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Tubeless touring?

Old 12-20-17, 08:50 AM
  #76  
Sullalto
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I feel like nothing being tubeless compatible and not working tubeless is expected behavior and not surprising.

Originally Posted by msbiker View Post
The best bet is, of course, to use tubeless ready tires on a tubeless ready rim.
Yes, I suspect so.
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Old 12-20-17, 09:39 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
The ghetto setup also fits in well with my tightwad nature.
I'd be very nervous with this setup especially in the front. If it fails, the results could be catastrophic which would be serious false economy. There is no way to know that it won't fail this way.

None of the components were designed with this in mind and the manufacturers would, I'm sure, emphatically warn you not to do this.

J.
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Old 12-20-17, 09:59 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by linus View Post
If it holds air, you'll be fine for normal riding. My only concern with it will be if decide to you go down a hill and hit a pot hole or something... Take it easy and you'll be fine I think. You just want to try out TL setup anyway so if you like how they feel, try both TL rims and tires.
Well it was still up this morning.
Earlier this evening I went for a spin of around 10km.
So far so good.
I won't be looking to get any air with this setup.
My riding style is fairly staid and sedate.
If its still up tomorrow morning then I'll likely do the rear wheel as well.
This year there has been an abundance of thorns locally where I am so I've found myself disinclined to ride and want to remedy that.
I hope the Stans will mitigate the punctures enough to get me back in the saddle and riding again.
I'll try to take your advice on taking it easy and avoiding big hits.
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Old 12-20-17, 10:08 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
I'd be very nervous with this setup especially in the front. If it fails, the results could be catastrophic which would be serious false economy. There is no way to know that it won't fail this way.

None of the components were designed with this in mind and the manufacturers would, I'm sure, emphatically warn you not to do this.

J.
Thanks for your concern.
Its a stop gap measure and I'll revisit a purchase decision of proper tubeless rims/tires next winter if the setup lasts that long.
For the tour I'm speculating about, I'll take a couple of tubes with me in case of a major failure, and will ride accordingly.
I'll be towing a trailer with around 20 litres of water so won't be going very fast, assuming the BB7's keep working
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Old 12-20-17, 10:11 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Yes but there is another aspect to the choice. Some of us enjoy the journey more on tires with the nice road feel that supple sidewalls give; a feeling that is enhanced by running tubeless. This can be true whatever the speed we ride.

For me, running a heavy and stiff tire with thornproof tubes would suck a good deal of the joy out of the ride and that would be true whether I was riding 20 miles per day or 100 miles per day.

Also, in addition to enjoying the supple ride feel, riding faster can enhance the journey. Riding faster isn't necessarily about getting to the destination in a hurry. It can also be about the joy of riding faster.
True indeed
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Old 03-29-20, 12:19 AM
  #81  
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I was looking for new tires recently & was surprised to see some nice touring tires available in tubeless-ready. The bike already has tubeless-ready rims so I'm thinking why not try the Schwalbe G-One Speed tire with tubeless. Actually I've never had a flat with Schwalbe tires incl light Supremes but tubeless could be nice insurance against a flat at an inconvenient time. The sealant & valves are not that expensive. I'm not good at patching tubes anyway so it's possible tubeless could be cheaper in the long run.

Riders who use a heavier tire to avoid flats can save a lot of rotating weight by switching to a lighter tubeless tire. Schwalbe says tubeless is the future, & they don't seem like the types to make idle inflated claims (pun intended).
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Old 03-29-20, 08:34 AM
  #82  
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Let us know how it goes. Here I just don't have the need, and patching is so easy and permanent that this is not an issue, so don't really understand you finding it problematic.
be aware that keeping on top of sealant drying up over time, if bike not used for a while.
also the required sudden fast high pressure to seat a tire.
This is another reason for me to not be interested, for now, but will probably learn one day if a trip required it.

I've gone through the steps of learning disc brake stuff and lots of mistakes, so can learn this stuff too one day I guess.

as you say though, lighter and more flexible supple tires do become addictive.
re touring,I still think it is still specific to thorny areas.
May change my mind on this one day.
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Old 03-29-20, 08:57 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Let us know how it goes. Here I just don't have the need, and patching is so easy and permanent that this is not an issue, so don't really understand you finding it problematic.
be aware that keeping on top of sealant drying up over time, if bike not used for a while.
also the required sudden fast high pressure to seat a tire.
This is another reason for me to not be interested, for now, but will probably learn one day if a trip required it.

