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Old 02-14-19, 09:25 PM
  #5476  
Huskey
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I believe they went back to BT, who then repainted them put in a new seatpost and drop outs and sold them on at a discount
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Old 02-14-19, 09:34 PM
  #5477  
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The last men's Professional 5,000 m world championship pursuit race, held in 1992, was won by Mike McCarthy of the USA.
What was his gold medal time?
Thanks
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Old 02-14-19, 10:12 PM
  #5478  
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Originally Posted by Huskey View Post
I believe they went back to BT, who then repainted them put in a new seatpost and drop outs and sold them on at a discount
Oh dang, that would have been a deal to jump on!
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Old 02-15-19, 03:02 AM
  #5479  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Oh dang, that would have been a deal to jump on!
Yeah. I imagine that they went to several friends of the program who knew their value and got first dibs.
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Old 02-21-19, 12:02 AM
  #5480  
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Does Daniel Harm still race?
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Old 02-21-19, 01:23 PM
  #5481  
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i haven't seen him on the national track scene in a looooooong time.
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Old 02-24-19, 10:17 AM
  #5482  
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Is there a ďsimpleĒ way of estimating how many watts a particular gear inch requires to turn over at a specified rpm?

im trying to set up some training plans on the ergo (kickr), but want to set the resistances in a custom workout on trainer road rather than change chain rings manually.

thanks for any help!
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Old 02-24-19, 09:34 PM
  #5483  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Is there a “simple” way of estimating how many watts a particular gear inch requires to turn over at a specified rpm?

im trying to set up some training plans on the ergo (kickr), but want to set the resistances in a custom workout on trainer road rather than change chain rings manually.

thanks for any help!
No "simple" way. Turning over the pedals requires overcoming resistance. The source of that resistance is what is going to determine how many watts are required to turn a given gear at a given RPM. In the real world, this resistance is largely supplied by the rider's CdA. Rider with lower drag will be able to turn over X Gear at Y RPM with a lower wattage than a rider with a higher drag coefficient. You can set up a trainer with 50 watts resistance and turn over any gear at any RPM you want.

What you need to do is try and get an RPM:Watts plot for yourself. In other words, you will need a PM that tracks cadence and wattage, then pick a gear that you normally race in, and do a standing start to top speed. You can then use that graph to plot the resistance curve in your trainer program. You can do graphs for different gears, or different scenarios (Like an F200), as well as mix and match various protions of curves to get multiple graphs to use, and do your workouts based off of the appropriate wattage curves.
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Old 02-24-19, 09:57 PM
  #5484  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Is there a ďsimpleĒ way of estimating how many watts a particular gear inch requires to turn over at a specified rpm?

im trying to set up some training plans on the ergo (kickr), but want to set the resistances in a custom workout on trainer road rather than change chain rings manually.

thanks for any help!
Are you using your track bike on the kickr? If so how?

2nd - Don't overthink it. The proper fast guys I know of don't worry about any of that sort of level of detail. Having hung around them for a while, it's kind of amusing what the next level of rider worries themselves with
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Old 02-25-19, 01:57 AM
  #5485  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
No "simple" way. Turning over the pedals requires overcoming resistance. The source of that resistance is what is going to determine how many watts are required to turn a given gear at a given RPM. In the real world, this resistance is largely supplied by the rider's CdA. Rider with lower drag will be able to turn over X Gear at Y RPM with a lower wattage than a rider with a higher drag coefficient. You can set up a trainer with 50 watts resistance and turn over any gear at any RPM you want.

What you need to do is try and get an RPM:Watts plot for yourself. In other words, you will need a PM that tracks cadence and wattage, then pick a gear that you normally race in, and do a standing start to top speed. You can then use that graph to plot the resistance curve in your trainer program. You can do graphs for different gears, or different scenarios (Like an F200), as well as mix and match various protions of curves to get multiple graphs to use, and do your workouts based off of the appropriate wattage curves.
Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Are you using your track bike on the kickr? If so how?

2nd - Don't overthink it. The proper fast guys I know of don't worry about any of that sort of level of detail. Having hung around them for a while, it's kind of amusing what the next level of rider worries themselves with

Thanks to both of you for coming back to me. Im not after anything super specific with regards to actual real world wattages - more a way to calculate the change in wattage with different gear inches if we assumed the same CdA for all of them.

My reason for setting this up is that i do almost all of my bike training first thing in the morning at 5am. At that time i am very brain dead and i find it easiest if i can follow a workout on my laptop rather than have to do any maths myself. In the past when i have raced crits and on the road, i have had much better success with my training following workout through Trainerroad or the Sufferfest. The only thing i have to set up in the morning is my laptop and a cup of coffee. Other than that i can just follow the on screen prompts for cadence and the trainer sets the resistance.

