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Old 06-16-19, 10:36 PM
  #676  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
Some work yet to be done. I've seen some data on the Speedplay Aeros, ERO Sports showed 3-5W over the std pedals. Not much out there on shoes but thinking about going to lace up like Empires or Sub6. What are the fast youngsters using?
Based on aerotesting last year at ERO Sport, Giro Empires are demonstrably fast shoes. With the general concept being laced shoes are faster than boa shoes.

Ive done all my bike fits at ERO since I first showed up on a $600 road bike and didnít know any better, and then I went to Jim before I bought a TT bike just to get started right. I have a lot of confidence in my equipment- sometimes from personal experience with aero testing and sometimes just because Jim tells me XY or Z is fast for everybody. Some of my gear is expensive but a lot of it is not.

Iím interested in aero but not in chasing every idea that some guy thinks is fast. I basically just go to the source, the person I know who lives and breathes aero testing, and I listen to him. Blended with listening to Ex because I get it that aerotesting on an indoor velodrome is not going to 100% give you the same results as racing on the road, where the pavement and winds and temperature may play a role as well. Plus some things are impractical to aerotest for individuals- like tires. So you donít really 100% know your optimal set up from aerotesting, some of it you gain from racing and seeing what results you get. This is my most efficient approach- mostly I follow the advice of two people who I consider experts and take everything else with a grain of salt. Itís hard in casual conversation to understand where people get their info, for me personally I need a pretty solid exchange of ideas, an actual back-and-forth conversation, before Iím convinced to lay out $ on something aero.

Anyway, Iím happy to share my gear/equipment list if itís of interest. Or you can just PM me anytime if you have a specific question. I canít always speak to what other people have but I know what I have and why it was chosen.
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Old 06-17-19, 05:41 PM
  #677  
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Junior said he needed to pre-run and see the HR to set the target based on perceived effort.
Set the rate on PRE to the venue, then run on HR during event.

Just like choosing tire pressure.
I am amazed at what the trained human body can perceive (I can typically guess .010" within 3% - bored thing I do with calipers).
Wurf, Finney, Cancellara and many elite runners and rowers do this. Some kinda zen zone thing.

Last edited by Doge; 06-17-19 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 06-17-19, 06:54 PM
  #678  
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@Heathpack, thank you for passing on the shoe info. I may have to make a trip out to ERO one of these days, a unique service and would be an interesting experience.
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Old 06-18-19, 09:14 AM
  #679  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
@Heathpack, thank you for passing on the shoe info. I may have to make a trip out to ERO one of these days, a unique service and would be an interesting experience.
ERO / Jim Manton is a great service for fitting and testing. My wife and I have over 12 hours of testing. It is different from tunnel testing in that one has to ride several laps per test to get a reliable result. The technology is a series of wifi sensors embedded under the track that collects speed and power data from the bike as on rides around the track. ERO has a mathematical model for the track that converts the live data to CdA instantaneously as one rides along the track that is diplayed on a laptop.

In general, it takes about 10 laps per test so a 200 lap session is pretty typical for a 3 hour testing session which is actually pretty hard on the athlete. Speeds do not have to be that fast but he likes a couple of fast laps per test since rider position can change for the better or worse at higher speeds.

When they announced the services a few years ago, we were beta testers for the service. The moment we heard about it, we were in. Over the years, ERO has serviced international and pro teams / individuals and has a large data base of human performance. So when one gets a fit by ERO, they know who is on the top of the pyramid with respect to equipment and positions. Interestingly, there are some trends where a certain position seems faster but there are athletes that are outliers such that one has to test and it is insufficient to assume that if tilting the aerobars up works for some it will work for all. It does not.

The downside of ERO is that they do not stock a lot of equipment so that one can test such as helmets. They may have a couple available so if an athlete wants to test a helmet, then one has to show up with the whatever they want to test and compare. To say it another way, one cannot test the five leading aero helmets against each other unless you show up with five helmets. For sponsored international and pro teams, this is not a problem. For amateurs with finite budgets, it limits what we can do in practice.

Last year, my wife did an aero test and for fun, we did a test where I rode behind her. My theory was that my pressure wave would interact with the disturbed air coming off her body and lower her CdA. The result was amazing. I lowered her CdA by 5% by riding behind her 6 inches from her wheel. So when we ride on the road and I ride behind her, we go fast for not a lot of power. The caveat is she has to ride in a perfectly strait line so that I can set up behind her for the wind conditions. If she is moving around a lot on the road, the effect is reduced.

Is ERO worth the cost? I like my own data and find discussion among and with racers / coaches very noisy. Somewhere within the noise are facts but it is impossible to differentiate what works for me. Testing allows me to stay ahead of the curve. YMMV
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