Park Chainchecker CC-4
#1
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Park Chainchecker CC-4
I always was a "metal ruler" guy to check chain wear because most traditional chain-checkers don't account for roller wear.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
#2
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Well they have been selling a useless tool for many years - that took them a while. I thunk I will still use my metal ruler.
Is it accurate?
Is it accurate?
Last edited by GeneO; 02-23-20 at 05:08 PM.
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#3
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Well, it is really hard to see for me if the ruler has 0.5%. I tension the chain with the crank with one hand and hold the ruler to the middle of a pin. but every time I move my eyes from one to the other pin it seems to move a bit. lol. On both my bikes the ruler looked the same to me at an estimated 0.25%. But on one bike the CC-4-dropped in, but not on the other. so my measurement isn't necessarily consistent. Also note that the chain may elongate differently over it's length. So you want to take multiple measurements. That really gets old with a ruler.
Maybe the CC-4 is still a bit overcautious, but at least not like the other tools. And the 0.5% rule is not a scientific rule. If you have cheap cassettes, it may be beneficial to keep the chains longer. if the cassette is extremely expensive compared to the chain, you may want to replace sooner. My plan is to jsut measure monthly and replace the chain when the tool falls in and be happy with that.
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No kidding. I had a CC-2 and it showed 0.25% on a brand new chain. Worst $27 I ever spent.
Well, it is really hard to see for me if the ruler has 0.5%. I tension the chain with the crank with one hand and hold the ruler to the middle of a pin. but every time I move my eyes from one to the other pin it seems to move a bit. lol. On both my bikes the ruler looked the same to me at an estimated 0.25%. But on one bike the CC-4-dropped in, but not on the other. so my measurement isn't necessarily consistent. Also note that the chain may elongate differently over it's length. So you want to take multiple measurements. That really gets old with a ruler.
Maybe the CC-4 is still a bit overcautious, but at least not like the other tools. And the 0.5% rule is not a scientific rule. If you have cheap cassettes, it may be beneficial to keep the chains longer. if the cassette is extremely expensive compared to the chain, you may want to replace sooner. My plan is to jsut measure monthly and replace the chain when the tool falls in and be happy with that.
Well, it is really hard to see for me if the ruler has 0.5%. I tension the chain with the crank with one hand and hold the ruler to the middle of a pin. but every time I move my eyes from one to the other pin it seems to move a bit. lol. On both my bikes the ruler looked the same to me at an estimated 0.25%. But on one bike the CC-4-dropped in, but not on the other. so my measurement isn't necessarily consistent. Also note that the chain may elongate differently over it's length. So you want to take multiple measurements. That really gets old with a ruler.
Maybe the CC-4 is still a bit overcautious, but at least not like the other tools. And the 0.5% rule is not a scientific rule. If you have cheap cassettes, it may be beneficial to keep the chains longer. if the cassette is extremely expensive compared to the chain, you may want to replace sooner. My plan is to jsut measure monthly and replace the chain when the tool falls in and be happy with that.
#5
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My excuse is that now chain checking is more fun and I do it more often. That way I don't miss changing a chain in time. It only takes saving one cassette or chainring not being wasted to pay for the tool. Also a good tool to evaluate used bikes and knocking off the price 😀
#6
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Notes: Because a chain must have a small amount of play in the links to run smoothly, the CC-2 will show a reading of .25% (or more) on new chains. This does not mean that the chain is .25% worn. It only means there is .25% play built into the links of the chain before it starts to wear. No matter what the reading of a new chain, it should be replaced when the CC-2 shows a reading of .75% (for 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-speed chains) or .50% (for 10, 11, 12-speed chains).
I have rulers too, but the CC-2 is so damn easy to use it's my go-to device. The real advantage is you can use it where the light isn't so good or in tight spaces where you can't see, and then take it off to read it in better conditions.
Last edited by DiabloScott; 02-24-20 at 01:02 PM.
