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How can buses get better?

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How can buses get better?

Old 04-25-19, 09:30 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
That's a really interesting idea. They should at least start experimenting more with selling multiple ride tickets in a single package and then doing more research into what customers want.
They do experiment continuously. But many of those service are more expensive to maintain than you think. I've seen communities ask for extended service. But when they added it, nobody rode it (only one or two people were on the bus).

After 6 months of empty buses, they cancelled the later service. For buses to be efficient they need to be full. It cost more to the taxpayers than it was worth.



True. There should be some kind of guarantee that if your bus doesn't show up within a certain amount of time you get a free taxi ride. The transit system could just send a driver in a car.
I lived in a city that did just that. You got two taxi rides/year and only during late hours.


Why couldn't they have personal media in the backs of the seats, like on airplanes?
Because airplanes have a lot more exclusive clientele. Remember, I said the biggest negative about transit is they accept everyone. I've seen people take the schedules and just tear them into little pieces.


Or make them more comfortable for sleeping and have more overnight schedules.
Same answer, people would live on the buses.



Thanks for a constructive post on the topic.
A sus ordenes.
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Old 04-25-19, 10:00 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
They do experiment continuously. But many of those service are more expensive to maintain than you think. I've seen communities ask for extended service. But when they added it, nobody rode it (only one or two people were on the bus).

After 6 months of empty buses, they cancelled the later service. For buses to be efficient they need to be full. It cost more to the taxpayers than it was worth.I lived in a city that did just that. You got two taxi rides/year and only during late hours.
Because airplanes have a lot more exclusive clientele. Remember, I said the biggest negative about transit is they accept everyone. I've seen people take the schedules and just tear them into little pieces.Same answer, people would live on the buses.A sus ordenes.
Some very valid and insightful points. The addition of experiences helps as well. I might add that airlines is for profit and so can be more innovative in a quest to capture more of a market share.

Tour buses have many of the features requested in the wish list post. But they also cost more.

I have ave known so many people who work in the mass transit industry and I have learned most transit districts live in the edge in the U S. People will take raise in fuel prices and complain. But they will still drive. Raise fares and people start looking for another form of transportation.
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Old 04-25-19, 04:18 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
People will take raise in fuel prices and complain. But they will still drive. Raise fares and people start looking for another form of transportation.
Bingo.

Charge them even more to park their vehicles in the city while they pursue whatever their employment or shopping intention are, and those combined with jacked up fuel cost (and to some extent tolls on highway use) can make bus travel a much more attractive proposition.

Oh, and add also removal of people's licences for long periods for breaching the law.
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Old 04-25-19, 05:23 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
They do experiment continuously. But many of those service are more expensive to maintain than you think. I've seen communities ask for extended service. But when they added it, nobody rode it (only one or two people were on the bus).

After 6 months of empty buses, they cancelled the later service. For buses to be efficient they need to be full. It cost more to the taxpayers than it was worth.I lived in a city that did just that. You got two taxi rides/year and only during late hours.
Because airplanes have a lot more exclusive clientele. Remember, I said the biggest negative about transit is they accept everyone. I've seen people take the schedules and just tear them into little pieces.Same answer, people would live on the buses.A sus ordenes.
I'm really just talking about long-distance bus routes. I think if people could rely on buses to go long distance, they could manage with a combination of transit and ride/bike/scooter share once they arrive.

If some long-distance coach service would offer multi-trip tickets for a low price-per-trip cost, it would be interesting to do customer research regarding where all people would take trips at such low prices.

As for the 'deplorable' problem you mention, Idk how to deal with that but I know it's a problem when people have to drive cars and fly in airplanes just to segregate themselves from other people they deplore. It is a waste of resources to solve a simple social problem.

The easier solution is to simply downgrade passengers' status when drivers cite them for various problems, whether it be drunkenness, lack of hygiene, rude/obnoxious behavior, etc. Then those passengers who have been cited and downgraded would only be eligible to take trips that are designated for their class-level. It would be the same as people who can't rent a certain apartment or get a certain job because they can't pass a criminal background check.
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Old 04-25-19, 07:07 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Bingo.

