So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?
04-13-20, 02:20 PM
#76
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Speaking for the US here:
Too much of a tendency for cities to treat an MUP as an infinitely long no-rules park instead of a thoroughfare.
Around here MUPs are the gathering spot for dogs with 20' flexy leashes, off leash dogs, old people walking 5 wide, every parent's crotch fruit strung out everywhere on scooters and laying on the ground, joggers with headphones all over like a zig zap, and the wussy fake paceline cyclists treating it like the TdF.
The problem when it's "for everyone" is that nobody can seem to respect the rules that allow some semblance of order. When everyone is priority, nobody wins.
I'm more in favor of restricted use trails or trails that give priority to certain users.
Too much of a tendency for cities to treat an MUP as an infinitely long no-rules park instead of a thoroughfare.
Around here MUPs are the gathering spot for dogs with 20' flexy leashes, off leash dogs, old people walking 5 wide, every parent's crotch fruit strung out everywhere on scooters and laying on the ground, joggers with headphones all over like a zig zap, and the wussy fake paceline cyclists treating it like the TdF.
The problem when it's "for everyone" is that nobody can seem to respect the rules that allow some semblance of order. When everyone is priority, nobody wins.
I'm more in favor of restricted use trails or trails that give priority to certain users.
It seems tbat MUPs are rarely the problem.... It's the selfish, narcissistic, clueless humans that bollocks the experience....
I have few issues with MUPs in general. They are what they are, a collective resource. Mostly an open green space with regard to the ones I ride here, and I generally expect the unexpected. I have no expectation that they will be motor vehicle road organized
Dogs will bound, toddlers will wander, toddlers on bikes will veer etc, etc. I use them for lazy rides and short connectors.
When I want to get up and go I ride in the street. My biggest frustration is other cyclists that treat them as high speed training venues, particularly riding in pace lines, and god forbid they have to touch a brake lever.
Dogs will bound, toddlers will wander, toddlers on bikes will veer etc, etc. I use them for lazy rides and short connectors.
When I want to get up and go I ride in the street. My biggest frustration is other cyclists that treat them as high speed training venues, particularly riding in pace lines, and god forbid they have to touch a brake lever.
If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen people parking in the middle of the path to chatter with another cyclist/jogger/dog walker, etc., mess with their phones, tie their shoes or loiter for no apparent reason.
And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users ...
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing...Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind
And we've all seen wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users ...
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing...Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind
+1…Nicely said. ...My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road....
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
Originally Posted by genec
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
IMO the vast majority of pedestrians on a MUP / Bikepath are more likely motorists rather than cyclists, and do not share the opinion that they do not belong on the Path....
So I don’t expect pedestrians to show the same respect to cyclists, as we have to show toward cars i.e. “share the road.”
Especially since those users likely paid more [in aggregate] to construct the Path as their refuge from driving.So why should cyclists, likely the minority of users, take over these public spaces?
So I don’t expect pedestrians to show the same respect to cyclists, as we have to show toward cars i.e. “share the road.”
Especially since those users likely paid more [in aggregate] to construct the Path as their refuge from driving.So why should cyclists, likely the minority of users, take over these public spaces?
That says a lot.↓↓↓↓
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-14-20 at 11:41 AM. Reason: added quote by Digger Goreman
04-13-20, 03:29 PM
#77
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ɅɅɅɅ
So I have previously posted:
There was a time not all that long ago when there were no bike paths, bike lanes or dedicated "exercise paths". We have it good now, really good...
Yes, it's a hassle riding on multi-use paths but that is what they are. Everyone has to get along on the same path.,,,
.
Yes, it's a hassle riding on multi-use paths but that is what they are. Everyone has to get along on the same path.,,,
.Yeah we should be grateful for being 40+ years behind Europe in bike infrastructure in North America due to a guy who thought vehicular cycling was the way to go over separated cycling infrastructure
I posted earlier on this thread ”Getting somewhere” is the essence of a vehicle, be it pleasure, touring. utility, commuting etc (by bike) yet “vehicular cycling” on a road is derided in comparison to separated bike infrastructure.
I think of vehicular cycling in a technical sense as lane positioning on the road..."Take the Lane." :
Historically, back in the 19th century when cycling was a new, innovative mode of transportation, advocates like the League of American Wheelman were powerful enough to agitate for better roads, as Multi-Use Pathes, with the horses and pedestrians.