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I, too, refused to buy a chain checker that didn’t account for roller wear/size. Too many stories of those things failing new chains. I bought a 6” ruler and 12” ruler instead.
Without taking the chain off, I had great difficulty using the 12” ruler. I assume you’re supposed to measure the chain under tension, so I tried to measure the upper drive portion of the chain. I couldn’t really fit the 12” ruler in there. So I tried the 6”. If my math isn’t wrong, 0.5% of 6” is 0.03 inches. 1/4 of 1/8”. How am I supposed to eyeball that? And how do I know I haven’t just positioned my ruler wrong? Heck, even with the chain off, 1/16” seems mighty hard to eyeball. Maybe I’m not doing it right. And if I’m being honest, I’ve compared rulers before and definitely seen ones that were off by that amount across 12”.
Anyway, I bought the CC4. Glad a skeptic like me is having a good experience. I’ve yet to use it
Without taking the chain off, I had great difficulty using the 12” ruler. I assume you’re supposed to measure the chain under tension, so I tried to measure the upper drive portion of the chain. I couldn’t really fit the 12” ruler in there. So I tried the 6”. If my math isn’t wrong, 0.5% of 6” is 0.03 inches. 1/4 of 1/8”. How am I supposed to eyeball that? And how do I know I haven’t just positioned my ruler wrong? Heck, even with the chain off, 1/16” seems mighty hard to eyeball. Maybe I’m not doing it right. And if I’m being honest, I’ve compared rulers before and definitely seen ones that were off by that amount across 12”.
Anyway, I bought the CC4. Glad a skeptic like me is having a good experience. I’ve yet to use it
Last edited by smashndash; 02-25-20 at 04:44 PM.
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I did pick one of these up and it appears to work well on my unstretched chain. Only minor complaint is you have to put a finger around the chain to properly tension it and this gets grease on ya.
It is an improvement over the CC-3.2.
Thanks for the heads-up.
It is an improvement over the CC-3.2.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Last edited by GeneO; 02-25-20 at 04:59 PM.
#9
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My imprecise way of checking a chain is to put it on a big chainring and pull to see how much of a gap there is between chain and teeth.
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#10
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Actually, it's the new model that doesn't account for roller wear. In theory, it checks the change in length, just like a ruler. The change in length is a true measure of the change in pitch, but that is due entirely to wear between the pins and inner plates and has nothing to do with the rollers. The old models exaggerated the elongation, by adding the roller wear and elongation. Campy chains don't increase in length nearly as much as most other brands. If the new park tool or a ruler is used to measure the length only, you may find .25% elongation after 6000 miles, but that does not mean that the chain is not worn out. The rollers and side clearance between plates will show extreme wear after this much use and the cassette it was used with will most likely have sprockets that skip with a new chain. Campy recommends a length check between the rollers, that is mostly roller wear and only a small amount of elongation. Both should be measured separately, if you really want to know what part of the chain in the most worn.
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Actually, it's the new model that doesn't account for roller wear. In theory, it checks the change in length, just like a ruler. The change in length is a true measure of the change in pitch, but that is due entirely to wear between the pins and inner plates and has nothing to do with the rollers. The old models exaggerated the elongation, by adding the roller wear and elongation. Campy chains don't increase in length nearly as much as most other brands. If the new park tool or a ruler is used to measure the length only, you may find .25% elongation after 6000 miles, but that does not mean that the chain is not worn out. The rollers and side clearance between plates will show extreme wear after this much use and the cassette it was used with will most likely have sprockets that skip with a new chain. Campy recommends a length check between the rollers, that is mostly roller wear and only a small amount of elongation. Both should be measured separately, if you really want to know what part of the chain in the most worn.
