TinyBear

I just can’t find a reason these e bikes or any bicycles are so expensive.

A E mountain bike hard tail starts around the $3500cdn. I can buy a very competent. Duel sport 250cc motorcycle new for $5000. That’s a bike that’s street legal has decent suspension and can be ridden anywhere. A fully suspended high end bike is in the $7-9 thousand dollars. Again can buy very high end dirt bikes for less than that.

It just don’t make sense to me. I want an e bike I really do. I think for my needs and with one. Leg weakened it help me a lot enjoy cycling again like I did before I got hurt. But the cost of entry is just too prohibitive. And I don’t know why.

unterhausen

It sounds like you are looking at high end bikes. That certainly is in line with pricing for similar non-assisted bikes

edwong3

One reason why e-bikes are more expensive is because generally, they're manufactured in much smaller quantities than standard unassisted bikes of the same type. The "economies of scale" are not in full force in order for the production costs to be close to what the non assisted bikes are. The main component, the battery pack is still pricey though through the years they are coming down in cost, and getting more energy dense. The motor and controller of course adds to the cost too.

There are much more reasonably priced e-bikes on the market of good quality if you look hard enough. And by the way, I find it funny that the comparisons you are making related to that e-MTB you mentioned are all MORE expensive while questioning the price point of that first bike.

But I'm sure my explanation is over simplified and someone who is an insider in the industry could probably talk your ears off with all the ins and outs of the production costs and retail pricing structures.

TinyBear

Yes but even non assisted bikes I thinks it’s crazy how much some cost.

A absolute top of the line enduro motorcycle. Ready to race KTM 300tpi six days. Is $12300, this is the bike many of the worlds best hard enduro racers ride. It is the top of the heap best enduro on the market arguably.

Yet take a look at a top shelf Trek E Mountain bike a Rail 9.9 and it’s standing at $15999.99. Almost $4000 MORE than a motorcycle that has the best suspension, breaks and tech in the enduro world. How and why?

It makes no sense and Just bothers me. I been riding duel sport motorcycles for many years and love it but have recently contemplated selling my last bike and get myself a e bikers better myself physically and hopefully prevent any further injuries. The bike I’d like is a Giant fathom 1. But at $4000 I think I stick to my current bicycles and just keep it to the street and bike paths and keep the duel sport bikes for trail use.

For comparison I had a Suzuki DRZ400. It was a middle of the road bike with decent components all around. Made about 40hp and though a tad heavy could be ridden aggressively and manage smalller jumps just fine. Great bike I found and was $8000 new. And again it was street legal and licensed for the road. And fully capable of highway cruising as well. Though not very comfy admittedly.

.

wphamilton

The question makes sense from the perspective of needing something to get around on and how much that costs. Don't forget to factor in the batteries which have to be replaced after enough charge cycles. Usually given as 300-500 cycles. We should look at it as, how much does that cost per mile, wearing out the batteries?


A little tedious, but picking a pack at random,


48 Volt 10 Ampere-hours pack is $665.

It has 480 Watt-hours (volts times amp-hours)

A full charge goes 24 miles (20 watt-hours per mile is generally given)

The full life of the battery is 12,000 miles (500 charges times 24 miles per)

Cost per mile is 5.5 cents


Compared to a small motorcyle, as OP is in his post

Gasoline costs $2.40 per gallon (local prices)

One gallon goes 60 miles (Japanese 250cc, some are allegedly even better)

Cost per mile is 4 cents


So even though electricity is dirt cheap by comparison, it actually would cost us more per mile for the ebike than for a small motorcycle.


In my opinion, it doesn't make economic sense unless you really like bicycles better in the first place. Enthusiasts will pay thousands for the bike, motor or not, so from their perspective it's not all that much more expensive.

linberl

Another thing to consider is that weight isn't an issue with motorcycles so components can be less costly, however on high-end bicycles weight is paramount and components are made of titanium and carbon fiber and many high-end bikes are even made by hand. Much lower labor costs on motorcycles compared to quality bikes; even bikes where frames are not handmade require considerable labor whereas motorcycles/cars can be more easily done robotically (for reasons of mechanics as well as economies of scale). Motorcycle manufacturers are churning out thousands of bikes whereas high-end cycle shops are turning out 1/10 of that.

base2 

20191114_154550 by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

Wow! I wish we had your prices!

It's a shame each petrol company is free to define each "market" to an area as small as a few blocks & then determine the wholesale price to squeeze the resident gas station owners to the maximum the market will bear & still remain in business. Irregardless of taxes or other strawman arguments about prices the owners get only pennies/gallon & we all pay for it.

We (the station owners & us consumers) are getting hosed enough that in dense populous areas like New York, Los Angeles, or Seattle the math on an E-bike might make a lot more cents.
(See what I did there? Cents! )

EDIT:
Using your math, it's 6.6 cents per mile for the scooter v/s 5.5 for the E-bike locally. The e-bike wins, but not by enough to ever recover the investment unless it's significantly cheaper than the scooter or we do apples/oranges comparisons with new/old. Locally new scooter prices are ~$2500, e-bikes start at ~$2500

TinyBear

what’s the cheapest reputable e Mountain bike or hard tail. Lowest I seeing it the giant fathom e+3
I’d love to get that bike but at $3000 I dunno.