Then the automobile came along and new advocates could further agitate for even more and better roads, and cars became the predominant and overwhelmingly powerful users
I think of vehicular cycling in a technical sense as lane positioning on the road..."Take the Lane." :
Historically, back in the 19th century when cycling was a new, innovative mode of transportation, advocates like the League of American Wheelman were powerful enough to agitate for better roads, as Multi-Use Pathes, with the horses and pedestrians.
Then the automobile came along and new advocates could further agitate for even more and better roads, and cars became the predominant and overwhelmingly powerful users
“I don't think I like physically separated bike lanes.”
As a decades-long urban commuter and road cyclist, on a societal policy basis, I was impressed by this opinion by @B. Carfree
As a decades-long urban commuter and road cyclist, on a societal policy basis, I was impressed by this opinion by @B. Carfree
…Some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures).
Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bike lanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.
This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.
Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks.
Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bike lanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.
This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.
Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-13-20 at 03:41 PM.
04-13-20, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
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04-13-20, 06:56 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by genec
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
04-13-20, 07:22 PM
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Maybe the reason I am less frustrated by riding on a MUP is the fact I ride a trike, I am 81, and I am in no hurry. If I have to stop for someone with a dog on a leash, big deal. Being on a trike that just means I stop, stay clipped in, and when the path clears I simply start pedaling again with no clipping out and in. So big deal, I get home 23.587393 seconds later than I would have. 
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04-14-20, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
I find it quite interesting that so many "avowed cyclists" here fail to see the parallels between MUP users and roadway users, and fail to offer the same courtesy to MUP users in front of them that they expect from motorists overtaking those same cyclists on the roadways
Wow, I have been so poorly misquoted so many times it has lost all meaning.
My original point, that so many of you have missed, is that cyclists using the roadways expect motorists to see them, and treat them as "drivers of vehicles." Yet those same cyclists fail to see other users of MUPs and treat them as equals...
Bottom line, just because you go faster, doesn't make you king of the road/path. As always... those overtaking have the utmost responsibility to give way to those whom they are overtaking.
And yet, they’re inescapable. Today, I encountered a runner salmoning in the bike lane, as I approached, he made no attempt to change course, and I was forced to ride into the traffic lane. The most ridiculous part? He was running right over one of the “bicycle lane” markings as he did it. It’s the same inconsideration I’ve faced on the MUP, on the road.
For myself personally, it’s not difficult for me to see why some cyclists hold contempt for the MUP.
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04-17-20, 06:45 AM
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Came across a new one for me on Tuesday. Went for an evening run. Used about 90% sidewalk and neighborhood road to avoid the greenway.
I took a little bit of greenway on the way home that has two little bridges.
I come across some human filth dude just laying in the middle of the bridge on his belly doing "superman" ab exercises. No way if a bike was coming to get by.
He had headphones on also. Wish the greenway maintenance 4x4 was coming through about then. Lol.
I took a little bit of greenway on the way home that has two little bridges.
I come across some human filth dude just laying in the middle of the bridge on his belly doing "superman" ab exercises. No way if a bike was coming to get by.
He had headphones on also. Wish the greenway maintenance 4x4 was coming through about then. Lol.
04-17-20, 10:45 AM
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Have you ever walked around Brussels? The cycle path is literally a couple of painted lines on the pedestrian sidewalk. During commuting times in particular, but all of the time in actuality, cyclists fly (12 - 15 mph??) along the sidewalk inches from pedestrians. You have to watch your step if you're walking. I'm sure that there are collisions. I wonder who is held at fault if a pedestrian is hit while in the cycle pathway?
The bikes have absolute right of way in the bike lanes. It was kinda nice.Having said that, I would still ring the bell so as not to startle walkers, even when they weren't in the bike lane, but particularly to warn those with kids or dogs. Lots of people around here don't seem to recognize what the bell means on the MUP. I know it can be heard, because enough of them react, but probably more than half are oblivious even if they hear it. I resort to the horn at that point (not a long, loud blast, mind, just a quick blip they can't ignore).
04-17-20, 02:58 PM
#84
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Almost sorry for being a little irritated... but... for me it is still the mother elfin' car/truck drivers 
Almost zero mup user alpha-holes, vs almost a guarantee on EVERY state law protected crossing that at least one (usually more) gas-hole will blow through even with grand distance for stopping, airzound warning before entering, and pulsed lighting directed their way... THEN they curse YOU!