Charge them even more to park their vehicles in the city while they pursue whatever their employment or shopping intention are, and those combined with jacked up fuel cost (and to some extent tolls on highway use) can make bus travel a much more attractive proposition.

Oh, and add also removal of people's licences for long periods for breaching the law.
However here the drivers are a big voting block of close to 80 percent. I donít know how they finance mass transit in Australia but here in California it is through taxes. Any raise in taxes has to have where it is going listed and most often goes on the ballot. Mass transit has its hands tied because much of their non voted on income comes from fuel taxes and can often be taken away like it was a few years ago when a tax expired.

add to that we have free mall parking. Malls have put a big hurt on city businesses for just that reason.

However when I got back into cycling one of the first people I met was car free. As you suggested he list his license to drive. But he counted the day till he could drive again. Once he got his license back he quit his job in town and moved to Texas to get a job with a cable TV company. Hasnít been on a bus in two years and says he doesnít miss it at all.

That at is why I said people will not likely feel bad about themselves if the economy is good and they can afford to drive their own car. We will see what $4.00 gas does this summer but it wonít effect me. My old SUV got 15 to 17 mpg and my new little Honda gets 30-35.

But it that is a why LCF has a hard time getting traction. It doesnít have the same benefit to everyone. And as the link I posted earlier even new immigrants are picking driving over the bus.
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Old 04-25-19, 07:35 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I'm really just talking about long-distance bus routes.
Please specify: Intercity? Interstate?

I think if people could rely on buses to go long distance, they could manage with a combination of transit and ride/bike/scooter share once they arrive.


If some long-distance coach service would offer multi-trip tickets for a low price-per-trip cost, it would be interesting to do customer research regarding where all people would take trips at such low prices.


As for the 'deplorable' problem you mention, Idk how to deal with that but I know it's a problem when people have to drive cars and fly in airplanes just to segregate themselves from other people they deplore. It is a waste of resources to solve a simple social problem.


The easier solution is to simply downgrade passengers' status when drivers cite them for various problems, whether it be drunkenness, lack of hygiene, rude/obnoxious behavior, etc. Then those passengers who have been cited and downgraded would only be eligible to take trips that are designated for their class-level. It would be the same as people who can't rent a certain apartment or get a certain job because they can't pass a criminal background check.
Careful when you go down that road. It may start off with good intentions, but segregation invariably leads to discrimination and we all know what happens after that.

Last edited by KraneXL; 04-26-19 at 03:05 PM. Reason: integration change to discrimination
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Old 04-25-19, 07:58 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post

The easier solution is to simply downgrade passengers' status when drivers cite them for various problems, whether it be drunkenness, lack of hygiene, rude/obnoxious behavior, etc. Then those passengers who have been cited and downgraded would only be eligible to take trips that are designated for their class-level. It would be the same as people who can't rent a certain apartment or get a certain job because they can't pass a criminal background check.
China is working on a social score system like that.

https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...ng-the-train-1
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Old 04-25-19, 09:09 PM
  #58  
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Have a browse around the Australian Greyhound site:
https://www.greyhound.com.au/


They're not just people movers.



Regarding watching movies, as long as you've got free wifi and usb chargers, you can watch whatever movies you want.
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Old 04-26-19, 06:05 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Please specify: Intercity? Interstate?
Yes, long distances. Highway trips. Anywhere from 1/2 hour to over 24 hours. Buses as trains, basically, since trains are incredibly difficult to achieve in many places.


Careful when you go down that road. It may start off with good intentions, but segregation invariably leads to integration and well all know what happens after that.
I really dislike segregation, classism, etc. but I have to admit that even as an egalitarian person, I see behavior and hygiene issues that warrant segregation away from some people that has nothing to do with anything about them besides how they choose to care for themselves and behave.

There is already segregation built into the fly/drive/bus transportation. People are segregated economically into taking buses and many people who can afford to fly do so not just because taking a bus takes longer but because the people are more 'deplorable' in many ways. If you would try integrating buses and air travel to ensure there's no segregation, you would probably run into as much trouble as if you tried getting everyone to ride the bus with all the other people they 'deplore.'

