FlashBazbo

I've run tubeless on my gravel bike for some time now, but I've resisted going tubeless on my road bike. For one thing, I very rarely have a flat on my road bike (none this year, so far) and, to this point, flat resistance has been the major selling point for road tubeless. Besides, with tubes, I could store my road bike for extended periods without worrying about what the stored immobile sealant might do. When I pull it off the rack, I air the tires and go. No muss. No fuss.

But my resistance is weakening. According to the leading rolling resistance website, the Conti 5000 TL offers some real performance advantages compared to the tubed version (and the GP4000). I haven't heard anything boldly negative about the 5000 TL, but I haven't heard much about it in any context. Hence this post . . .

If you've used Conti 5000 TL tires for awhile, what are your thoughts? Because I would be riding them for speed, not comfort, I would expect to ride the tires at maximum inflation pressure. Under that scenario, how do they perform? What are your impressions and experiences -- both good and bad?

Thanks, in advance, for your input.

robbyville

Ive got about 1500 miles on mine so far. I received what I believe to be one of the earlier batches.

Theu were fairly difficult to put on at first, required levers. They were easy to seat with a normal floor pump.

from a tread standpoint they’re lasting much longer than many of my previous tires which is certainly a good thing. I don’t know that I can feel a discernible difference in Ride quality or speed, but the durability is definitely a plus.

my only challenge is that both tires would shed cords off like crazy. both sides, both tires. I was constantly clipping them off and it was starting to worry me from a safety standpoint. Finally though, that problem seem to have subsided. My hope is that this was a minor quality issue in earlier batches and that others haven’t had the same challenge, but truthfully I’m probably put off enough that I’ll try a different tire when time comes.

The Dane Jensen

I love my GP5000's, I find them lighter than the 4000's with a better ride.

Branko D

Mainly I don't go tubeless because when I do have a flat (had only one so far this year, picked up this monster nail with my rear wheel, don't know if tubeless would have helped any) I can remove and reinstall the normal GP5000 tires with my hands and I'm afraid if I run into a puncture with the TL version where I have to install a tube to go on, it'll be really hard to wrestle the tire off and on.

Don't know about rolling resistance gains... they use chunky butyl tubes (Continental 28 race instead of race light / supersonic) for these comparisons. If you really want to drive the rolling resistance, you use latex tubes, still the best thing around for rolling resistance. TL offers an attractive mix of rolling resistance and flat resistance though...

Otherwise really like my GP5000s.

firebird854

I'm very impressed, I currently have the GP5000 tubless 28s. I just hit 2002 miles on them without a single flat (now I'm doomed...) I even did a solo double century Friday without any patches or tubes along (I'm brilliant right??), at one point I found I accidentally mapped through around 10 miles of loose, chunky gravel, and rutted fire-road (really Garmin? You didn't warn me of this when I created the route), I had no issues and continued on. I even hit a bump so bad the shock broke my Garmin 820 edge for awhile (on the same ride...), but I never encountered any tubeless "burping" or other issues.

MattTheHat 

I've got about 1,500 miles on my second set of 32mm 5000TLs. I've installed them on three different wheel sets. Install went super smooth on all three, with nothing more needed than a standard floor pump. I'm currently running with Orange Seal. With patience I can mount the tires without levers.

I don't *avoid* gravel, but I will say that I would not be running them if even 10 percent of my ride was gravel. I have one fairly technical area where I have to ride in the dirt down an off-camber curve and then jump on a new path. Half down hill and the other half uphill. Significant up hill. It's not fun losing traction while trying to hump it up hill in the dirt.

Otherwise, I have no complaints about the tires other than cost, and now I see Sigma has them at $51 each. They roll very nicely and are quite comfortable, even at max inflation. I currently run them at 72/82 PSI.

-Matt

base2 

I don't have the TL version, just the standard clincher & thus far I'd describe them as amazing. I also run Conti Supersonics to preserve as much sidewall suppleness as I can manage & (GASP!) Mr. Tuffy Ultralights for piece of mind.

They definitely feel faster than my previous tires [censored--for relevance] & the grip is nothing short of inspiring. I'd say at least equal to better than Vittoria Open Corsa III and much more longer wear life at least as long lasting as Vittoria Pro-Slick's.

How much "better" depends on where you are starting from. If you are on the fence, they are worth it. At $50 a piece, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set.