I would like to create some custom workouts following along the lines of the ergo sessions listed on UpUpUp, but i have no idea what to set up the resistances as for the different gear inches relative to one another.

In answer to your second question Brawlo - i dont have a track bike on the Kickr, i just set up a normal road bike. I have changed the the front chain rings from compact to semi compact to standard in the past to try and get some of the bigger chainring / cog combinations but its a pain in the arse to re index the front mech each time.
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Old 02-25-19, 06:26 AM
  #5486  
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I tend to agree with Brawlo - the sort of thing that you're talking about sounds like a huge amount of work, but not something that would necessarily give you better results than simply following a Sufferfest or TrainerRoad session. Surely the thing to do is to try to work out the training stimulus that the Upupup session is trying to provide and then picking an existing session to suit? The Sufferfest's sessions tend to be modelled fairly closely on 'classic' training sessions (e.g. 2x20s, 40/20 second intervals, 1 minute on/1 minute off, 5x4 minute VO2max blocks, etc) so they should be fairly easy to equate to the Upupup plans.
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Old 02-25-19, 06:39 AM
  #5487  
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Iíve used sufferfest extensively in the past but the videos and plans are made for enduroís. Itís not the same as sprint training where itís give everything, rest and repeat. Rest periods are much longer. Iíve spoken to the guys at apex coaching who create the sufferfest plans and they agree that itís not really the right thing for match sprint training.

Im just looking to set up some training workouts - the actual act of building these doesnít take very long at all. I just need to work out the relative wattages between different gears, so if the instruction is power gear +4 for example, I know to set up x amount extra watts for that interval. I can then get these workouts prepared ahead of time and all I have to do in the morning is roll out of bed, load up the workout and ride.
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Old 02-25-19, 06:55 AM
  #5488  
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Why not train according to cadence and heart rate? HR is only a few seconds behind power in terms of monitoring what's going on.

As others have said, don't overthink it. I know it can be easy to get caught up in the numbers, but understand that Power is number derived from torque and cadence. The torque can changed based on crank length. Not to mention that weight and air resistance increase/decrease the power required to maintain a certain pace. It's simply not a precise measure of anything.

Your HR can probably tell you more about how much training you are doing than power numbers.

Think about it this way, if a set of twins were training. They have different levels of fitness. One rode CX all winter and the other one rode the couch. If they wanted to get the same amount of work out of a training session, which would ensure that they trained their bodies equally?

- Training to Power
- Training to HR

I would say that the latter would be a better way to make sure that they did the prescribed amount of work. Why? Let's say we tune the program to fit the out-of-shape twin, then the in-shape twin isn't getting enough work. Vice-versa and the out-of-shape twin is working too hard.

What's the purpose of this training? To hit certain power numbers or to train your engine? Your engine let's you know how it's doing via the HR. Power is just a way to show off how well your engine is performing. Train using HR. Evaluate progress using Power.
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Old 02-25-19, 07:06 AM
  #5489  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
What's the purpose of this training? To hit certain power numbers or to train your engine? Your engine let's you know how it's doing via the HR. Power is just a way to show off how well your engine is performing. Train using HR. Evaluate progress using Power.
I want to emulate the up up up program just without having to do any maths whilst Iím on the bike. I canít emphasise how brain dead I am at this time of the morning haha.

This is not going to be my only training, but the up up up program hass a good diagnostic test in it so having a repeatable test would be ideal to repeat through my training and gauge changes in performance.
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Old 02-25-19, 08:43 AM
  #5490  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post


I want to emulate the up up up program just without having to do any maths whilst Iím on the bike. I canít emphasise how brain dead I am at this time of the morning haha.

This is not going to be my only training, but the up up up program hass a good diagnostic test in it so having a repeatable test would be ideal to repeat through my training and gauge changes in performance.
I used to do the same thing with my Computrainer. You use Microsoft Notepad to make workout protocols. Once you make up a couple they're pretty eaau. Took me on average about 15 minutes to make up a 45-1hr workout, 5 minutes if it was a repeating interval (copy and paste, lol). I had about 8 of them made up for specific workouts. Used a watt/speed/cadence plot from my powertap to set the wattages for each interval.

Last edited by taras0000; 02-25-19 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 02-25-19, 09:03 AM
  #5491  
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Im not specifically bothered about the wattages being exactly the same as "real world" use, just that the wattages are all consistent with each other for any given gear inch value. Ie if i go from a 98 inch gear to a 100 inch, then its an x% increase in watts.
The thing is i am not sure if it increases linearly so thats why i wanted to see if anyone knew the maths for it ( at a constant RPM).

