone else should realize that the event is more likely for them, than the other way around. I'm sure race promoters are more than happy to cancel the races where only 1,2 or 4 racers register. In this example, do we know how big the field was she left? She got 17th? Out of?
There is only one class that matters in about every sport (Tennis seems to escape this), and that is the open class. Or the class that generates the most views and revenue. Everyone else should realize that the event is more likely for them, than the other way around. I'm sure race promoters are more than happy to cancel the races where only 1,2 or 4 racers register. In this example, do we know how big the field was she left? She got 17th? Out of?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/oml...-2019/results/
#122
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The only reason we even heard of this race is because of what happened. The directors saw what was developing and could have radioed the mens' teams to tell them to pick up the pace. Maybe the threat of losing their support vehicles and being passed by a girl would embarrass them into action. Sure, her breakaway would probably fail, but the beauty of sport is to hope "what if?"
Threaten the men with disqualification if they get passed (or any of the women got within 50 yards/meters of them), and one might have seen quite a horse-race.
My guess is the gap would have naturally widened on the next hill after the neutralization point anyway, but could have closed once again on the plateau above.
The support vehicles could easily have dropped 5 minutes back for the next 10 miles, and then caught up later. Flat tire or crash ==> Neutralization?
Perhaps get some TV crews mixed into the Women's race.
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This is why I've found the women's events to be more interesting and more entertaining. The men's event is 4+ hours of a slowly rotating peleton, with teams taking turns setting pace while the big guns sit up in the middle of the pack to save their legs for the last surge. There's maybe 20 minutes of proper action.
The women's races are peppered with breakways and lead changes, and the peleton will surge, fragment, and regroup. Sometimes one rider will just put on the jets (like Hanselmann) and just ride off. Last year's crit winner at the local race finished 53 seconds ahead of second place, and was still looking over her shoulder as she sprinted to the line. She had no idea how far ahead she was-- the field simply could not catch her. I also even like the shorter events. I don't have all day.
The women's races are peppered with breakways and lead changes, and the peleton will surge, fragment, and regroup. Sometimes one rider will just put on the jets (like Hanselmann) and just ride off. Last year's crit winner at the local race finished 53 seconds ahead of second place, and was still looking over her shoulder as she sprinted to the line. She had no idea how far ahead she was-- the field simply could not catch her. I also even like the shorter events. I don't have all day.
It is a different sport though. I'm not the world's biggest cycling watcher either, but you have to take a sport as it is. I like F1 better, but there are always 'F1 fans' complaining that they don't go full throttle the whole race and there should be lots of overtakes. No, that's not F1, it's not a sprint race but because of it's distance a semi endurance race and overtaking should be hard. If you don't like it, don't watch. Same with men's cycling, there is an endurance element to it, which allows for successfull early escapes and failing attempt, but also for a few boring hours of legs saving. That's why all the Tour de France reporters get 'the castle book". It's slow TV leading up to a short climax most often, also for the one day spring races in Belgium like this.
It works for the Belgian fans, and I truly don't know any sports fans more genuine than Belgian cycling fans. It works for practical reasons to, a lot of races and most big tour's stages are on workdays, and most fans will have finished work just in time to watch the final of the race. When they have days or weeks off they take it as slow tv just listening while doing somethin else or they listen cycling radio until something happens. Not my cup of tea most of the time, but not my call either.
Same with the women's race on the same day. The incident was discussed in a Belgian cycling show yesterday and all the guests including Tom Boone agreed it helped women's cycling to join the men's event and have their race at the same day. They were all male btw, but I don't doubt they all mean well for women's cycling.
#124
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She got 74th place out of 141 starters in a 123km professional bike race with many of the best female professional cyclists in the world.
Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Elite Women 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com
Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Elite Women 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com
My guess is that she would have continued to pound the course another 10 or 15 miles until MP37 or so, the bottom of the descent after the men/women separated.
At that point, the race might depend a bit on how much of a gap had formed.
There were a couple of chasers ahead of the peloton. They quickly fell back into the peloton, but that may have been a team decision rather than a personal choice. If enough of a gap had opened up, a 3-person breakaway could have been supportable.
Of course, there was a lot of road and a lot of hills ahead.
#125
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Same with the women's race on the same day. The incident was discussed in a Belgian cycling show yesterday and all the guests including Tom Boone agreed it helped women's cycling to join the men's event and have their race at the same day. They were all male btw, but I don't doubt they all mean well for women's cycling.
It likely helped PR a lot when the women actually caught up with the men, even just for a moment.