Russ Roth

There are weight limits for road especially if you do anything related to the UCI. 17.5 equipped with everything but full water bottles is as nice as you really need weight wise, going lighter won't benefit a lot. Minimal gains now are in making sure that the moving parts are the best. I've got a real liking for Chris King for thru axle and Phil wood for square taper though for most of my bikes I cheap out. Only the racing bikes ever received those. King is nice since you can easily play with the grease/oil to have it spin a little easier on race day. Cup and cone bearings take the time to clean and grease and use a higher grade bearing and get them set just right, cartridge make sure they still feel smooth. It amazed me how many bikes seemed to have sticky der pulleys till one day I noticed the bike didn't back pedal smoothly, mine wouldn't spin by hand and the bike was amazingly fast with new, better ones. A little light oil to the freehub body means that it coasts a bit faster on the steep downhills letting you maintain top speed without pedaling. Latex tubes can be faster then rubber, try them and play around with tire pressure for what feels best, don't just hit the max pressure printed on the tire, you might find over a 100km you're faster at 90psi then at 100psi. Getting the bike dialed and kept there makes a big difference as well.

canklecat

sobre A lighter bike will help a bit on climbs. My early 1990s carbon fiber bike weighs around 20 lbs and is good for maybe 1 mph faster over my usual 20-50 mile rides on roller coaster terrain compared with my 25 lb steel bike. Ditto lighter wheels.

But what made the most difference was getting more aero kit. Just tighter fitting jerseys, more aero helmet, maybe shoe covers.

That's the best bang for the buck, compared with bikes, other than aero wheels. Then there are the debates over whether lighter weight non-aero or semi-aero wheels are better for climbs.

And getting lower on the bike, and staying lower. For me, that meant a lot of work in physical therapy and boring exercises like planking, the world's dreariest exercise. And slowing down my pushups and core work to maximize the effort per rep rather than getting as many reps as possible as quickly as possible. Hate it. But it helped.

Those two things will maximize the engine you already have. The faster you go, the more advantage to aero kit and body position. At my age (62) with only mediocre power (very middle of the pack for my age group), my engine ain't getting any better. I need all the help I can get. Losing weight was easy -- I just cut out the junk carbs and beer, other than that I eat as much as I like. The almost-daily physical therapy ain't easy, but it's free.

Check out this video from the recent time trial stage of the Vuelta a San Juan, in which Remco Evenepoel seemed to effortlessly cruise to the win, 32 seconds over the second place and more than a minute over the third place finishers. It was a short 15.5km stage with two climbs and he finished in less than 20 minutes... on a road bike, not a TT bike with aero bars.

That's what makes this video a good study. Due to the limited budgets of some participants, all competitors were required to use road bikes for this TT stage, although they could use aero wheels, helmets, etc. But no TT specific bikes or aero bars.

Watch carefully the different styles of the riders. Evenepoel was able to hold the "invisible aero bar" (or puppy paws position, as some call it) longer and more comfortably than most, while retaining good power. Most other riders couldn't hold that position for long, and switched hand positions frequently to the less aero positions -- including on the hoods, forearms parallel with the road. And some riders never feel stable in that position.

And if you study Evenepoel's style carefully, it's possible he could have done even better. His bike shifted side to side quite a bit under power, which probably cost a few seconds over the short TT course.

It sounds like the race you described will basically turn into a long time trial with lots of solo efforts unless you can partner up with one or two compatible cyclists. So this stuff can help.

BTW, Evenepoel's ride was at the beginning, so it's all within the first 15 minutes of the video. The rest of the video is just comparing the less efficient riders to him.

63rickert

Where are these road races? In US road racing on non-crit courses is just about gone. The road race (not a time trial) where you race alone most of the time does not exist. Riding alone in a road race means either you are on a solo breakaway or you have been dropped. If you were doing solo breakaways we would know your name. If you have been dropped basically you are no longer racing.

No equipment whatever creates the supposed benefit of 5 minutes. Bad equipment, equipment not working, rider who has chosen wrong equipment for the task, all might hold you back five minutes. Which is completely different than what was asked. If five minutes were available by buying something pro cycling would be even more crazy about equipment than it already is. Racing is still about legs, not bikes.

downhillmaster

$1,004.25 is the correct answer.

63rickert

Just re-read top post. OP is talking 5 minutes per hour from equipment. And guesstimating a 180km road race takes 8 hours. Wrong. No equipment gives five minutes per hour. And a 180km race even over extreme terrain (paved) is five hours or less. So OP is barely beginning at what he refers to as racing. Answer is same as always. Find a club. Find a good group of guys you enjoy riding with. Let them teach you. Start with a bike that works.

ridingfool

if you truly don’t know the answer . Then there is no need to go any lower it won’t help you at all

burnthesheep

I reread the topic and wanted to jump in now:

1. You don't have to ask this if you're in any road race in the states that matters that much. Your team will hand you a bike, and you will ride said bike.

2. Events with that kind of elevation or distance aren't going to be USAC races for our level, most likely. They're probably fondos. Maybe Haute Route. But, it isn't a USAC race. Given that, if we're talking fondos with timed segments.......sure, it'll save some ticks on the clock. But I'd bet you'd save more time buying a smart trainer and a coach and just making more power and weighing less yourself. Assuming you're not riding a cement mixer right now.

3. US road racing is crits. Road races are few and far between. They're often pretty flat. Your bike weight and maybe even aero won't hardly matter for squat unless your only hope is a breakaway artist. Even then, Cat 4/5 chases every freaking thing down. Cat 3 and faster? You'd have to be strong AF to get away.

