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Posting some info from another member re Coronovirus

Old 03-22-20, 08:54 PM
  #151  
skookum
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Yes most masks are actually produced in or around Wuhan, in a nice touch of irony.

B the Chinese are not Hoarding them. The Chinese, who were smart enough to produce something which might actually have some value, are choosing not to sell their own possessions to other people who spent their money on toys and games and are now screaming for help.

We all have the latest iPhone or Android phone ... and are all at risk for dying of the CCP Virus. We cannot blame anyone else but the CCP .... not the Chinese companies which make masks for their own people.

American companies could have made masks. Americans could have bought Chinese masks for a normal price at any time before the virus broke out.

The Chinese people would e Stupid and Insane to sell all their masks now,. the are Ground Zero and fighting the same disease we are. And they need those masks every bit as much as we do. Why should they sell us Their masks and die, so we can live?

I like how America is all independent and self-reliant----until we find out that really we are all childish and self-indulgent, and then we start blaming everyone else for our bad choices.
A lot of the masks that were in North America and Europe ended up going back to China as the parallel traders bought them up and shipped them there. You can't blame the Chinese or the traders, there was a desperate need for them there.
Masks are not a really high tech item and a number of manufacturers are starting to produce them to fill the demand. Within the next few weeks you will see the availability of masks in North America start to increase.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...urgical-masks/
https://kuow.org/stories/mukilteo-fu...ocal-hospitals
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus...-shortage.html
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Old 03-23-20, 01:31 AM
  #152  
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I got nothing more to add here.




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Old 03-23-20, 03:10 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Which government are you referring to when you ask if the extreme response will work?
Mostly here in North America/Canada and some of Europe….Some experts at WHO are starting to say that complete lockdowns aren't sustainable long term and not enough to halt the spread of viruses and that governments need to implement other measures...Countries such as South Korea managed to control the virus without implementing extreme lockdowns.
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Old 03-23-20, 05:10 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Mostly here in North America/Canada and some of Europe….Some experts at WHO are starting to say that complete lockdowns aren't sustainable long term and not enough to halt the spread of viruses and that governments need to implement other measures...Countries such as South Korea managed to control the virus without implementing extreme lockdowns.
S Korea did that by successfully CONTAINING it. Once that horse leaves the barn, it’s gone.

In the US, that horse left the barn and burned it down on its way out about 35,000 cases ago. The reasons will re-hashed for years to come (e.g., scarcity of tests, a disorganized bureaucracy, and a leader preaching denial). But whatever the reason, it is too late for that.

Heck, to this day, NY (where I live) is the only state that has reached S Korea’s per capita testing capacity (and it is not clear if we can maintain that capacity) but we are WAY past containment. At this point pretty much everyone in the state is a potential carrier, so even if you just want to quarantine potential cases, that is pretty much everybody.

Could/should western governments have done better? Absolutely. I won’t speak for other governments but the US Federal government botched this badly. NY had to solve the testing problem on its own, and all the Feds did was make it harder to do so.

You can wish we did what S Korea did all you want, but the fact is we (meaning most Western countries, and I assume others as well) did not, and it is now too late. It is a harsh reality but at this point mitigation through steep reduction in personal interaction is the only means we have. That is simply the reality we live in, like it or not.

And don’t think that you understand how bad the economic implications are better than the governments doing it. They absolutely know, which is why so many of them dragged their feet so long before doing it.

Also, nobody ever thought shutdown alone would STOP it once it jumped containment. But evidence from Italy does appear to indicate that it slows it relative to not shutting down.

Last edited by Kapusta; 03-23-20 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 03-23-20, 07:09 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Mostly here in North America/Canada and some of Europe….Some experts at WHO are starting to say that complete lockdowns aren't sustainable long term and not enough to halt the spread of viruses and that governments need to implement other measures...Countries such as South Korea managed to control the virus without implementing extreme lockdowns.
Time to address a major flaw in your thinking. What you describe are governments and not a single government. Its plural.
And with that comes many different approaches.

You claim an extreme approach has been taken, but it certain hasn't taken place in the US. People are moving about and bumping into one another at grocery stores still.
Sure there are some shelter in place orders, but the lists of eclxceptions in those instances are quite long and people are moving about for work, recreation, and supplies still.
In Europs, there are some countries with extreme measures(Italy for example) and others with relaxed measures(England for example).


You are generalizing way too much because you are combining multiple approaches and ignoring others.

