Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

$1270 to save 1/2 lb at the rim?

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

$1270 to save 1/2 lb at the rim?

Old 06-12-19, 03:53 AM
  #26  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,925
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 925 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Would you spend $1270 for new wheels to save 223 grams (7.87 oz) if all the weight savings were at the rim?

The new wheels would be exactly the same as the existing wheels except for much lighter rims. Assume for now that the hubs, spokes, nipples, tires and tubes are already as light as they can go.

The bike flies and I've no need for new wheels. This would be a luxury purchase.

Wheels would be built by ProWheelBuilder and come with 2 year warranty and lifetime 25% off crash replacement. I could probably sell the existing wheels for a couple hundred.

This is on a sub 16 lb bike.


-Tim-
No. I would take off a water bottle and add an extra water stop to my route. That's at least a pound and a lot cheaper.
seypat is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 04:06 AM
  #27  
rayooo
Senior Member
 
rayooo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Allamuchy, NJ
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Ah, ah, life's conundrum yet again. I've definitely "justified" spending $$ on all kinds of bike parts/pieces to save a few grams here and there. Sometimes even fairly substantial amounts.

No doubt I'd not spend $$ on wheels that weigh more than my current wheels do, even if the bling factor was huge. so, the weight savings along with some amount of new/bling/cool factor generally tips the scale in the "buy'em now, don't wait" direction for me.

If you've got the dough, buy'em now, don't wait!
rayooo is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 08:23 AM
  #28  
Esthetic
Senior Member
 
Esthetic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bridgewater , NJ
Posts: 404

Bikes: 2017 BMC TeamMachine SLR02 Di2* 2017 Diamondback Podium Equipe Etap*2018 Cannondale CAADX Ultegra* 2017 Giant Roam 1

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Shallow. Boyd 28 clinchers.


They would replace H+Son Archetypes.




The bike has an Enve flat top aero bar if only for comfort and looks, and I supposed the Enve 2.0 fork is aero enough but tubes are round and the bike isn't designed with aero in mind. Increasing aerodynamics would not be a benefit. All the benefit would be weight. I'm not a particularly powerful rider.

If anyone knows of a lighter/cheaper rim brake carbon clincher then I'm all ears.


-Tim-
I'll just say i absolutely LOVE Boyd wheels. Both a fan of the Altamonts and 44's.

If you wanted to save money the Altamont Ceramics are the finest aluminum clinchers i've ever had with fantastic braking and feels with the Swisstop BXP Blue pads.. I bought a lightly used second hand custom built with I9 Torch hubs for about $880, that most likely cost the OG owner close to what you are paying due to the hub cost.

The set was about 1470g and ran them tubeless. I love their balance of strength and width for a box rim and knowing despite it being light it is also a strong wheel suitable for CX. I'm a 190lb rider.

I'll leave a few pron pics of them.
Esthetic is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 08:51 AM
  #29  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,469
Mentioned: 163 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8604 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times in 218 Posts
Depends? Are they red?
indyfabz is online now  
Old 06-12-19, 09:17 AM
  #30  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,197
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2911 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Shallow. Boyd 28 clinchers.



If anyone knows of a lighter/cheaper rim brake carbon clincher then I'm all ears.


-Tim-
15 grams heavier, but boatloads cheaper.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/Carbon-...g-surface.html

For the same weight, you can also get 35mm deep hoops.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/carbon-...g-surface.html
noodle soup is online now  
Old 06-12-19, 09:51 AM
  #31  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Thread Starter
 
TimothyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,163

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6439 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 227 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
No. I would take off a water bottle and add an extra water stop to my route. That's at least a pound and a lot cheaper.
Water bottles are not rotational weight.

Unless you are talking about the Rapha spin?





-Tim-
TimothyH is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 10:34 AM
  #32  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 406

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Water bottles are not rotational weight.

Unless you are talking about the Rapha spin?





-Tim-
can you post a tutorial on this? What should I google?

i saw a friend do this once (cat 3) and I thought it was the most pro thing ever. Even more than a 40mph sprint.
smashndash is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 10:53 AM
  #33  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,925
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 925 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Water bottles are not rotational weight.