We need those train crossing bars in Atlanta just for our mup crossings....
Almost zero mup user alpha-holes, vs almost a guarantee on EVERY state law protected crossing that at least one (usually more) gas-hole will blow through even with grand distance for stopping, airzound warning before entering, and pulsed lighting directed their way... THEN they curse YOU!
We need those train crossing bars in Atlanta just for our mup crossings....
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04-18-20, 01:17 AM
#85
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Nail on head
The only problem with MUPS is the pedestrians that have no concept of sharing or regard for others use of the same space.
Things like walking 3 abreast.
Things like unleashed dogs or dogs with excessively long leashes.
Things like joggers running up the middle of the path. Or, worse deciding to do a u-turn without regards to who they may be stepping in front of.
Things like the inability to understand such simple rules as: "All trail users keep right"
You can post all the signs with rules you like. Americans can't read. Or, at the very least, if they can, they are too special for "rules." Rules are for "the others."
Earphones, headsets, disregard for others, random ignorant banshee children everywhere...Good civics, sharing, concern for others isn't really what Americans do.
Sorry.
Just callin' it like it is.
Things like walking 3 abreast.
Things like unleashed dogs or dogs with excessively long leashes.
Things like joggers running up the middle of the path. Or, worse deciding to do a u-turn without regards to who they may be stepping in front of.
Things like the inability to understand such simple rules as: "All trail users keep right"
You can post all the signs with rules you like. Americans can't read. Or, at the very least, if they can, they are too special for "rules." Rules are for "the others."
Earphones, headsets, disregard for others, random ignorant banshee children everywhere...Good civics, sharing, concern for others isn't really what Americans do.
Sorry.
Just callin' it like it is.
04-18-20, 05:29 AM
#86
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Have you ever walked around Brussels? The cycle path is literally a couple of painted lines on the pedestrian sidewalk. During commuting times in particular, but all of the time in actuality, cyclists fly (12 - 15 mph??) along the sidewalk inches from pedestrians. You have to watch your step if you're walking. I'm sure that there are collisions. I wonder who is held at fault if a pedestrian is hit while in the cycle pathway?
Cheers
04-24-20, 08:49 PM
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And it's still the elfin' gas maggots! Today, one of my favorites 
: construction trucks, with trailers, tires full of mud, with wise-arsein' "worker" claiming he can't park on an EMPTY cul du sac in an undeveloped sub division, taking up the whole malfin' MUP!!! 
Hangin's too good fer 'em....
: construction trucks, with trailers, tires full of mud, with wise-arsein' "worker" claiming he can't park on an EMPTY cul du sac in an undeveloped sub division, taking up the whole malfin' MUP!!! Hangin's too good fer 'em....
04-24-20, 09:01 PM
#88
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And it's still the elfin' gas maggots! Today, one of my favorites : construction trucks, with trailers, tires full of mud, with wise-arsein' "worker" claiming he can't park on an EMPTY cul du sac in an undeveloped sub division, taking up the whole malfin' MUP!!! Hangin's too good fer 'em....
: construction trucks, with trailers, tires full of mud, with wise-arsein' "worker" claiming he can't park on an EMPTY cul du sac in an undeveloped sub division, taking up the whole malfin' MUP!!! Hangin's too good fer 'em....
04-24-20, 09:12 PM
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Intended to on return trip... even had cell with me... gone....
Wouldn't be the first report I've filed. Most distressing part is the silence when requesting support from the MUP's foundation... lots of pretty signs quoting the law... but silence when the rubber hits the MUP....
Wouldn't be the first report I've filed. Most distressing part is the silence when requesting support from the MUP's foundation... lots of pretty signs quoting the law... but silence when the rubber hits the MUP....
04-25-20, 02:06 PM
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I don't mind an MUP which is either lightly used or provides a decent alternative, such as an adjacent Class II bike lane. For those familiar with north coastal San Diego County, we just lost the finest local Class II, on the stretch of Coast Highway 101 connecting Cardiff-by-the-Sea (southwesternmost portion of the city of Encinitas) and Solana Beach. In its finite wisdom, the Encinitas city council replaced the Class II with a heavily used MUP bordered by asphalt curbs. Now cyclists have the choice of claiming a 45mph travel lane or dodging joggers, surfboards, contraflow recreational cyclists, kids, dogs, etc. in the new facility. This is not a problem for the casual family outing, the pedestrians, or the club peletons, but it is sheer hell for us solo cyclists, including commuters, shoppers, and others who ride a bike to go somewhere, instead of going somewhere to ride a bike. This thing is wretched, and in its first week of operation has already claimed one victim, who took a nasty spill on a "where did that come from" asphalt berm. Northbound, it terminates in the left side of a right turn only lane, instead of the right side of a through lane.