I'm sure there is also classist segregation between different airlines, which have different pricing for tickets. Driving allows everyone to segregate away from everyone else, except at rest stops, and then you can segregate away from those by stopping at a restaurant or someplace else that charges premium prices. Even filling stations segregate people into class rankings by pricing, don't they?

Considering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?
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Old 04-26-19, 02:48 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Yes, long distances. Highway trips. Anywhere from 1/2 hour to over 24 hours. Buses as trains, basically, since trains are incredibly difficult to achieve in many places.




I really dislike segregation, classism, etc. but I have to admit that even as an egalitarian person, I see behavior and hygiene issues that warrant segregation away from some people that has nothing to do with anything about them besides how they choose to care for themselves and behave.


There is already segregation built into the fly/drive/bus transportation. People are segregated economically into taking buses and many people who can afford to fly do so not just because taking a bus takes longer but because the people are more 'deplorable' in many ways. If you would try integrating buses and air travel to ensure there's no segregation, you would probably run into as much trouble as if you tried getting everyone to ride the bus with all the other people they 'deplore.'


I'm sure there is also classist segregation between different airlines, which have different pricing for tickets. Driving allows everyone to segregate away from everyone else, except at rest stops, and then you can segregate away from those by stopping at a restaurant or someplace else that charges premium prices. Even filling stations segregate people into class rankings by pricing, don't they?


Considering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?

Do you have anyone at home you can bounce these ideas with? Someone, anyone that knows the difference between freedom of choice and segregation? Someone you can ask about your idea for making bus travel more popular by restricting some people? It sounds like you live alone because my wife would never accept the ideas you just espoused for making a bus ride better.
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Old 04-27-19, 11:01 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Do you have anyone at home you can bounce these ideas with? Someone, anyone that knows the difference between freedom of choice and segregation? Someone you can ask about your idea for making bus travel more popular by restricting some people? It sounds like you live alone because my wife would never accept the ideas you just espoused for making a bus ride better.
I have no idea what "ideas" you are talking about. There is segregation built into transportation and retail in the ways I described. If you want to argue about it by talking with your wife at home, that's your business. That has no relevance to this discussion.
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Old 04-27-19, 12:38 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I have no idea what "ideas" you are talking about. There is segregation built into transportation and retail in the ways I described. If you want to argue about it by talking with your wife at home, that's your business. That has no relevance to this discussion.
Really? This is your idea that you came up with all by yourself?

ďConsidering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?

You donít discuss these things face to face with anyone?
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Old 04-27-19, 08:50 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Really? This is your idea that you came up with all by yourself?

Considering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?

You don’t discuss these things face to face with anyone?
Apparently you have a problem with discussing them here. Otherwise why would you be shifting attention to my personal life, as you have not unfrequently done in the past. I guess there are just some things you are so afraid of discussing that you feel a need to demonize me on a personal level. Maybe you are afraid something I say might have credence to someone who reads it so you have to point out I'm a loner or that no one loves me or something, so that will cause readers to think there is something inherently wrong with giving consideration to anything I say. It's a dirty, ugly, weak discussion tactic and I can't understand how you would be so desperate to win at online discussion that you would resort to such blather.

If you want to discuss the thread topic generally or this sub-topic that has emerged about how to allow people to ride long distance buses without being subject to drunk and/or otherwise obnoxious people, why not just do that? Why use the thread as an opportunity to tease out personal issues about whether I have a wife, husband, live with my grandmother, a pet hamster, or whomever? My personal life is none of your business and inappropriate to bring up in a thread. If you continue to bring it up, I'll flag the post and ask the moderators to delete posts. Now I know that you are a bully who so hates to be told to stop anything that you will continue just to provoke further bickering, so please note that I will also mention that when I flag the post. So kindly either discuss the thread topic or don't participate in the thread.
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Old 04-27-19, 09:02 PM
  #64  
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Old 04-27-19, 09:26 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
If you want to discuss the thread topic generally or this sub-topic that has emerged about how to allow people to ride long distance buses without being subject to drunk and/or otherwise obnoxious people, why not just do that?
That's easy. Raise the rates. Double the prices.