I think i may have been able to get what i need from https://www.bicyclegearcalculator.uk/derailleurgears.htm but i dont know how

I set gear 1 - 7 in the first table column as 11t through 17t and the three chainrings as 51,52, 53. I can repeat this until i have all of the chainring sizes i need. Results look like this:



Im guessing this should be an ok way of guesstimating the wattages needed. Above table is for 120rpm
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Old 02-25-19, 11:28 AM
  #5492  
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Your gearing isn't going to affect power output that much. You can be slightly over or undergeared and hit the same power numbers. If I were you, I would focus less on trying to dial in the wattage for the gearing, and focus more on knowing where your wattage lies in certain cadence ranges. It will be a lot simpler in the end to set your resistance for your workout this way. I'm other words, if you know that you are supposed to do an interval at X cadence, then look at your watts/RPM plot and set that as your resistance. You can gear up every few weeks as you get fitter.

Yes doing it this way requires some exploratory work, but in the end it is less hassle this way.

Last edited by taras0000; 02-25-19 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 02-25-19, 01:18 PM
  #5493  
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It would be interesting to try set wattages with the kickr but TBH I’ve never felt a want or need to do so. I’ve done a lot of kickr Upupup workouts and never set anything. I have an interval trainer app for my phone that I set the rest periods to display what I’m doing for the next effort - gearing, revs, etc. No real thinking as such as it’s right there in front of me telling me what to do.

If you want a good strength session, set the resistance to 100% and do an effort I do those from time to time and work on doing 12 pedal strokes, or 6 revs in 53/12.....brutal!
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Old 02-27-19, 08:53 AM
  #5494  
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Your change in power to keep the same cadence in a different gear is for all intents and purposes just the difference between gear ratios. If youre keeping the same rear cog on, it's just ((teeth on new chainring) / (teeth on old chainring)) * (power on old chainring at desired cadence). You'll still have to figure out your power gear and assuming your workouts dictate a different cadence than what you used to determine your power gear, you will need to graph a power / cadence curve for your power gear. Hope that helps.
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Old 03-07-19, 10:06 AM
  #5495  
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I know it's been brought up before, but I can't seem to find the full explanation.

If you're getting a Power2max NG with the Aldhu, what all do you need exactly to make it work? On a regular BSA frame (Track Elite)

Need the P2M spider, crankarms, the 147(?) road axle, and a BSA30 adapter? Is that right?

What the heck is the difference between the P2M Aldhu and the Aldhu24? Besides $100
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Old 03-07-19, 02:11 PM
  #5496  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
I know it's been brought up before, but I can't seem to find the full explanation.

If you're getting a Power2max NG with the Aldhu, what all do you need exactly to make it work? On a regular BSA frame (Track Elite)

Need the P2M spider, crankarms, the 147(?) road axle, and a BSA30 adapter? Is that right?

What the heck is the difference between the P2M Aldhu and the Aldhu24? Besides $100
Correct. To use the ALDHU system w/ a P2M power meter on a BSA 68 track bike you need the ALDHU crankarms, P2M spider, ALDHU ROAD axle, and BSA 30 ROAD bottom bracket.

The ALDHU uses a 30mm axle and the ALDHU 24 uses a 24mm axle.

The previous discussion is in the Effect of Crankarm Length thread.

https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...rformance.html
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Old 03-07-19, 02:27 PM
  #5497  
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@gl98115 Brilliant! Thanks

Yep that's the thread! Thanks again
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Old 03-07-19, 07:34 PM
  #5498  
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So anybody know what happened with Shane Perkins' participation with the Russian team at the WC's that just happened? Last I heard he was to ride TS and keirin, last FB post I saw of his was like "so excited to ride the WC's with the Russian team many thanks etc". Was really looking forward to seeing him ride, but then he didn't show up on any riders lists on Tissot Timing. Anybody with insight?
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Old 03-08-19, 12:41 AM
  #5499  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
So anybody know what happened with Shane Perkins' participation with the Russian team at the WC's that just happened? Last I heard he was to ride TS and keirin, last FB post I saw of his was like "so excited to ride the WC's with the Russian team many thanks etc". Was really looking forward to seeing him ride, but then he didn't show up on any riders lists on Tissot Timing. Anybody with insight?
This is interesting.
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Old 03-09-19, 06:35 AM
  #5500  
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Anyone have any links to any cheap and decent track gear bags. I like the look of the bls ones but they seem overly expensive.
Just after something for cogs, chainrings and tools, I already have a bag I've used for years but it's getting a bit old.
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