Here is the northbound movie. Southbound (oceanfront) is worse in some ways, because of the crowds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCl...ature=youtu.be
It begins deceptively in Solana Beach with the Class II on a fairly fast descent, but keep watching for the not-so-fun part. My friend, Karl, took the temporarily closed segment of the #2 lane, but decided to stay there for safety, with the heavily used right turn coming up. Note the road worker motioning him to switch back over to the bike lane.
Here is the northbound movie. Southbound (oceanfront) is worse in some ways, because of the crowds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgCl...ature=youtu.be
It begins deceptively in Solana Beach with the Class II on a fairly fast descent, but keep watching for the not-so-fun part. My friend, Karl, took the temporarily closed segment of the #2 lane, but decided to stay there for safety, with the heavily used right turn coming up. Note the road worker motioning him to switch back over to the bike lane.
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04-25-20, 09:27 PM
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Today was (sadly) more typical with a car op sitting across the mup... could've exited, but waved the other car on just to sit there. When civilly asked to move, ignored the request. Typical....
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04-28-20, 07:45 AM
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Our MUPS have seen a dramatic increase in use of late. I definitely have to be more alert. Even in places where they typically see little use they are crowded. It's not the time to be trying to earn personal bests. It's less convenient for me, but it makes me happy to see people enjoying the outdoors and exercise.
04-29-20, 07:13 PM
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Four wheeled Richard shenanigans again: Stone Mountain City workers couldn't arse themselves to park their truck 30 yards away and walk their weed whackers... couldn't even fathom the concept... instead, calmly contended it was necessary to occlude the MUP and force others off. Additionally surreal in that the polite conversation was between a thinnish cyclist and a hugely pot-bellied govt drone for the city. Just no common ground 
Second incident was the doozy. Lighted, signed MUP crossing. Light was red, I had tooted the airhorn IN CASE the car op was deep in a bucket of chicken, shined the flashing light his way AND he was down the road with ample stopping time! Got totally DILLIGAFFed by this punk! As I was edging into the crossing (I ain't stupid enough to trust a cager) he speeds through the red lighted crossing, just barely changing trajectory.
From what I see, most days from four wheelers... pointing out imperfections of the cyclist is a gross, self-serving joke....
Second incident was the doozy. Lighted, signed MUP crossing. Light was red, I had tooted the airhorn IN CASE the car op was deep in a bucket of chicken, shined the flashing light his way AND he was down the road with ample stopping time! Got totally DILLIGAFFed by this punk! As I was edging into the crossing (I ain't stupid enough to trust a cager) he speeds through the red lighted crossing, just barely changing trajectory.
From what I see, most days from four wheelers... pointing out imperfections of the cyclist is a gross, self-serving joke....
04-29-20, 10:01 PM
#94
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Many times it is necessary for a municipality/township/county to impose written ordinances and post a maximum speed limits of 12 MPH.
Prohibiting skateboarding and prohibiting any form of motorized transportation (scooters, segways, golf carts, electric bicycles, gas powered bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes, motorcycles, smartcars, tractors, riding lawnmowers, cars, trucks, suvs, etc...) EXCEPT for OFFICIAL MUNICIPAL MAINTAINENCE/ PARK RANGER/PARK POLICE or EMERGENCY and LAW ENFORCEMENT, or other AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL VEHICLES!
Have the law enforcement officers that monitor and patrol the path to serve and protect the safety of the Path users, should have a the discretion to determine whether they wish to write up and cite any cyclist with a $250 citation for SPEEDING and OR GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS / RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, -or- whether they wish to simply issue a Warning.
