Steel is Real.. Explain?
#126
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times
in
61 Posts
Steel is real.............heavy.
Steel is real.............flexy.
I love how so many people tout the properties of different frames (of any material) ...........then ride 23mm Gatorskins on their classic steel bike while they weight like 200 lbs.
Also, none of the hipsters bother to run tubs either. Being that a tub would be more traditional for the bike AND be more comfortable.
Put 23mm Gators on a Ti frame and 28mm Vittoria G+ on a cheapo Chinese carbon frame and I bet the cheapo Chinese carbon "rides nicer".
Steel is real.............flexy.
I love how so many people tout the properties of different frames (of any material) ...........then ride 23mm Gatorskins on their classic steel bike while they weight like 200 lbs.
Also, none of the hipsters bother to run tubs either. Being that a tub would be more traditional for the bike AND be more comfortable.
Put 23mm Gators on a Ti frame and 28mm Vittoria G+ on a cheapo Chinese carbon frame and I bet the cheapo Chinese carbon "rides nicer".
Last edited by Dr.Lou; 05-20-19 at 11:51 PM.
#127
Dirty Heathen
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 2,224
Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 897 Post(s)
Liked 950 Times
in
553 Posts
It rhymes better than “steel is sexy”
I don’t know about road bikes, but in the mountain bike world, “steel is real” has been a saying since at least the late 90s. Maybe longer. I assume it became a thing not long after aluminum bikes frames dominated the market.
I don’t know about road bikes, but in the mountain bike world, “steel is real” has been a saying since at least the late 90s. Maybe longer. I assume it became a thing not long after aluminum bikes frames dominated the market.
‘Why does this old-fashioned lugged steel bike cost more than this one with big swoopy aluminum tubes?”
“Because steel is real, man” (strokes goatee)
Also, steel is a much more forgiving material to fabricate with. All you need to build a bike is a torch and some brazing rod. A guy can do it in his garage.
Aluminum requires TIG welding and heat treating to be both strong and stiff enough for use, and thin Aluminum is really difficult to weld on. Titanium, too is known to be finicky as well.
Making a frame out of CF is pretty much out of the question for, say a one-man bespoke bike shop.
#128
Cycleway town
In the event of a nuclear war, when everything has been burnt, there will be no aluminium or carbon bikes. But a welded cro-mo steel frame will still be the same, just without it's paint.
Likes For MikeyMK:
#129
Senior Member
Frame material doesn't tell you a whole lot about how a bike will feel. Nor is "feel sluggish" even a particularly specific concern: are we talking about weighty or floppy handling, or pedal response, or what?
My 1983 Miyata 710 rides pretty similarly to my Emonda ALR. I've made their fits pretty close, the steering geometry is similar, and neither bike seems to care much about my pedal stroke.
They've also both got vibrant red color schemes, and they both came with midrange drivetrains featuring gearing considered low but not super-low for their respective era. Really, they're pretty much the same bike, made 32 years apart...
My 1979 Fuji America rides nothing at all like the Emonda or 710. Sluggish? No, just very different. Handling is similarly light, if less tight. Flex under pedaling forces is very noticeable, but not necessarily problematic. It's a temperamental bike. Pedal it in a way that it disagrees with and it angrily kicks back, but when it likes the power stroke, it rolls lively with it. It vaults explosively under high torque efforts. It's not my best climber, but punches above its weight on ascents.
Two days ago I took it on my weekly spirited shop ride. We chose a seriously brutal 50-mile loop that included 3 popular short regional climbs (roughly 3 to 11 minutes). The last time I did that full route, I was on the Emonda and rode my guts out on those hills. But this week, I PR'd every one of those ascents.
I do have a steel bike that feels sluggish. Riding my Velo Orange Campeur feels like pedaling a brick wall. Not because it's steel, but because it's a beefy loaded tourer. The legs just don't seem to engage with it very well at a high cadence, and so hard efforts rapidly drain the quads.
My 1983 Miyata 710 rides pretty similarly to my Emonda ALR. I've made their fits pretty close, the steering geometry is similar, and neither bike seems to care much about my pedal stroke.
They've also both got vibrant red color schemes, and they both came with midrange drivetrains featuring gearing considered low but not super-low for their respective era. Really, they're pretty much the same bike, made 32 years apart...
My 1979 Fuji America rides nothing at all like the Emonda or 710. Sluggish? No, just very different. Handling is similarly light, if less tight. Flex under pedaling forces is very noticeable, but not necessarily problematic. It's a temperamental bike. Pedal it in a way that it disagrees with and it angrily kicks back, but when it likes the power stroke, it rolls lively with it. It vaults explosively under high torque efforts. It's not my best climber, but punches above its weight on ascents.
Two days ago I took it on my weekly spirited shop ride. We chose a seriously brutal 50-mile loop that included 3 popular short regional climbs (roughly 3 to 11 minutes). The last time I did that full route, I was on the Emonda and rode my guts out on those hills. But this week, I PR'd every one of those ascents.
I do have a steel bike that feels sluggish. Riding my Velo Orange Campeur feels like pedaling a brick wall. Not because it's steel, but because it's a beefy loaded tourer. The legs just don't seem to engage with it very well at a high cadence, and so hard efforts rapidly drain the quads.