I'd say an honest budget for someone who hasn't raced road yet is to find a $1500 used carbon bike with 11spd Ultegra on it. New cables, new chain, new cassette. Go race. Learn. Grow. Then buy some wheels. Then, if you must.........upgrade the frameset and move over the components.

Don't go buy a $8000 frameset for your first races. If you're rich, sure. Do it. Enjoy. If you're not rich, start with something you won't mind scratching up some and possibly laying down in a corner.

base2 

In re-re-reading this thread a tought occured to me: What if "race" is a regional colliqualism?

When my spouse & I travelled to Arkansas for a century ride, everyone called it a race. "Y'all here for the race? "Good luck with the race." "Have a good time on your race." Y'all came all the way here for our little race?"
It got a little weird when I tried to say it was more of a ride, maybe an afternoon tour, or simply a fun event, so I quit trying to correct them & just rolled with the hospitality.

I'm wondering how much of that applies here.

Agreed. If the OP doesn't know if going lighter than 16.5 pounds is going to help, or how little anything beyond that will ever matter, then theres nothing further to discuss.

AlmostTrick

Welcome to the board, sobre and thanks for the fun thread.

indyfabz

I think we have gotten enough serious responses that I can now post this:

canklecat

Yup. It's usually the "no-drop" group rides that turn into impromptu races. Or the t-shirt rides.

sobre

When I say "race", I didn't want to mean "oficial races"; they are more like minor fun events. Normally with no more than 200-300 people. Sometimes there is no even podium rewards; so practically everyone goes there for fun. However, that doesn't mean we don't care about times; even if its not competition, we all like to do our best to keep improving, sometimes there are cut-off times. Obviously, profesional people come to ride with us, for training, fun or for some podium rewards.

I'm living in Europe, here we have lots of events. And the ones I enjoy doing the most are the hilly ones, most of the times there are no many people (around 200-300); everyone with different rhythms, you are likely to be riding alone.

180km with huge elevation gain is not 5 hours or less. I dont know how skilled you are, but for most of the amateur players this is hardly achievable.
I'm talking about hilly races, and those 180km takes about 8 hours as average depending on the elevation gain, for example for me 180 km with 3000m takes me at least 8 hours.

sobre

I wasn't expecting to get as much answers and commentaries, and I really appreciate it because I was really lost.
Thank you so very much everyone because I have got all the answers and information I was looking for, and now I have a better idea and I will can use my money wisely.

And for all the trolls or other useless answers: Thank you as well, it was fun.

Happy Feet

In my experience here, General Discussion is about the worst place for getting random troll responses to questions. Much better to seek out the relevant sub forum and try there. Good to see you retained your sense of humour.

63rickert

When I was at my best, thirty years ago, a ride like that would have been 5 hours something. Less than 6 hours. And I might have done that having been at the start line with those who were racing, but it would be plain I was not really in the race. Yes, the fast guys would do the terrain and the distance described in around 5, maybe 5 and small change. Doing it now in 8 hours? On the flats 8 hours would be good now. For anyone, completing 180km and 3000 metres vertical at all is an achievement.

What you want is a bike that makes you feel good. Something that inspires confidence. Something comfortable for all day in the saddle. Extra weight never helps but featherweight is not necessary until speeds are much higher. Save some money for good shoes and good tires.

indyfabz

fify

himespau 

Are these road races or gravel? For some reason, I'd gotten it in my head that we were talking riding on gravel.

sobre

Road, no gravel.

Machka 

How much weight could you lose and not be considered underweight?

burnthesheep

My chip time for 102mi and 12500 ft was about 8 hrs including 30min for a flat. Lost the spare reaching for food earlier and got darn lucky a nice person have a spare. Meaning I rode about 60mi alone after the flat.

That time isn’t that unreasonable for a lowly amateur.

Toespeas

this question is impossible to answer , matching your bike to your body would be the first step , but in practice you could have the best bike money can buy and do terribly , or the worst bike and do great in your race and all types of combinations in between , there are just too many variable to say !

i personally would start by matching your body to your bike , study your position , seek out pro bike fitters , study the various heights and lengths or each area of the bike , make changes over time , use measurement tool like power meters to visualize the improvements or setbacks you get , its going to take time and practice , thats what pros do , you can get a base line from a bike fitter but over time you might get more flexible or sit in a different position , you have to just start paying attention to how the bike effects your body so you can maximize your efficiency in cadence and reduce fatigue of your muscles .

if you are trying to spend money to gain performance , start with your drive train , reduce as much friction as possible , craft a race day set up of parts that you dont train or ride daily with so they are fresh and clean , get high quality race wax and make sure the chain is perfect .

another thing you can do is recon the terrain so you can adjust your chain rings and cogs so the chain line is strait in the most common gear you will be using , that makes a huge difference up hills if your chain is slanted you will loosing 10s of wats compared to strait !

sean.hwy

2) What is considered a good enough weight?

3) what is a Cat 4/5 chases ?

burnthesheep

I look at the bike and rider together. I’m about 80kg combined. Plenty small for me. Also, it’s flat enough weight doesn’t matter too much here. Power does.

In 4/5 there are lots of little attacks by single riders that won’t succeed but everybody feels the need to immediately chase it down instead of letting the person burn their match and get dropped.

brianmatthew

The highest price of a road bike for hilly races can be under 2000$.
But you can always consider various options for best road bikes under 500 as these bikes have great features and one can easily win hilly races with these bikes.

KDR

I am amazed that I don't remember ever hearing about the excellent idea of adding weight to a bike and comparing times that way with times by the same rider on the same course without any added weight on the bike. I was going to ask how similar your fit/position is between the two bikes in question because seemingly small differences there can make a surprising difference in efficiency.