You simply cannot have folks that think it is okay to ride on such Multi-Use Paths at anything but a SLOW speed. Twelve miles per hour is swift enough as a compromise that gives a slow enough 10, 11, to 12mph speed that can keep the cyclist moving forward slowly enough, but swiftly enough and yet safe enough so that the cyclist can SLOW to 6 or 7 mph or a complete stop if that is necessary. You have CHILDREN and Animals, both of which are almost never predictable in whatever direction that they might waddle, weave, stop, or turn, or quickly dart. These multi-use paths were generally Not built for the sole purpose of some few arrogant fast riding roadbike warriors who feel that they are entitled to ride as fast as they wish to on these paths even in the presence of elderly folks, young parents with babies in strollers, folks walking dogs, folks from 3 years old to 102 years old all moving very leisurely..................-you've got folks jogging- running for exercise and you've got folks jogging-running with the baby in the jog-stroller ahead of them...........people eating moonpies, drinking coca-colas, eating ice cream, talking, sharing moments laughing and a quick hug or a quick kiss.........folks who are not in a hurry but who are enjoying the moments outdoors with the family and friends while slowly strolling with the dogs and the kids, and aunt jane, uncle bill, and grandpa and grandma. Joggers and runners have historically been more courteous and less selfish towards those folks that are just slowly wandering along the path with no particular pattern of movement with no particular place to go. Sure, these people that largely fill these multi-use paths are wandering randomly all over with their dogs and children moving even more unpredicably. That is the nature of human behavior of this type. They are using the path. These folks make up the largest population that uses the path. Thus, for bicycle riders to be able to comingle and move about the path, the bicycle rider MUST UNDERSTAND that there is a fundamental requirement that they move along at a SLOW PACE that is safe enough for all the people, animals, children, and the cyclists too. Yes, there is probably no doubt that most cyclists are focused and concentrating on safe movement, much more than the wandering-strolling-eeezin on down the road pedestrians/children/dogs that are wandering along in no logical or predictable patterns. That is just the way it is.
You cannot expect that the mass of the "on their feet" walkin along-walkin the dogs n kids down the long and winding road crowd to behave or stroll along in an orderly or single file or orderly military style parade march. What you have essentially is organized chaos with zig-zagging dogs, children and walking adults and jogging joggers among folks that are stopped and standing in place, and or changing directions....etc........--------YOU JUST CANNOT HAVE CYCLISTS TRAVELLING AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 12 MPH AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OTHER PEDESTRIAN HUMANS/PETS ARE WITHIN 500 YARDS (1500 feet) of THE PERSON RIDING THE BICYCLE.------------. This is why the 12 MPH SPEED LIMIT is essential.
There needs to be enforcement if cyclists fail see the need to travel along and among the pedestrians/dogs and children at a Slow Pace!
Stiff fines are perhaps one way. Another possible way to combat excess speed is strategic placement of speed bumps if all other measures do not work.
Establishing ordinances and official posted speed limits will also serve to give legal responsibility and notice to any cyclist that chooses to disregard the official posted speed limit, and thus then finds that have a collision or accident with anyone or anyone's child, or pet, then in such a situation, depending on the circumstances and "speed" involved, the cyclist may find that there may be contributory negligence and reckless conduct on their part because they were riding too fast.
I am not promoting a lawyer versus lawyer sort it out that way type of thing, but if people cannot realize that you can't ride full out on such a populated path with slow moving people, children and dogs....... Everybody has an excellent video camera on their phone!
Some cyclists need to realize that the arrogant attitude of well I just can't ride that slow, just is unacceptable!! IF YOU CANNOT RIDE SLOW ENOUGH SUCH THAT YOU ARE BOTH OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT AND ALSO RIDING AT A SAFE SPEED FOR THE PREVAILING CONDITIONS, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING ON A MULTI-USE PATH WITH SPEED LIMIT AND HEAVY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IF YOU MUST RIDE AT GREATER SPEED.
Prohibiting skateboarding and prohibiting any form of motorized transportation (scooters, segways, golf carts, electric bicycles, gas powered bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes, motorcycles, smartcars, tractors, riding lawnmowers, cars, trucks, suvs, etc...) EXCEPT for OFFICIAL MUNICIPAL MAINTAINENCE/ PARK RANGER/PARK POLICE or EMERGENCY and LAW ENFORCEMENT, or other AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL VEHICLES!
Have the law enforcement officers that monitor and patrol the path to serve and protect the safety of the Path users, should have a the discretion to determine whether they wish to write up and cite any cyclist with a $250 citation for SPEEDING and OR GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS / RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, -or- whether they wish to simply issue a Warning.