The US now has the 3rd most cases, I just saw a headline.
did you read the 30minute article I linked earlier in this thread? If those projections are accurate, ir even half accurate(since projection models are continually changing), this is devastating and it is because not enough is being done.
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Old 03-23-20, 11:50 AM
  #156  
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Frankly, I think his first paragraph is NONSENSE! This virus is spreading very easily, and it is NOT just people coughing directly in your face, or anything so dramatic as that.

If you look at what is going on in Asia, in many areas it is prohibited to be in public without a mask. The contagions are coming out of peoples noses and mouths, and they must be contained RIGHT THERE.

If not, the virus get on other surfaces, and OBVIOUSLY are drifting around in the air.
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Old 03-23-20, 02:57 PM
  #157  
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Thank you lawyers of the United States of Americant.
Article written nearly 14 years ago.

https://www.ehstoday.com/emergency-m...rtage-of-masks
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Old 03-23-20, 03:38 PM
  #158  
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We place a substantial premium on individual liberty over the general welfare in the West, especially and specifically in the United States. It is no real wonder that we failed to act as a collective in the face of an obvious danger. And as usual the most vulnerable among us, economically and medically, stand to bear by far the greatest weight of the burden. Months ahead of now the most privileged among us will be scratching our heads asking what all the fuss was about. Meanwhile the working poor, the elderly, the sick, and the homeless will be picking up the pieces.
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Old 03-23-20, 08:11 PM
  #159  
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Yeah .... Americans seem to have forgotten that the only reason we can enjoy such broad personal liberty is because our forefathers pulled together and sacrificed, time and again.

Now it is our turn, and people are whining because they cannot watch sports on TV.

Hey, folks ... "Patriotism" right now means staying home and watching Netflix. I know it isn't as exciting as dying in a war, but let's give it a shot, eh?
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Old 03-23-20, 08:17 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
This was emailed to me from another member who asked me to post it for them.An update from Dr. Otto Yang, Infectious Disease Doctor at UCLA:
{snipped}
Thanks for posting the update from Dr. Otto Yang.
Could I offer some constructive criticism and ask if you can separate paragraphs out more, to make them easier to read? Thanks.

There's a BBC news video article from a doctor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhAy...ature=youtu.be
One of the things the doctor mentions is face masks and how they're really only of use for someone already infected with Covid-19, to prevent passing it on to others.

I googled surgical (cloth) masks: They were designed over a hundred years ago for use by surgeons in operating theatres to stop their own saliva, mucus, etc., infecting the patients they were operating on. They were never designed to prevent wearers contracting an airborne infection.
From the WHO video I saw a few days ago, they said the same thing: If you have Covid-19, wearing one will reduce the chance of you infecting someone else.

It seems the main chance of infection is by physically touching something with the virus on it. Hence the information about washing your hands regularly with alcohol or soap and water, making sure you clean your fingers, including between your fingers and not just the palms of your hands.
Wearing disposable plastic gloves seems to me a good idea.

I live in Thailand and a lot of people are wearing face masks. I put a face mask on for the first time in my life - purely to avoid Thais pointing out me as a foreigner for not wearing one, and for no other reason.
I also read an article in the UK press about face masks and why they're so popular in Asia:
<quote>
According to behavioural psychologist Jo Hemmings, “herd mentality, and a mixture of fear and greed. When we see others do it, we feel we might be missing out if we don’t copy them. It is a way of taking some control in a situation we have little control over. Interestingly though, in spite of the panic buying of masks, you still see very few people actually wearing them out and about. At the moment they seem to be an insurance policy -people just feel safer just owning them.”

Medical Anthropologist Florence Walker suggests that many of us simply don’t believe the authorities who tell us masks are useless. “Hand-washing doesn’t have the same ‘magical’ talisman property that a face mask has,” she says. “In some ways it’s difficult to comprehend how masks couldn’t work.”