Unless you are talking about the Rapha spin?





-Tim-
One could argue that once the heavier rotational wheel gets up to speed, it will roll farther down the road than the wheel with less rotational mass. Cue the engineers, scientists, etc. so they can argue about it until the thread gets closed. What you did not include in your opening statement is what type of fashionable kit you will be wearing when you ride down the road on those $1270 1/2lb weight saving wheels. You're slipping.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 06-12-19, 02:15 PM
  #34  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,643

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Since you've already reached the point of extreme diminishing marginal returns, you're going to have to spend a lot to get a little. I would do it if having a light bike was important to me, but my wabi wheels are good enough for my FGJRA.
kingston is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 03:36 PM
  #35  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Thread Starter
 
TimothyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,163

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6439 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 227 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
One could argue that once the heavier rotational wheel gets up to speed, it will roll farther down the road than the wheel with less rotational mass. Cue the engineers, scientists, etc. so they can argue about it until the thread gets closed. What you did not include in your opening statement is what type of fashionable kit you will be wearing when you ride down the road on those $1270 1/2lb weight saving wheels. You're slipping.
I didn't mean to upset you and hope I didn't. That wasn't my intent.

My focus is on rotational weight at the rim. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear.



Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Since you've already reached the point of extreme diminishing marginal returns, you're going to have to spend a lot to get a little. I would do it if having a light bike was important to me, but my wabi wheels are good enough for my FGJRA.
This is exactly on point and all the math keeps coming up short. The conclusion I keep coming up with is that the return isn't worth the investment.

I have the Wabi Sub-15's on my Bianchi. I should slap them on the Rodriguez and see how it rides.


Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
can you post a tutorial on this? What should I google?

i saw a friend do this once (cat 3) and I thought it was the most pro thing ever. Even more than a 40mph sprint.


A bike forums classic...

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ll-me-how.html


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 06-12-19 at 03:41 PM.
TimothyH is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 03:56 PM
  #36  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,643

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The conclusion I keep coming up with is that the return isn't worth the investment.
I stopped thinking about bike parts as an investment a while ago. If it makes me happy, I just buy it. You gotta spend your money on something.
kingston is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 04:23 PM
  #37  
Wildwood 
Veteran/Pacifist/Resister
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 8,527

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1749 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 67 Posts
From what I read - tubular will get you the greatest weight reduction at the rim.
That's the way to go at some price points.
How hard core racy is this bike?

A vote for tubulars on the S3 Rodriquez.
(tubular tape is super easy - home install or on-road replacement)


I've gone aluminum tubulars for my vintage (and newer) bikes and been happy with perkier acceleration on each.
__________________
70sFollis 072/71 Bottecchia Giro d Italia/72 Zeus Competition/78 Batavus Competition/80 Mondia Super/81 AustroDaimler Olympian/82 Harding(Holdsworth) Special/84 Pinarello Record/85 EM Corsa Extra/86 DeRosa Pro/88 Falcon Race/99 Pinarello Cadore/99 Calfee TetraPro/03 Macalu Cirrus/04 Tallerico: The less ridden = '97 CoMotion tandem + city bike, mtn bike, beach cruiser

Last edited by Wildwood; 06-12-19 at 04:30 PM.
Wildwood is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 04:55 PM
  #38  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,091
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7984 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Water bottles are not rotational weight.

Unless you are talking about the Rapha spin?





-Tim-
This just never gets old.

I love all the sunglasses everywhere except his eyes.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 04:59 PM
  #39  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,091
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7984 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 125 Posts
Also, I need to start carrying a water bottle again.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 05:39 PM
  #40  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,925
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 925 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
This just never gets old.