OK now that we've solved that problem, did you want to return to discussing how bus travel could be made better?

Why not look up coach travel in other countries than your own and see what they've got to offer?

Here's one from the UK:
https://www.nationalexpress.com/en/help/our-coaches
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Old 04-27-19, 09:59 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
Apparently you have a problem with discussing them here. Otherwise why would you be shifting attention to my personal life, as you have not unfrequently done in the past. I guess there are just some things you are so afraid of discussing that you feel a need to demonize me on a personal level. Maybe you are afraid something I say might have credence to someone who reads it so you have to point out I'm a loner or that no one loves me or something, so that will cause readers to think there is something inherently wrong with giving consideration to anything I say. It's a dirty, ugly, weak discussion tactic and I can't understand how you would be so desperate to win at online discussion that you would resort to such blather.

If you want to discuss the thread topic generally or this sub-topic that has emerged about how to allow people to ride long distance buses without being subject to drunk and/or otherwise obnoxious people, why not just do that? Why use the thread as an opportunity to tease out personal issues about whether I have a wife, husband, live with my grandmother, a pet hamster, or whomever? My personal life is none of your business and inappropriate to bring up in a thread. If you continue to bring it up, I'll flag the post and ask the moderators to delete posts. Now I know that you are a bully who so hates to be told to stop anything that you will continue just to provoke further bickering, so please note that I will also mention that when I flag the post. So kindly either discuss the thread topic or don't participate in the thread.
Dude, I was talking about the topic as per your suggested solutions. I simply added the quip about not bouncing the ideas off of anyone because I have never heard anyone suggest segregating a bus to make it better. Never not one ever till you posted it as a solution to a complaint.

"Considering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?"

That was from you, that was your suggestion not mine or anyone else's. I am simply in disbelief that you would suggest it. Since you posted it I thought you wanted to defend such a suggestion. Unlike promoting government sanction segregation I would suggest just looking into bus services that have the amenities some have suggested. I have seen them advertised with onboard movies and what looks like sleeping recliners. Too slow for my style of long distance traveling but there you have it. Not sure if you plan to segregate passengers will fly with the ICC or DOT.
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Old 04-28-19, 02:08 AM
  #67  
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No wonder cars are so popular..no comment...
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Old 04-28-19, 02:21 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
No wonder cars are so popular..no comment...

Yep ... the ultimate in segregation. Put each individual person in their own little enclosed compartment so they can go where they want to go in their own time. And listen to their own music, etc. And bring the people and stuff they want to bring ...
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Old 04-28-19, 08:58 AM
  #69  
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I meant how does a conversation about making buses better , lead to segregation?
. No wonder humans are always struggling to get around . When you think about it transportation of the most "evolved species " should not cost billions and do billions in damage to the environment.
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Old 04-28-19, 10:22 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
That's easy. Raise the rates. Double the prices.
For some of us, the more affordable the better. So there is a question of how to lower costs/prices while also improving quality. Automated driving could help. Disqualifying certain people from certain buses by giving them citations for drunkenness, rude/obnoxious behavior, etc. could also help.

Getting quality up and costs/price down is key to making buses more attractive as a mode of long-distance transportation.
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Old 04-28-19, 10:34 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Dude, I was talking about the topic as per your suggested solutions. I simply added the quip about not bouncing the ideas off of anyone because I have never heard anyone suggest segregating a bus to make it better. Never not one ever till you posted it as a solution to a complaint.

"Considering all this other class segregation is already going on, why would it be such a big deal to further segregate buses so that people who are drunk, unwashed, loud/obnoxious/rude, or somehow otherwise 'deplorable' would not be allowed to ride the polite bus? Would that be such a gross offense to equality in a way that all these other institutions aren't?"

That was from you, that was your suggestion not mine or anyone else's. I am simply in disbelief that you would suggest it. Since you posted it I thought you wanted to defend such a suggestion. Unlike promoting government sanction segregation I would suggest just looking into bus services that have the amenities some have suggested. I have seen them advertised with onboard movies and what looks like sleeping recliners. Too slow for my style of long distance traveling but there you have it. Not sure if you plan to segregate passengers will fly with the ICC or DOT.
You are notorious to spinning things I say into negatives to push me into defense. All you do when you respond to my posts is pick fights. I really don't see why you need to reply to my posts at all when all you do is obstruct good discussion.