As to whether we’ll all be wearing them in the West at some point? “No. Not overnight, at least,” she says. “Face mask wearing has been a staple public health measure in Asia since the 1910 flu outbreak. It’s ingrained into their cultural psyche in a way it isn’t here.”
<end quote>
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Old 03-23-20, 08:18 PM
  #161  
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I'm not up for endless tv watching, but I will take the "find the top of my workbench" challenge posted in another place here. And in the spare moments I will finish my taxes! Smiles, MH
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Old 03-23-20, 09:38 PM
  #162  
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You all talking of other countries customary wearing mask. Lol

In the US, we don't have any, but the only ones who do are gang thugs flash mob smashing store fronts in Berekely and Chicago.
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Old 03-23-20, 10:04 PM
  #163  
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The Forgotten Flu Season

" At least 14,000 people have died and 250,000 have already been hospitalized during the 2019-2020 flu season, according to estimates from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. More than 26 million Americans have fallen ill with flu-like symptoms. "

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...be-at-its-peak

Poor ol' Flu. It just doesn't seem to be getting any media coverage.
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Old 03-23-20, 10:20 PM
  #164  
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Crank_addict,
I have a couple of bandana's that I intend to wear. At first I thought it might be good as a tool to fool the lone ranger, but now more of a preventive tool for my breathing apparatus. I haven't been a member of the family for forty years and I am currently mob free. Smiles, MH
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Old 03-23-20, 11:54 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Mostly here in North America/Canada and some of Europe….Some experts at WHO are starting to say that complete lockdowns aren't sustainable long term and not enough to halt the spread of viruses and that governments need to implement other measures.
They are right. With all that they are doing, the virus is still spreading. In the process they are going to destroy a lot of people and businesses financially.
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Old 03-24-20, 07:06 AM
  #166  
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Maybe the virus is still spreading because a lot of people are still resisting the published guidelines and acting however they want? And since the virus has a 5-14-day incubation period, and since most areas are catching on many weeks too late that this is serious, it is taking a long time for containment/mitigation to have any effect?

South Korea went into immediate containment when it found out about the virus on Jan. 20. it has very few cases, comparatively.

The U.S. Still isn't really taking the virus seriously, and people are Still refusing to stay away from each other and take simple precautions, two months later ... any wonder why the containment measures aren't working?

Yes, our economy is going to be hit hard .... but if we don't smarten up it will be hit a lot harder .... and we will lose millions of Americans also.
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Old 03-24-20, 07:25 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by crank_addict View Post
Thank you lawyers of the United States of Americant.
Article written nearly 14 years ago.

https://www.ehstoday.com/emergency-m...rtage-of-masks

Really well beside the point--https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2749214
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Old 03-24-20, 07:32 AM
  #168  
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UK health professionals .... the people who ar seeing their colleagues die trying to help the infected---are calling this "the greatest health care crisis of our lifetime." Their advice? Simply, "Stay at home."

No BS, no whining ... stay home and live, or go out and kill.

Take just two minutes and watch this---PLEASE---if you are in any way unclear on how to cope with the virus.
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Old 03-24-20, 09:21 AM
  #169  
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If you're curious why commie China is fortifieng its borders and its people continue to wear mask. Maybe they're not sharing something and only western society scientist are beginning to learn.

Soon as the World makes a health recovery and becomes complacent, the experts say a 2nd part may be hiding in Covid19. Unbeknownst carriers everywhere. That could rear up in late Summer or Autumn. The most fearful and if so, everyone will have at least know of someone having the virus.
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Old 03-24-20, 09:34 AM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by alo View Post
They are right. With all that they are doing, the virus is still spreading.
Sort of true, but misses the point.

First “all they are doing” is not much. In the western world, only Italy has actually done much lockdown for more than a week so far. Heck, most of the US is still not on lockdown. It will take several weeks for the effects of a strict lockdown have an effect.

But where lockdowns have done in earnest for a while, it seems to be working. The western country that has been doing the lockdown the longest (Italy) IS seeing it have an effect in slowing the spread. The exponential factor of growth has been reduced over the past two weeks, and we may now be seeing the actual linear growth slowing.

Last edited by Kapusta; 03-24-20 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-24-20, 10:26 AM
  #171  
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If we lived in a nation of smarter people .... we would be like South Korea, with basically everything under control and everything getting better.

Taiwan also did an excellent job, with almost no cases .... because they cut off travel from mainland China immediately, and took strong precautions.

They are having a few cases now, because so many overseas college students have returned home. But they are still really low on number of infections, and are testing everyone to keep the spread minimal.

Just about everyone there wears masks if they go outside, just in case. And they are producing masks on government order, sort of like the U.S. could be.

We are still getting together in crowds to show we can.

Oh, and tests cost $3500 and most people are expected to need a re-test .... but don't worry, chances are you couldn't get a test even if you had $7K to blow because we still haven;'t started making them in sufficient quantities.