When I bought mine Amazon had 2-packs for $100 v/s $80 each at the LBS.

robbyville

Gives me new hope when I see others who don't have the problems I did with throwing cords. Hopefully was just a symptom of early batch. As mentioned I am pretty happy with the durability, especially compared to other tires I've used these last few years. Maybe I'll get another pair since they've started to come down in price!

jeffreythree

I recently put a set of 28mm 5000 TL's on a pair of Easton EC90 wheels as a road wheelset for my gravel bike. Easiest tubeless setup I ever had. I already like them better than the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires on another bike, but don't have enough miles yet to get a true since of longevity . Fast and plush at the same time, great for going fast on our chipsealed roads.

redlude97

I would suspect if you used a latex tube in the normal GP5000s that RR would be similar to the TL version so no need to go to the TL if that is your main concern and you want to avoid tubeless on the road. If you want to go tubeless for other reasons then based on everyone's experiences so far it should work fine

FlashBazbo

No. According to the published tests, the TL beats latex tubes. And besides, latex tubes are at least as problematic as tubeless. (I don't like baby powder.)

smashndash

“I already like them better than the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires on another bike”

This is quite the hot take. Have you tried the Corsa on the same bike as your GP5ks? The grip and comfort provided by the Corsas are supposed to be in a league of their own. At the cost of longevity and durability, of course. I’m fairly certain the 5k will last much longer than the corsa and flat less often. So if it is as comfortable and as grippy, then that is a game changer.

redlude97

At 100psi both the 25mm GP5000(latex) and GP5000TL tested at 8.9W.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...x-5000-tl-2018
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...000-comparison
At 80psi 10w vs 9.9w. They are the same. There is nothing problematic about latex tubes I've been running them for 5 years without a pinch flat and never use baby powder

NoWhammies

I almost took the plunge and picked up a set of the GP5000TL tyres this week as they were on sale. But I just couldn't quite do it. Not sure what was holding me back from pulling the trigger. Could be the fact that I have a Gavia AC1 downstairs and a warranty replacement for my Pirelli on the way.

UmneyDurak

Raced on Vittoria Corsa G+ and clincher version GP5ks. Meh the same in terms of grip. Although 5ks are even more fragile than Corsa, and I didn't think that was possible. Already had to replace two after Stage race due to sidewall cuts. After Road Race last Saturday found rear completely flat the next day. The front went flat after critirium race. Haven't bothered to look yet closely what punctured it. Honestly I wouldn't use them for every day riding.

FlashBazbo

I mounted a set of 5000 TL on my road bike last night. I just have one ride on them, so this isn't a full review, but I can give my early impressions and a direct comparison to a tubed set of the same size 4000SII mounted on the same wheels.

I mounted these on a set of ENVE SES 3.4 Disc wheels. These are wide wheels with a 21mm internal width, so they tend to make a tire wider than its marked width. The tires were no more difficult to mount than an equivalent size clincher with tubes. Not difficult at all. I used tire levers with mild pressure to finish the job. Wider tubeless tires are easier to mount -- but these weren't difficult, by any stretch. I use a booster pump and these tires inflated and seated very easily. Without sealant, one of the tires had an audible hiss at one spot on the bead. With sealant, both tires held pressure well from the beginning. (I put 1 oz. of Orange Seal regular sealant in the front tire and 2.5 oz. in the rear -- just to experiment to see if it makes a difference over time.)

Mounted on these wheels, the 25mm 5000 TLs measured 27.5 and 27.8mm wide. I would not be surprised if they stretch a bit wider over time. The 4000SII tires I previously mounted on these wheels measured 29mm wide when originally mounted.

First impressions: Inflated to 80 psi, the 5000 TL provides better damping of road vibrations / irregularities than the 4000SII. With the 4000SII, I could feel every tiny grain and feature of the road. Pumped up for speed, you could say they felt harsh. With the 5000 TL, it is almost as if there's a layer of insulation between you and the road. Smooth. This could be good or it could be bad. I'm not sure yet. In this morning's ride (my only one on these tires, so far), they didn't feel as lively as I like. The feeling was as if I were traveling slower or that the tires were heavier. I don't think either is true, but the sensation, to me, is one of heaviness. It remains to be seen if this sensation is just a passing impression. If I'm faster on these tires, it won't really matter.

How about traction? I haven't yet tested the cornering at the limit, but cornering traction was certainly adequate for the ride. As for braking -- the rear seemed to lock up a little more easily than with the 4000SII. Time will tell if it was the tire or me or a mistaken impression. We will see.

Are the tires fast? I don't know yet. Are they durable? For one ride, at least. Time will tell. I look forward to giving these a workout.

WhyFi

Smooth is often confused for slow... or rather, harshness is confused for speed and that lack of harshness is perceived as a lack of speed. Moving to supple, larger, lower pressure tires took me a few rides to get used to, but there's no going back.