Segregation is not talked about openly. If people pay more for one airline or bus carrier or hotel or store or filling station than another, it may have to do with something about product/service quality and/or it may have to do with choosing the kind of people they want to be around or avoid being around. It's not something people usually talk about openly, but it is plain to see if you are honest.

It already happens with buses where certain coach services are more expensive and some are even totally private, i.e. charter buses. All I said is that if Greyhound, the current low price leader, would cite passengers for certain behaviors, then those people wouldn't be allowed to ride on certain buses and it would encourage people to behave well, not drink/smoke, etc. You shouldn't have to pay more to ride on a bus with non-smokers, sober people, and people who are polite and avoid behaving in a rude/obnoxious manner. Those people shouldn't be totally excluded from travel if they don't improve their behavior, but they could be limited to taking certain buses and not others for the benefit of those passengers who put effort into boarding clean, sober, smoke-free, and stay polite.
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Old 04-28-19, 10:40 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by rossiny View Post
I meant how does a conversation about making buses better , lead to segregation?
. No wonder humans are always struggling to get around . When you think about it transportation of the most "evolved species " should not cost billions and do billions in damage to the environment.
Because that's the reality of why many people avoid buses, I think. Have you taken Greyhound? Have you noticed a difference between people taking Greyhound and people flying in airports? Class differences are subtle but they deter people from giving full consideration to all their options.

Buses are more fuel efficient than flying (though not as fuel efficient as trains) so it would be better if more people chose them over air-travel, but the challenge is how to make them attractive enough so more people will make the extra time sacrifice required to choose to take a bus a few hundred miles instead of flying or driving.
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Old 04-28-19, 12:52 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
You are notorious to spinning things I say into negatives to push me into defense. All you do when you respond to my posts is pick fights. I really don't see why you need to reply to my posts at all when all you do is obstruct good discussion.

Segregation is not talked about openly. If people pay more for one airline or bus carrier or hotel or store or filling station than another, it may have to do with something about product/service quality and/or it may have to do with choosing the kind of people they want to be around or avoid being around. It's not something people usually talk about openly, but it is plain to see if you are honest.

It already happens with buses where certain coach services are more expensive and some are even totally private, i.e. charter buses. All I said is that if Greyhound, the current low price leader, would cite passengers for certain behaviors, then those people wouldn't be allowed to ride on certain buses and it would encourage people to behave well, not drink/smoke, etc. You shouldn't have to pay more to ride on a bus with non-smokers, sober people, and people who are polite and avoid behaving in a rude/obnoxious manner. Those people shouldn't be totally excluded from travel if they don't improve their behavior, but they could be limited to taking certain buses and not others for the benefit of those passengers who put effort into boarding clean, sober, smoke-free, and stay polite.
I didnít have to spin anything thank you very much. You made your point. You confirmed your stand to segregate passengers in a bus and in fact to qualify for riding a bus. I shall not add or detract from your suggestions to make them anything different from what they are. I am satisfied we know where you stand.

I for one one am not for kicking people off the bus because I donít care for them or their place in society. I come from an ideology of if I donít like something I donít participate in that something. I am not however for kicking people off of a bus because they arenít like me. Your solution could be unconstitutional.
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Old 04-28-19, 07:52 PM
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I almost never ride the bus in Chicago because they are so dang slow. Here's how you can make them faster:
  • Dedicated bus lanes - this prevents the bus from having to constantly exit and enter traffic which is the biggest reason buses are so slow
  • Eliminate stops - some routes here in Chicago stop at 31st, 32nd, 33rd, 34th St, etc. All of these stops add significant time, especially in traffic. Let's say my house is closest to the 32nd St stop. Well, if I get off at 31st St and start walking towards 32nd, I'm usually there around the same time as the bus. Eliminating stops will hurt disabled people, however.
  • Express buses - these buses will only stop at the larger/higher traffic stops
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Old 04-28-19, 08:14 PM
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