#12
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Actually, it's the new model that doesn't account for roller wear. In theory, it checks the change in length, just like a ruler. The change in length is a true measure of the change in pitch, but that is due entirely to wear between the pins and inner plates and has nothing to do with the rollers. The old models exaggerated the elongation, by adding the roller wear and elongation. Campy chains don't increase in length nearly as much as most other brands. If the new park tool or a ruler is used to measure the length only, you may find .25% elongation after 6000 miles, but that does not mean that the chain is not worn out. The rollers and side clearance between plates will show extreme wear after this much use and the cassette it was used with will most likely have sprockets that skip with a new chain. Campy recommends a length check between the rollers, that is mostly roller wear and only a small amount of elongation. Both should be measured separately, if you really want to know what part of the chain in the most worn.
#13
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The smartest thing to do is alternate the use of several chains, so the sprockets don't wear-in to match small rollers or an elongated chain.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 02-25-20 at 07:44 PM.
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ABsolutely wrong. That's why I deliberately used a Campy chain for 6000 miles - to test Jobst Brandt's contention that only elongation would cause sprocket damage. My chain had no more than .25% elongation, but two of the most-used sprockets skipped with a new chain. Campy rollers don't wear faster than others. Their inner plates and pins wear far less than any other brand. I used a cheap kimc 11.93 chain for only 1000 miles and had .25% elongation.
The smartest thing to do is alternate the use of several chains, so the sprockets don't wear-in to match small rollers or an elongated chain.
The smartest thing to do is alternate the use of several chains, so the sprockets don't wear-in to match small rollers or an elongated chain.
It is fairly straightforward to me. The chain wears before the cogs, The pitch of the cog teeth and the elongated chain don't match so there is friction and the cog teeth will wear to match the pitch of the chain. This happens where the chain is under tension - as it goes onto the sprocket and as it comes off.
Last edited by GeneO; 02-25-20 at 08:07 PM.
#15
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I, too, refused to buy a chain checker that didn’t account for roller wear/size. Too many stories of those things failing new chains. I bought a 6” ruler and 12” ruler instead.
Without taking the chain off, I had great difficulty using the 12” ruler. I assume you’re supposed to measure the chain under tension, so I tried to measure the upper drive portion of the chain. I couldn’t really fit the 12” ruler in there. So I tried the 6”. If my math isn’t wrong, 0.5% of 6” is 0.03 inches. 1/4 of 1/8”. How am I supposed to eyeball that? And how do I know I haven’t just positioned my ruler wrong? Heck, even with the chain off, 1/16” seems mighty hard to eyeball. Maybe I’m not doing it right. And if I’m being honest, I’ve compared rulers before and definitely seen ones that were off by that amount across 12”.
Anyway, I bought the CC4. Glad a skeptic like me is having a good experience. I’ve yet to use it
Without taking the chain off, I had great difficulty using the 12” ruler. I assume you’re supposed to measure the chain under tension, so I tried to measure the upper drive portion of the chain. I couldn’t really fit the 12” ruler in there. So I tried the 6”. If my math isn’t wrong, 0.5% of 6” is 0.03 inches. 1/4 of 1/8”. How am I supposed to eyeball that? And how do I know I haven’t just positioned my ruler wrong? Heck, even with the chain off, 1/16” seems mighty hard to eyeball. Maybe I’m not doing it right. And if I’m being honest, I’ve compared rulers before and definitely seen ones that were off by that amount across 12”.
Anyway, I bought the CC4. Glad a skeptic like me is having a good experience. I’ve yet to use it
Yeah, I also questioned the ruler accuracy. but new chains were exactly 12" with my ruler when stretched.
And yes, it is really hard to read and keep the ruler at the same part of the pin on both sides while stretching the chain.
You can tension with the crank when the rear wheel is on the ground.
#17
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Good I kept that chain I replaced. Maybe it is still good. But the new chain shifts better......
#18
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I have had the Rohloff checker for over 20 years. I found out that a ruler was a better tool for the purpose because I had been discarding chains with plenty of life in them. I have the Pedros now and it is reliable. Looks like Parks plagiarizer it. https://pedros.com/products/tools/ca...ecker-plus-ii/
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I have had the Rohloff checker for over 20 years. I found out that a ruler was a better tool for the purpose because I had been discarding chains with plenty of life in them. I have the Pedros now and it is reliable. Looks like Parks plagiarizer it. https://pedros.com/products/tools/ca...ecker-plus-ii/
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I always was a "metal ruler" guy to check chain wear because most traditional chain-checkers don't account for roller wear.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
I bought the Shimano tool years before the Pedro's tool was released.