I've gone through the steps of learning disc brake stuff and lots of mistakes, so can learn this stuff too one day I guess.

as you say though, lighter and more flexible supple tires do become addictive.
re touring,I still think it is still specific to thorny areas.
May change my mind on this one day.
Iíve been riding tubeless for about 10 years now, starting with tubeless tubulars (Tufo etc..) and now for the last several years with tubeless clinchers.

What I have discovered is that there is no difference in flat performance between the tubulars and the tubeless clinchers. In both cases I get 1 flat in about 5000 or so miles compared to 10 or so in that same mileage. So I think that weíre going to find that tubeless is inherently more reliable than with a tube. I have to say, I really enjoy largely eliminating flats.

The advantage, at least for tubeless clinchers is that if you do get a flat, if you canít repair it on the spot and on the rim with one of the pluggers, then worst case, you remove the valve from the rim and install a tube.

That then gives all the traditional contingencies such as patching the tube should it fail again or a tire boot for a slashed tire etc...

So based on that, I can find no reason to not switch to tubeless at least for the touring I do. In point of fact, going tubeless probably gives your more contingency/backup that going with a straight tubed setup would. And you also get all the riding benefits of lower rolling weight, better and more supple ride.
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Old 03-30-20, 04:45 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
Well it was still up this morning.
Earlier this evening I went for a spin of around 10km.
So far so good.
I won't be looking to get any air with this setup.
My riding style is fairly staid and sedate.
If its still up tomorrow morning then I'll likely do the rear wheel as well.
This year there has been an abundance of thorns locally where I am so I've found myself disinclined to ride and want to remedy that.
I hope the Stans will mitigate the punctures enough to get me back in the saddle and riding again.
I'll try to take your advice on taking it easy and avoiding big hits.
Many Km's later and a couple of tire replacements, I'm still riding my Velocity Dyad Ghetto tubeless setup and see no need as yet to update to tubeless rims/specific tires here in 2020
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Old 03-30-20, 07:03 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
Many Km's later and a couple of tire replacements, I'm still riding my Velocity Dyad Ghetto tubeless setup and see no need as yet to update to tubeless rims/specific tires here in 2020
I usually hate to see zombie threads come back, but thanks for checking back in. I sometimes hate to read what I said years ago, but in this case I'd probably say exactly the same thing today.

I found myself annoyed again reading comments about how the only benefit was puncture resistance when it might not even be the biggest benefit in my mind. Puncture resistance is awesome, but so is the supple ride. I am still loving the tubeless on my mountain bike with the lack of flats and awesome ride, but have not yet toured on tubeless. I'd definitely consider tubeless if building up a new set of wheels for touring. I'd consider ghetto tubeless, but doubt the wisdom of it for the skinny tires I have been UL touring on. I sometimes think of going to wider tires and trying it, but I am riding a road bike with narrow rims and doubt the setup for ghetto tubeless.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:15 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
Iíve been riding tubeless for about 10 years now, starting with tubeless tubulars (Tufo etc..) and now for the last several years with tubeless clinchers.

What I have discovered is that there is no difference in flat performance between the tubulars and the tubeless clinchers. In both cases I get 1 flat in about 5000 or so miles compared to 10 or so in that same mileage. So I think that weíre going to find that tubeless is inherently more reliable than with a tube. I have to say, I really enjoy largely eliminating flats.

The advantage, at least for tubeless clinchers is that if you do get a flat, if you canít repair it on the spot and on the rim with one of the pluggers, then worst case, you remove the valve from the rim and install a tube.

That then gives all the traditional contingencies such as patching the tube should it fail again or a tire boot for a slashed tire etc...