I am not looking for commuting as works 40kms away and I start at 6am. So I commute by motorcycle in summer and car in winter. I want something for exercise and fun. And that’s a huge cost for a single use item.

Physically i think an ebikes is ideal for my use. But just don’t see the dollars and cents working.

But its not just e bikes. It’s all bicycles are getting out of hand price wise.

linberl

In Ca. scooters have to be registered and require insurance so you have to add in that cost along with gas and maintenance. Many folks can maintain their own bikes, and if not, the services cost is still less than a motorcycle service. And zero registration or insurance required.

linberl

Look at Radpower bikes. solid, dependable and affordable. https://www.radpowerbikes.com

wphamilton

When I'm tempted, which happens, I look at something like this https://www.amazon.com/Thegreatshopm.../dp/B07MD7MD9Q and then a cheaper (lower capacity) battery like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DR898GR/

$135 for the motor and $230 for the battery, put it on your MTB if you have one or pick up one used or online. All-in cost could be as low as $600. I wouldn't expect that motor to last, maybe no longer than the battery, but it would be fine for kicking around on the bike.

2old

You have a Giant which is a fine donor bike. As indicated above, procure a simple direct drive (DD) system (mine is four years old and operates perfectly - not surprising since a DD motor basically has one moving part). This will be heavy and cumbersome off road, so if you want better performance, consider a mid-drive for $500 or so plus whatever battery you choose.

fly135

If they ship to CA that Atom Lynx 6 is a rock'n deal.

https://www.crazylennysebikes.com/crazydeal/

That's only for using a throttle and not pedaling.

2old

Great deals on those BH bikes; they must be stuck with a bunch. Probably cost about 1/3 more in CA dollars (plus at least $300 if they ship to CA).

TinyBear

I like the look of some of those. But was hoping for a mid drive as I’m on the heavy side. But perhaps my uses at this stage of things are served well enuff by a hub drive.

fly135

I got my eMTB and street eBike from Lenny's at a great price. I don't think they get stuck with them. I think they find great deals where maybe the factory or distributors are stuck with a bunch. If I was looking for another eMTB, I'd jump on that deal before it's gone. Very similar specs to mine.

fly135

The one's in my link are mid drive.

TinyBear

Sorry I meant to quote the rad bikes (limberl s post)


the lynx looks awesome. But with exchange rate and shipping likely not feasible

2old

I should have stated that better; meant BH, not Lenny's.

fly135

I'm guessing it's still way less than your $3500cdn entry level hardtail. And a better eMTB.

alloo

Every year ebike prices come down and capability increases. The question that I have is do you want to work out or do you want to just twist and go? I ride my ebike and scooter to work one way commute 11 miles. I always have to run the scooter to keep it running. Do I miss the registration fees and insurance on my ebike, no. Do I miss the convienence of twisting and go sometimes. What is your purpose of your question? The same can be asked for cars vs motorcycles? Tunes ups are cheaper on my ebike needless to say parking is free on my ebike.

TinyBear

My goal is exercise and fun. If I want twist and go I have two motorcycles and two ATVS. I can be found off roading the one hike or ATVS every chance I get it’s my favourite pass time. I also love long touring trips on my motorcycle (last summer was 2000kms north to camp on James bay and travel the James bay highway (some of the most remote roads in Canada). So as you can see I love the out doors I love trails and I love exploring.


BUT There are many trails where I live that are bicycle and walking only. I miss riding those and I need/want to improve my health, strength (lost a lot of strength after being hit by a Car in a motorcycle accident) and Cardio.

As of now I can manage a couple trips around the block on my bicycle. Before fatigue and pain make it detrimental to push further (aka I can go further but then not likely to be able to ride the next day). My thought with the e bike was not to have a twist and go ease but to allow my to continue/resume the riding I enjoyed prior to getting hurt while slowly building the muscle and cardio back up.

That being said said I can’t justify huge expense to do so as It’s not needed. The thought was to sell my dirt bike motorcycle in exchange for the e bike. Just having hard time justifying that to myself I guess.

Buglady

I'm recovering from abdominal surgery and a chronic illness that took me off the bike in 2016. I was well enough to get back on my road bike six months after surgery in 2017, but I had lost so much strength and cardio that I kept pushing myself too hard and setting myself back even further. Last year I bought a pedal-assist e-bike which has allowed me to get back to riding to work every day, and I've made incremental gains in my overall fitness that I would not have been able to achieve without the pedal assist.

linberl

Get a hub motor kit and put it on one of your existing bikes. Leed's, Dillinger, Luna, etc. When you build up enough, then put the regular wheel back on and remove the battery.

TinyBear

I think my plan is I going to get my Hybrid bike tuned up next spring (have not ridden it since I got hurt in 2012) and see how riding goes on that. If still seem to burn out I think a hub drive kit on my Hard tail is the way to go.

Thanks all.

Weather was half decent yesterday so I got out on the Giant Boulder SE and managed the furthest I have done since getting hurt. Only maybe 4kms but the triumph is that I can still walk today which is kinda nice. Ankle hurts a bit but it’s working so that’s a plus. Was fun to get off the exercise bike for a change. Actually really excited for the future. Going to go dig out the other bike from storage this weekend.