August West

Well, if you change your mind Merlin sells them for $57.86 (no tax either) if you don't mind waiting a week or two for delivery.

But, I'm like you. Almost ready to give TL a try but haven't been able to pull the trigger yet. I really need to use up my existing stock of tires and tubes.

The Dane Jensen

I have both the GP5000 and the GP5000TL, I will say the 5000's are an improvement over the 4000's. I noticed the weight right away and the grip is excellent. I run 28's tubed and 25's TL. I find ride quality better on the 28's but 25's are nice as well. With the GP5000's you can't go wrong.

FlashBazbo

After 125 miles on the road with my 5000 TL's, my opinions of the tires are coming into sharper focus. I'm sure my impressions will shift or be refined with time but, since my memories of riding 4000SII tubed are still fresh, the comparison is easier to make now than it will be in the future. Compared to the 4000SII's, it seems to me . . .

• The 5000TL's are much smoother and more comfortable riding, even at the same pressures. Over the weekend, I dropped my pressures from 80psi to 70psi and I liked the change. The tires feel lively enough (I'm getting used to the smoothness) and on chipseal and broken pavement, the ride quality is a welcome improvement.
• Traction in a straight line is, to this point, not as good with the 5000TL's. They skid more quickly and easily when braking -- no loss of control, but a skid nonetheless. Also, there are some steep climbs in my area. On some of them, if the road is wet or damp, the 4000SII rear could break loose and I would lose traction. On those same climbs, the 5000TL is prone to lose traction even when it's dry. For that reason, I became conscious that I needed to either remain seated or move my backside way back when standing and pedaling on those climbs. So far, that means I'm slower climbing the steep stuff on 5000TL's. I hope I'm able to adapt my riding style to recover my lost speed going up these climbs. I don't look forward to taking those climbs for the first time on a rainy day.
• The 5000TL 25mm are still measuring in the neighborhood of 27.5mm on an ENVE SES 3.4 Disc wheelset. That compares to 29mm for the 4000SII tubed.

I have to admit that I'm concerned about the traction on steep climbs. I will keep working with these tires and see if additional tire wear or a switch in my riding technique bring things into line.

CarloM

After upgrading my clincher on my fitness bike to the Conti 5K I was sold. I definitely felt faster, and the ride felt smoother. So I was a little disappointed when I upgraded to 5K TLs on my tubeless setup on my road bike. Not because of performance, the gain was definitely there, but rather that the front tire has a pronounced wobble. The wheel is true, and the LBS even took the tire off, inverted it and felt for imperfections or tears, and couldn't find one. They re-mounted it, and the wobble is still there. Currently they have put in a claim with Continental (submitted the manufacture date on the tire) and hopefully Conti will see fit to replace it. I noticed the wobble within the first two days of normal riding. It might have been there on installation but honestly I didn't look carefully for it when it was installed.

smashndash

I’m surprised that you’ve noted the relatively poorer grip of this tire and your first thought is “How am I going to get up steep climbs?” and not “will this cause me to slide out in corners?”

There have been a few rumblings on the internet that the 5000 has less grip than the 4000. Continental claims better comfort, rolling resistance, puncture protection and weight - but not grip. We can read between the lines and basically assume that grip has been compromised, especially since Continental explicitly states that the speed gains have largely to do with the compound and rolling resistance correlates negatively with grip when it comes to compound choice. People have also been saying that 5000 seems to be a relatively long lasting tire. It isn’t any thicker at the center, so we can assume the compound is harder.

Unfortunately, there is not a single objective test in the entire industry for grip. If there were, we wouldn’t need to rely on marketing or rumors. We could just see the coefficient of friction on various types of road surfaces.

FlashBazbo

Look more closely at what I said. I said I was concerned about the fact that traction in a straight line is not as good. I'm not concerned about sliding out in corners because I haven't seen any traction difference in cornering. None. Because of a couple posts I've seen on this site, I was looking for it. But cornering grip appears to be fine.

And I'm not certain that the straight line traction won't improve after another hundred miles or so. New tires are often slippery until they see a little wear.

smashndash

And... do you think that straight line traction and cornering grip on single-compound tires are completely unrelated?

FlashBazbo

Perhaps not completely unrelated. But I also think that a cyclist exerts more force on the contact patch when braking from speed to a stop or when climbing a 17% grade than they do when cornering. I've spun a wheel many times on climbs with tires that I never lost traction with when cornering, even in extreme conditions.

Rather than assume that cornering grip is compromised, I have the benefit of having ridden these tires for a couple hundred miles now, over climbs and around sharp curves. I'm dealing not with theory but with reality. My experience tells me that cornering grip is not a problem. I'm not the only one in this thread who says the same thing.