So based on that, I can find no reason to not switch to tubeless at least for the touring I do. In point of fact, going tubeless probably gives your more contingency/backup that going with a straight tubed setup would. And you also get all the riding benefits of lower rolling weight, better and more supple ride.
good sales job, and I do value people's experience with any new thing. I'm sure I will try it sometime.
re flats, in my riding reality, I get maybe one flat per year, some years no flats. Ride an average of 5000kms per year. Rode all winter this year and touch wood no flats running lowish pressures on old school mtb tires, cheapo clunkers.

From a devils advocate angle, nice feeling tires like the supreme , tubed, have been great for nearly 0 flats during three long heavily loaded tours, same tires, so to me if there aren't thorn issues, this combo works, rides nicely, is robust enough to handle a fair amount of road debris in 7 countries and rough roads galore, so I have less incentive to change knowing I can ride through Latin American countries or a gravelly road in Canada and be okay, touch wood touch wood!

but again, hearing all the clearly positive aspects from many people like you is encouraging, just as it was for me about disc brakes from folks off doing far off tours with them with success.

oh I'd be a bit concerned about below freezing 0c temps and sealant. Would have to learn about that too.
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Old 03-30-20, 08:31 AM
  #87  
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Tubeless on the ECR and so far loving it. If you go tubeless, check out the Stan's DART for repair. Great for large punctures and slices.
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Old 03-30-20, 10:05 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
good sales job, and I do value people's experience with any new thing. I'm sure I will try it sometime.
re flats, in my riding reality, I get maybe one flat per year, some years no flats. Ride an average of 5000kms per year. Rode all winter this year and touch wood no flats running lowish pressures on old school mtb tires, cheapo clunkers.

From a devils advocate angle, nice feeling tires like the supreme , tubed, have been great for nearly 0 flats during three long heavily loaded tours, same tires, so to me if there aren't thorn issues, this combo works, rides nicely, is robust enough to handle a fair amount of road debris in 7 countries and rough roads galore, so I have less incentive to change knowing I can ride through Latin American countries or a gravelly road in Canada and be okay, touch wood touch wood!

but again, hearing all the clearly positive aspects from many people like you is encouraging, just as it was for me about disc brakes from folks off doing far off tours with them with success.

oh I'd be a bit concerned about below freezing 0c temps and sealant. Would have to learn about that too.
I do agree that where you ride and the kinds of road hazards and debris you encounter is part of it and thatís probably most of the variance in ride reports on a given tire.

A couple of comments:

1. I did ride this Schwalbe G-1 Speeds set up tubeless in a 30mm tire down the rock garden that is the Rallervegen in Norway. I really should have been on a bigger tire or an MTB. Both my wife and I had it set up this way neither had a flat. I consider that an over stress situation for that tire but it was just fine.

2. Orange Seal makes a sealant that goes down to cold temperatures. I ride during the winter here in Minnesota on my fat bike and itís been fine. I will usually ride, depending on snow conditions, down as low as -5F/-21C. Many ride much colder than that even. So I donít have any concerns about sealant.

As always, if I did get a flat that the sealant or my Dynaplug plugger couldnít repair, there is always the option of throwing in a tube which is about as difficult as it would be on a tubed set up. So thereís a lot of upside and very little downside. Main downside is wheel cost if youíre not tubeless ready and investing the time to give it a try.
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Old 03-30-20, 12:36 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
I do agree that where you ride and the kinds of road hazards and debris you encounter is part of it and thatís probably most of the variance in ride reports on a given tire.

A couple of comments:

1. I did ride this Schwalbe G-1 Speeds set up tubeless in a 30mm tire down the rock garden that is the Rallervegen in Norway. I really should have been on a bigger tire or an MTB. Both my wife and I had it set up this way neither had a flat. I consider that an over stress situation for that tire but it was just fine.

2. Orange Seal makes a sealant that goes down to cold temperatures. I ride during the winter here in Minnesota on my fat bike and itís been fine. I will usually ride, depending on snow conditions, down as low as -5F/-21C. Many ride much colder than that even. So I donít have any concerns about sealant.