I got it on sale, but it still cost way more than it should have.
#21
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To make an accurate length measurement with a ruler, use a precision 12 inch machinist's rule. Place one end on the edge of a pin. When new, the pin at the other end will be completely covered by the ruler. When that pin is half exposed, you have slightly more than 0.5% elongation. Check the chain when it's off the bike for cleaning, laid out on a table top and stretched snugly. If you never take the chain off for cleaning, don't expect the best chain life. Also don't use this method with a Campy chain. You'll ever get it to show 0.5%.
#22
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To make an accurate length measurement with a ruler, use a precision 12 inch machinist's rule. Place one end on the edge of a pin. When new, the pin at the other end will be completely covered by the ruler. When that pin is half exposed, you have slightly more than 0.5% elongation. Check the chain when it's off the bike for cleaning, laid out on a table top and stretched snugly. If you never take the chain off for cleaning, don't expect the best chain life. Also don't use this method with a Campy chain. You'll ever get it to show 0.5%.
DaveSSS I do have one question though, why is it preferable to take the chain off the bike to measure vs. measuring on the bike with the derailleur applying tension?
Concur with your comment about "if you never take the chain off for cleaning...not to expect the best chain life".
#23
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I would measure the chain off the bike, just because you can lay a ruler on the chain much more easily, without having to hold it in place.
Since I mainly use Campy chains, the ruler is worthless, so I either use calipers as suggested by Campy, or a plug gage that I made from a 6mm hex wrench to drop between the rollers. The Campy method figures out to .75% elongation, but the vast majority of what you're measuring is roller wear and it's mostly wear on the holes in the rollers, not the OD of the rollers.
By alternating the use of several chains, the wear measurement is far less critical, since you'll never get new-chain skip, Each chain can be used longer, but too much longer might shorten the life of chain rings. I'd still expect the chain rings to last the life of two cassettes.
Since I mainly use Campy chains, the ruler is worthless, so I either use calipers as suggested by Campy, or a plug gage that I made from a 6mm hex wrench to drop between the rollers. The Campy method figures out to .75% elongation, but the vast majority of what you're measuring is roller wear and it's mostly wear on the holes in the rollers, not the OD of the rollers.
By alternating the use of several chains, the wear measurement is far less critical, since you'll never get new-chain skip, Each chain can be used longer, but too much longer might shorten the life of chain rings. I'd still expect the chain rings to last the life of two cassettes.
#24
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I always was a "metal ruler" guy to check chain wear because most traditional chain-checkers don't account for roller wear.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
Besides Shimano and Pedro's now Park also has a proper chain checker. it always seemed hard to measure with the ruler exactly in a dark garage etc. Maybe a ruler in theory is more accurate, but it is quite hard to hold it to the same part of the pin at each end.
I finally broke down and bought this chain checker and I'm glad I did. it works really well and quickly.
#25
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I like this guys approach to demonstrate effects of roller vs. elongation wear. That must have been some worn chain. LOL.
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3370/ro...th-chainrings/
But yeah, I get it. Roller wear could effectively reduce the pitch of the chain as it disengages, but I am not sure whether this actually is what happens,.I think the forces on neighboring rollers as the come off the chain are in the same direction, so roller wear doesn't come into play.
EDITED to clarify.
https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3370/ro...th-chainrings/
But yeah, I get it. Roller wear could effectively reduce the pitch of the chain as it disengages, but I am not sure whether this actually is what happens,.I think the forces on neighboring rollers as the come off the chain are in the same direction, so roller wear doesn't come into play.
EDITED to clarify.
Last edited by GeneO; 02-26-20 at 02:50 PM.