I love all the sunglasses everywhere except his eyes.
What is impressive is how they can carry a huge road atlas AND a stand up floor pump somewhere on their person. It must be tucked in their shirts. Maybe in a sock.

seypat is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 05:44 PM
  #41  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,925
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 925 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Speaking of classic threads, someone has to say it. If you are trying to save weight, you need to go with MEILENSTEIN LIGHTWEIGHT WHEELS or go home. Simple enough.
seypat is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 06:57 PM
  #42  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Thread Starter
 
TimothyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,163

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 222 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6439 Post(s)
Liked 351 Times in 227 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I stopped thinking about bike parts as an investment a while ago. If it makes me happy, I just buy it. You gotta spend your money on something.
"Investment" was a metaphor.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 06-12-19 at 07:08 PM.
TimothyH is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 09:05 PM
  #43  
Rogerogeroge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'm 5' 10" and went from 198 lb to 170 lb last winter, so I feel like I'm good.






Thanks. I'm going to email them but here is the rub...

The bike is fixed gear and the hubs use 15 mm track nuts. To be clear, it isn't a track bike and will never be ridden on the velodrome. It is used exclusively for road riding.

As a general rule, track hubs are not light but the ones on the bike now are about the lightest available - 176 g front/224 g rear - and go for about $150/pair. ProWheelBuilder would build the wheels around them with whatever rim, spoke and nipple I choose.

The front could use a traditional road quick release but I'm not going to save much weight and it would drive up cost. I want matchy-matchy hubs for the sake of pride anyway.

If a company like Light would build a wheelset around my hubs with their rims at $700 and they came close to 1300 grams then I'd go for it.


-Tim-
Since the weight savings is at the rim (furthest out from the axle), You get the most benefit, but if affects acceleration. If you're not riding your fixie on a velodrome, then how important is acceleration? I wouldn't think much, hence you won't feel much difference.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 09:41 PM
  #44  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,197
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2911 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
"Investment" was a metaphor.


-Tim-
I hate when someone says their bike related purchase was an investment.
noodle soup is online now  
Old 06-12-19, 09:53 PM
  #45  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,083
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1698 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Would you spend $1270 for new wheels to save 223 grams (7.87 oz) if all the weight savings were at the rim?
No.

The "value" will mostly be in being able to brag about how light they are.

Congratulations on having $1270 just burning a hole in your pocket.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 09:58 PM
  #46  
Robert A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 398

Bikes: 2019 CAAD12, 2015 Specialized Sirrus Comp

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Carbon clincher and rim brake...I wouldn't do it. Saving weight or not.
Would you do carbon tubular and rim brake (say, quality used Zipp 303s)?
Robert A is offline  
Old 06-13-19, 11:27 AM
  #47  
wipekitty
vespertine member
 
wipekitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: from sea to shining sea!
Posts: 2,107

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 567 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post


The bike is fixed gear and the hubs use 15 mm track nuts. To be clear, it isn't a track bike and will never be ridden on the velodrome. It is used exclusively for road riding.
IMO this is the important point. Most FG stuff that I come across is low-end junk that functions better as art than bike equipment, or is tough and heavy to withstand the urban riding environment (for e.g. messenger work), or is specifically intended for the velodrome where wind is not a factor.

The price seems entirely reasonable for what you are after; it's something fairly unique and custom. There are just not a lot of pure fixed gear road bikes that are not also used for urban riding tasks (where shaving grams is less of an option).
wipekitty is offline  
Old 06-13-19, 11:50 AM
  #48  
f4rrest 
Farmer tan
 
f4rrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 7,990

Bikes: Allez, SuperSix Evo

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I hate when someone says their bike related purchase was an investment.
Walton brothers invested in Rapha.
f4rrest is offline  
Old 06-13-19, 11:53 AM
  #49  
f4rrest 
Farmer tan
 
f4rrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 7,990

Bikes: Allez, SuperSix Evo

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2869 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Another vote for tubulars, because weigh, ride quality, price.

Just sell a Rapha bib to finance it.
f4rrest is offline  
Old 06-13-19, 12:16 PM
  #50  
hsuehhwa 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Huntington Harbor, CA
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yes, if FTP > 3.5 watts/kg

3.5 -- 2.8 : yes or no.

No, if FTP < 2.8 watts/kg, the money could be better spent improving oneself.

If you don't have a power meter to measure FTP yet, the money should definitely be spent to procure a power meter first.
hsuehhwa is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.