As always, if I did get a flat that the sealant or my Dynaplug plugger couldnít repair, there is always the option of throwing in a tube which is about as difficult as it would be on a tubed set up. So thereís a lot of upside and very little downside. Main downside is wheel cost if youíre not tubeless ready and investing the time to give it a try.
interesting points. Neat to see that sealant can work in cold, I kinda figured it must, knowing that most likely some winter riders use it. This is all new to me, so didnt know that.

re tires, because when I tour I nearly always have a fair amount of weight on bike, so 30, 40 or more lbs at times, I will still always go with a reasonably tough tire. The Supremes were really really impressive, especially given my Mexico and Central America trips, where although I was always careful watching for debris, I did ride through a crapload of glass and rough roads.

again, thanks for the insights and your experience. always interesting to read.
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Old 03-30-20, 06:55 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
Let us know how it goes. Here I just don't have the need, and patching is so easy and permanent that this is not an issue, so don't really understand you finding it problematic.
be aware that keeping on top of sealant drying up over time, if bike not used for a while.
also the required sudden fast high pressure to seat a tire.
This is another reason for me to not be interested, for now, but will probably learn one day if a trip required it.

I've gone through the steps of learning disc brake stuff and lots of mistakes, so can learn this stuff too one day I guess.

as you say though, lighter and more flexible supple tires do become addictive.
re touring,I still think it is still specific to thorny areas.
May change my mind on this one day.
I wouldn't switch out a good pair of tubed tires just to get tubeless flat resistance but I want to get new (slimmer lighter) tires anyway. I haven't had a flat in 3 years but maybe the next flat happens on tour when it's cold & dark & rainy & I'm behind schedule? Adding sealant can be done at home at one's leisure. The tubeless process seems pretty easy. Some folks say they've been able to mount tires with a regular floor pump, otherwise if I had to take the wheels to a local gas station that would be easy enough.

Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
1. I did ride this Schwalbe G-1 Speeds set up tubeless in a 30mm tire down the rock garden that is the Rallervegen in Norway. I really should have been on a bigger tire or an MTB. Both my wife and I had it set up this way neither had a flat. I consider that an over stress situation for that tire but it was just fine.
G-One BTW has nice choice of sizes & widths in the tubeless-easy option. Marathon Supreme tubeless-easy only in 622 diameter.
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Old 03-30-20, 09:27 PM
  #91  
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I've yet to see or experience any benefit to riding tubeless, if anything its been less enjoyable. Last year I only ran with tubes, air pressure around 40psi rear, 35 front (I'm a big guy) and enjoyed one flat all year that showed up after I got home, traction was never a concern and the bike never felt bouncy.
Since converting to tubeless I've had the tires run almost flat on 3 rides now from wedging into rocks and breaking the seal to minor punctures that just didn't seem to want to seal. I still end up running 40/35, tried lower and it just felt squirmy and not like anything I'd trust in a corner. The rims are stan's and the tires can't be mounted without an air compressor so not that great. Some of the squirm might be due to the softer sidewalls of the tubeless compatible tires but the tire and a tube are lighter then the tubeless variety of the same time so no weight savings if I spent the money to switch. I also don't like to carry any real tubes with me so getting that valve off would be a pain.
At the end of the day I'm using it but the first real flat that the sealant can't fill will mean a tube installed and the end of this seemingly pointless experiment.
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Old 03-31-20, 12:32 AM
  #92  
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For me tubeless touring is still a bit of a no go. I tried it last summer and while it did work to some extent, the Marathon Supreme rear tire I was using was wearing at a ridiculous rate. We were on the road for around two weeks and honestly I'm not sure the rear would have survived a whole month. I do have to say that the Supreme compound is grippy and fast, but it's not durable like the Marathon Plus line.

So it really boils down to the low selection of heavier duty tubeless tires. There is the Marathon Mondial but last I checked the tubeless models were only in 50mm widths which is too wide for my LHT. I guess the optimal tire would be a tubeless ready marathon mondial as it has good tread thickness, good offroad grip and the tubeless thing would more than make for the lack of the smart guard protection plus tires have. I suppose in tubeless it could be even lighter than normal as long as it still retains rigidity for heavier touring loads.
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Old 04-06-20, 05:29 AM
  #93  
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I've toured tubeless for a short time in Costa Rica on a mix or road and gravel(some of it quite big chunky gravel). I've commuted and done bike delivery tubeless for thousands of miles. This was all done on Stan's tubeless rims, Stan's sealant, Gorilla tape rim strips, valve stems cut out of old tubes, and regular tires. I was kind of surprised to find that I also didn't end up having to take my tires to somewhere with an air compressor. They seated with my regular bike floor pump. A couple fast strokes got them to puff out and push against the rim. After that I just pumped up the tires as usual and they slowly seated. It did take a good bit of pressure to get that final pop to full seating on the rim. And it was a bit of a loud pop, so I'd recommend not doing that indoors or using earplugs. I have to say my experience has been fantastic. I've only gotten one flat on my tubeless set-up. That was on a mountain biking trip where I was running too low of pressure and hammered too hard through a sharp volcanic rock garden. Snake bite. I threw in a tube and continued my trip(getting one more flat on the tubed tire before the end). Totally my fault for running low pressure and riding too aggressively on that terrain.