Likes For HTupolev:
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,601
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1812 Post(s)
Liked 1,336 Times
in
777 Posts
"Steel is real" is just one of those catchy but silly sayings. I have had TI, AL and steel bikes. Never had CF but for no particular reason. Currently I have a steel Guru that I absolutely love. It weighs in at about 17 lb. 13 oz. I also have a CAAD 12 (new and 105) that is amazing. A Masi roadie that is AL and a Colnago cross bike that is AL. The only thing that puts me off CF is the price of a quality frame. Equivalent AL and CF quality frame bikes will get you better components with the AL for the same price. Just my opinion.
Likes For bruce19:
#131
Senior Member
Similarly, I have a nice vintage steel sport/tour frame/fork that I completely updated with modern wheels, 2x10 drivetrain, brakes, shifters, handlebars, etc. - feels like a brand new bike for about $800.
#132
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,601
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1812 Post(s)
Liked 1,336 Times
in
777 Posts
I bought this Guru Sidero (steel) from a racer friend for $1200 about 3 years ago. It came with Ksyrium Elite clincher wheels and all SRAM mid-range. She had ridden it about 3 times and it just didn't fit right. In any event, over the years I have upgraded it to SRAM Red and Ksyrium Elite USTs. I love this bike.
#133
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,661
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18594 Post(s)
Liked 16,085 Times
in
7,549 Posts
Steel is the deal!
#134
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,542 Times
in
806 Posts
I rode a very fine steel road bike to work this morning. Adjectives that came to mind as I experienced the ride just moments ago?
impeccably behaved
exquisite
refined
responsive
exhilarating
Wait. What were we talking about again?
impeccably behaved
exquisite
refined
responsive
exhilarating
Wait. What were we talking about again?
#136
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Last night, on the recommendation of my fish market, I tried Carbon fiber-head trout for the first time. Sorry, but I cannot recommend.
#137
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,485
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6286 Post(s)
Liked 4,329 Times
in
2,425 Posts
exquisite
refined
responsive
exhilarating
While I agree (and have pointed out many times) that steel as a material is stiff while aluminum and titanium aren’t, it’s the way that the material is used that makes for a stiff bike. But most people don’t buy steel bikes because they are “stiff”. They want a softer, more cushioned bike that come from the way that the way the material is used. Aluminum bikes are stiff because of the size of tube they use. Steel bikes are flexible because of the size of tube that is used.
light
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Likes For Happy Feet:
#139
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#140
Senior Member
Thread Starter
whether it was just a resurgence of a love for steel frames because of this or that or what..
Id personally be fine with a steel frame bike.. I think for touring many miles it may be the best bet..
sure I think Carbon or Aluminum could tour and have toured.. Where I think Steel would do best is lugging weight and if you somehow damage the bike on your expedition.. It would be the easiest to repair if it is something frame related..
This is my humble opinion.. I do mean humble because you guys are much much more experienced than I am. I feel like I am really only just learning now.. When I was a kid I knew basics about bikes and fixing things that went wrong.. But I really didn't know jack diddly squat then.. and I am trying to learn jack.. then diddly.. after that.. I'll try to learn some squat.
#141
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I agree I don't like when threads go to insults.. I really had nothing against steel.. I just kept seeing steel is real and truly wanted to know
whether it was just a resurgence of a love for steel frames because of this or that or what..
Id personally be fine with a steel frame bike.. I think for touring many miles it may be the best bet..
sure I think Carbon or Aluminum could tour and have toured.. Where I think Steel would do best is lugging weight and if you somehow damage the bike on your expedition.. It would be the easiest to repair if it is something frame related..
This is my humble opinion.. I do mean humble because you guys are much much more experienced than I am. I feel like I am really only just learning now.. When I was a kid I knew basics about bikes and fixing things that went wrong.. But I really didn't know jack diddly squat then.. and I am trying to learn jack.. then diddly.. after that.. I'll try to learn some squat.
whether it was just a resurgence of a love for steel frames because of this or that or what..
Id personally be fine with a steel frame bike.. I think for touring many miles it may be the best bet..
sure I think Carbon or Aluminum could tour and have toured.. Where I think Steel would do best is lugging weight and if you somehow damage the bike on your expedition.. It would be the easiest to repair if it is something frame related..
This is my humble opinion.. I do mean humble because you guys are much much more experienced than I am. I feel like I am really only just learning now.. When I was a kid I knew basics about bikes and fixing things that went wrong.. But I really didn't know jack diddly squat then.. and I am trying to learn jack.. then diddly.. after that.. I'll try to learn some squat.
I don't think anyone thought you weren't being civil. I think the comment was aimed at some of the "idiot" talk that was getting thrown around (not by you).
#142
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,660
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montańa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times
in
412 Posts
While steel frames can be repaired by an expert, I doubt a regular village welder could weld thin bike tubes easily.
#145
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#146
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
#147
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,661
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18594 Post(s)
Liked 16,085 Times
in
7,549 Posts
#148
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,661
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18594 Post(s)
Liked 16,085 Times
in
7,549 Posts
I know a guy who rides a bamboo road bike regularly and has for years. I know another guy who used to make them from a wild grove of bamboo that grows along a riverbank just outside of Philly.
#149
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
I take it back, I'd try riding a bamboo bike.
I'll bet with a couple of strategically placed holes, you could get it to make a musical sound when you ride fast.