You simply cannot have folks that think it is okay to ride on such Multi-Use Paths at anything but a SLOW speed. Twelve miles per hour is swift enough as a compromise that gives a slow enough 10, 11, to 12mph speed that can keep the cyclist moving forward slowly enough, but swiftly enough and yet safe enough so that the cyclist can SLOW to 6 or 7 mph or a complete stop if that is necessary. You have CHILDREN and Animals, both of which are almost never predictable in whatever direction that they might waddle, weave, stop, or turn, or quickly dart. These multi-use paths were generally Not built for the sole purpose of some few arrogant fast riding roadbike warriors who feel that they are entitled to ride as fast as they wish to on these paths even in the presence of elderly folks, young parents with babies in strollers, folks walking dogs, folks from 3 years old to 102 years old all moving very leisurely..................-you've got folks jogging- running for exercise and you've got folks jogging-running with the baby in the jog-stroller ahead of them...........people eating moonpies, drinking coca-colas, eating ice cream, talking, sharing moments laughing and a quick hug or a quick kiss.........folks who are not in a hurry but who are enjoying the moments outdoors with the family and friends while slowly strolling with the dogs and the kids, and aunt jane, uncle bill, and grandpa and grandma. Joggers and runners have historically been more courteous and less selfish towards those folks that are just slowly wandering along the path with no particular pattern of movement with no particular place to go. Sure, these people that largely fill these multi-use paths are wandering randomly all over with their dogs and children moving even more unpredicably. That is the nature of human behavior of this type. They are using the path. These folks make up the largest population that uses the path. Thus, for bicycle riders to be able to comingle and move about the path, the bicycle rider MUST UNDERSTAND that there is a fundamental requirement that they move along at a SLOW PACE that is safe enough for all the people, animals, children, and the cyclists too. Yes, there is probably no doubt that most cyclists are focused and concentrating on safe movement, much more than the wandering-strolling-eeezin on down the road pedestrians/children/dogs that are wandering along in no logical or predictable patterns. That is just the way it is.
You cannot expect that the mass of the "on their feet" walkin along-walkin the dogs n kids down the long and winding road crowd to behave or stroll along in an orderly or single file or orderly military style parade march. What you have essentially is organized chaos with zig-zagging dogs, children and walking adults and jogging joggers among folks that are stopped and standing in place, and or changing directions....etc........--------YOU JUST CANNOT HAVE CYCLISTS TRAVELLING AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 12 MPH AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OTHER PEDESTRIAN HUMANS/PETS ARE WITHIN 500 YARDS (1500 feet) of THE PERSON RIDING THE BICYCLE.------------. This is why the 12 MPH SPEED LIMIT is essential.
There needs to be enforcement if cyclists fail see the need to travel along and among the pedestrians/dogs and children at a Slow Pace!
Stiff fines are perhaps one way. Another possible way to combat excess speed is strategic placement of speed bumps if all other measures do not work.
Establishing ordinances and official posted speed limits will also serve to give legal responsibility and notice to any cyclist that chooses to disregard the official posted speed limit, and thus then finds that have a collision or accident with anyone or anyone's child, or pet, then in such a situation, depending on the circumstances and "speed" involved, the cyclist may find that there may be contributory negligence and reckless conduct on their part because they were riding too fast.
I am not promoting a lawyer versus lawyer sort it out that way type of thing, but if people cannot realize that you can't ride full out on such a populated path with slow moving people, children and dogs....... Everybody has an excellent video camera on their phone!
Some cyclists need to realize that the arrogant attitude of well I just can't ride that slow, just is unacceptable!! IF YOU CANNOT RIDE SLOW ENOUGH SUCH THAT YOU ARE BOTH OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT AND ALSO RIDING AT A SAFE SPEED FOR THE PREVAILING CONDITIONS, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING ON A MULTI-USE PATH WITH SPEED LIMIT AND HEAVY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IF YOU MUST RIDE AT GREATER SPEED.
04-30-20, 12:16 AM
#95
I am potato.
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Many times it is necessary for a municipality/township/county to impose written ordinances and post a maximum speed limits of 12 MPH.
Prohibiting skateboarding and prohibiting any form of motorized transportation (scooters, segways, golf carts, electric bicycles, gas powered bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes, motorcycles, smartcars, tractors, riding lawnmowers, cars, trucks, suvs, etc...) EXCEPT for OFFICIAL MUNICIPAL MAINTAINENCE/ PARK RANGER/PARK POLICE or EMERGENCY and LAW ENFORCEMENT, or other AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL VEHICLES!