Other than that, I've completely worn out two pairs of new tires without ever getting a flat in thousands of miles. One set of MTB tires and a set of commuter tires. The one tire was practically a slick down the center before I changed it out, still no flats. I think I would have been getting flats if I had run a tubed tire to that level of thin tread. I'll Always carry a spare tube on tour, but I'll also always go tubeless from here on. And all of this is not even mentioning the superior ride quality.

I will say I don't understand the more modern road tubeless set-ups that have a thicker tubeless ready tire and don't use a good sealant. That just seems like the worst of everything. Heavy, thick tires, no good sealant to stop a puncture if you do get one, and high pressure required to seat the bead. What a disaster waiting to happen...
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Old 04-06-20, 08:29 AM
  #94  
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I have tubeless on my Jones Plus, it worked perfectly on the Divide, my buddy had 5 or 6 flats due to thorns in New Mexico. I had none. Three inch Bomboloni tires on Scraper rims, Stan's sealant.
Supposedly it works better with bigger lower pressure tires, I havent tried it on narrower rims.
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Old 04-06-20, 10:14 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
I have tubeless on my Jones Plus, it worked perfectly on the Divide, my buddy had 5 or 6 flats due to thorns in New Mexico. I had none. Three inch Bomboloni tires on Scraper rims, Stan's sealant.
Supposedly it works better with bigger lower pressure tires, I havent tried it on narrower rims.
curious about what pressures you ran on those 3 inchers?
your weight?
load weight?
I assume bike in the 30lb range, bit under?
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Old 04-06-20, 07:56 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
curious about what pressures you ran on those 3 inchers?
your weight?
load weight?
I assume bike in the 30lb range, bit under?
Sorry, I have no idea.

I pump it up a little harder when carrying a heavy load, but I don't know what the pressure was.
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Old 04-06-20, 08:01 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
Sorry, I have no idea.

I pump it up a little harder when carrying a heavy load, but I don't know what the pressure was.
no prob, I was just curious of how much difference it was compared to the riding I've done on 2 and 2.5 inch tires, and also wondering if you found 3in to be overkill on the divide ride if you did the whole thing.
A friend who did about half of the top half used 2.5 and found them to be a reasonable compromise.
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Old 04-06-20, 10:47 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
no prob, I was just curious of how much difference it was compared to the riding I've done on 2 and 2.5 inch tires, and also wondering if you found 3in to be overkill on the divide ride if you did the whole thing.
A friend who did about half of the top half used 2.5 and found them to be a reasonable compromise.
I did the most northerly 2/3 on 2.1 inch tires without any major problems, and the last 1/3 on 3 inch. The 3 inch was great on the very rough volcanic jeep tracks in new mexico and helpful in soft sand, but the really soft sand you would probably need 4 inch.. 2.5 would be a good compromise, but hey, go with the bike you got. I really think 2.0 is the minimum tire width, but people do it on less.
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Old 04-07-20, 05:35 AM
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djb
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thanks, always interesting to hear diff takes on it from those who have done it.
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Old 04-07-20, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
thanks, always interesting to hear diff takes on it from those who have done it.
Saw everything from a disc trucker with 45mm tires to 4 in. fatbikes. I think I could do it on my Atlantis if I put 26 in. wheels and 2.25 tires. Just might have to walk it more places.
I like the Jones but the upright position is bad in headwinds.

Its not really technical so a wide variety of bikes would suffice.
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