By the time we have enough tests, we won't need them because everyone will be infected.

Last edited by Maelochs; 03-24-20 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 03-24-20, 08:05 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by JackieYan View Post
I live in Thailand and a lot of people are wearing face masks. I put a face mask on for the first time in my life - purely to avoid Thais pointing out me as a foreigner for not wearing one, and for no other reason.
This.

In China they love to throw stones at outsiders, even if its just the person next door.

I'm getting used to it, I can't imagine what its like in hot weather, I predict that most folks won't "go along to get along" much longer.

I'll know its safe when these three conditions are met.

1. North Korea and Russian re-open their borders
2. Elementary and middle-schools reopen
3. The CCP’s annual political meetings resume.

If any of the above are missing, the pandemic isn't over.


Last edited by SHBR; 03-24-20 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 03-24-20, 08:21 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
If we lived in a nation of smarter people .... we would be like South Korea, with basically everything under control and everything getting better.


Taiwan also did an excellent job, with almost no cases .... because they cut off travel from mainland China immediately, and took strong precautions.


They are having a few cases now, because so many overseas college students have returned home. But they are still really low on number of infections, and are testing everyone to keep the spread minimal.


Just about everyone there wears masks if they go outside, just in case. And they are producing masks on government order, sort of like the U.S. could be.


We are still getting together in crowds to show we can.


Oh, and tests cost $3500 and most people are expected to need a re-test .... but don't worry, chances are you couldn't get a test even if you had $7K to blow because we still haven;'t started making them in sufficient quantities.


By the time we have enough tests, we won't need them because everyone will be infected.

Taiwan and Korea tested lots of people and made sure that they stayed quarantined, using mobile phone data (among other things) to track them. It worked very well, but I don't know if you could implement that in North America.Also both of those countries are small and self contained compared to the US, so easier to isolate the country and keep track of people. Still it was worth trying, but nobody made any effort at it in America.


Masks, well it is a confused story. People often wear masks when outside in Taiwan ,even before this crisis, and there are always lots available. Unfortunately most mask production from the US moved to China, and guess what, the Chinese want to keep their masks now. Apparently mask production has been ramped up and hope fully medical people will have access to them, but I can't see there being enough for the general public. The general story is masks are not protective, but it seems that is not quite the whole story and masks could be useful for the average person.


Tests don't cost $3000, people are not charged for them , but the lack of tests is a huge disaster in the US, caused by bureaucratic ineptitude at the CDC and the FDA and a glaring lack of political leadership. Testing has been opened up now and a bunch of places are doing them, still not enough but it should get better. I saw today where somebody has started an at home test where you collect your own swab and mail it in. It will cost $135, I think. If I can find the link I will post it.


In general I agree with your sentiment. A whole lot of time was wasted, and there are approaches that work. At least try them.

https://reason.com/2020/03/23/fda-sh...id-19-testing/

Last edited by skookum; 03-24-20 at 08:38 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 03-24-20, 08:33 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Taiwan and Korea tested lots of people and made sure that they stayed quarantined, using mobile phone data (among other things) to track them. It worked very well, but I don't know if you could implement that in North America.Also both of those countries are small and self contained compared to the US, so easier to isolate the country and keep track of people. Still it was worth trying, but nobody made any effort at it in America.


Masks, well it is a confused story. People often wear masks when outside in Taiwan ,even before this crisis, and there are always lots available. Unfortunately most mask production from the US moved to China, and guess what, the Chinese want to keep their masks now. Apparently mask production has been ramped up and hope fully medical people will have access to them, but I can't see there being enough for the general public. The general story is masks are not protective, but it seems that is not quite the whole story and masks could be useful for the average person.


Tests don't cost $3000, people are not charged for them , but the lack of tests is a huge disaster in the US, caused by bureaucratic ineptitude at the CDC and the FDA and a glaring lack of political leadership. Testing has been opened up now and a bunch of places are doing them, still not enough but it should get better. I saw today where somebody has started an at home test where you collect your own swab and mail it in. It will cost $120, I think. If I can find the link I will post it.

In general I agree with your sentiment. A whole lot of time was wasted, and there are approaches that work. At least try them.


Another question is how do you protect people who do not want the protection?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eople-20s.html
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Old 03-24-20, 08:38 PM
  #175  
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It would appear that the US has been deliberately sabotaged, the worst part is, the CCP wants to take over.

Orange man is replaceable, the dear leader isn't.




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