Have the law enforcement officers that monitor and patrol the path to serve and protect the safety of the Path users, should have a the discretion to determine whether they wish to write up and cite any cyclist with a $250 citation for SPEEDING and OR GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS / RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, -or- whether they wish to simply issue a Warning.
You simply cannot have folks that think it is okay to ride on such Multi-Use Paths at anything but a SLOW speed. Twelve miles per hour is swift enough as a compromise that gives a slow enough 10, 11, to 12mph speed that can keep the cyclist moving forward slowly enough, but swiftly enough and yet safe enough so that the cyclist can SLOW to 6 or 7 mph or a complete stop if that is necessary. You have CHILDREN and Animals, both of which are almost never predictable in whatever direction that they might waddle, weave, stop, or turn, or quickly dart. These multi-use paths were generally Not built for the sole purpose of some few arrogant fast riding roadbike warriors who feel that they are entitled to ride as fast as they wish to on these paths even in the presence of elderly folks, young parents with babies in strollers, folks walking dogs, folks from 3 years old to 102 years old all moving very leisurely..................-you've got folks jogging- running for exercise and you've got folks jogging-running with the baby in the jog-stroller ahead of them...........people eating moonpies, drinking coca-colas, eating ice cream, talking, sharing moments laughing and a quick hug or a quick kiss.........folks who are not in a hurry but who are enjoying the moments outdoors with the family and friends while slowly strolling with the dogs and the kids, and aunt jane, uncle bill, and grandpa and grandma. Joggers and runners have historically been more courteous and less selfish towards those folks that are just slowly wandering along the path with no particular pattern of movement with no particular place to go. Sure, these people that largely fill these multi-use paths are wandering randomly all over with their dogs and children moving even more unpredicably. That is the nature of human behavior of this type. They are using the path. These folks make up the largest population that uses the path. Thus, for bicycle riders to be able to comingle and move about the path, the bicycle rider MUST UNDERSTAND that there is a fundamental requirement that they move along at a SLOW PACE that is safe enough for all the people, animals, children, and the cyclists too. Yes, there is probably no doubt that most cyclists are focused and concentrating on safe movement, much more than the wandering-strolling-eeezin on down the road pedestrians/children/dogs that are wandering along in no logical or predictable patterns. That is just the way it is.
You cannot expect that the mass of the "on their feet" walkin along-walkin the dogs n kids down the long and winding road crowd to behave or stroll along in an orderly or single file or orderly military style parade march. What you have essentially is organized chaos with zig-zagging dogs, children and walking adults and jogging joggers among folks that are stopped and standing in place, and or changing directions....etc........--------YOU JUST CANNOT HAVE CYCLISTS TRAVELLING AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 12 MPH AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OTHER PEDESTRIAN HUMANS/PETS ARE WITHIN 500 YARDS (1500 feet) of THE PERSON RIDING THE BICYCLE.------------. This is why the 12 MPH SPEED LIMIT is essential.
There needs to be enforcement if cyclists fail see the need to travel along and among the pedestrians/dogs and children at a Slow Pace!
Stiff fines are perhaps one way. Another possible way to combat excess speed is strategic placement of speed bumps if all other measures do not work.
Establishing ordinances and official posted speed limits will also serve to give legal responsibility and notice to any cyclist that chooses to disregard the official posted speed limit, and thus then finds that have a collision or accident with anyone or anyone's child, or pet, then in such a situation, depending on the circumstances and "speed" involved, the cyclist may find that there may be contributory negligence and reckless conduct on their part because they were riding too fast.
I am not promoting a lawyer versus lawyer sort it out that way type of thing, but if people cannot realize that you can't ride full out on such a populated path with slow moving people, children and dogs....... Everybody has an excellent video camera on their phone!
Some cyclists need to realize that the arrogant attitude of well I just can't ride that slow, just is unacceptable!! IF YOU CANNOT RIDE SLOW ENOUGH SUCH THAT YOU ARE BOTH OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT AND ALSO RIDING AT A SAFE SPEED FOR THE PREVAILING CONDITIONS, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING ON A MULTI-USE PATH WITH SPEED LIMIT AND HEAVY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IF YOU MUST RIDE AT GREATER SPEED.
Prohibiting skateboarding and prohibiting any form of motorized transportation (scooters, segways, golf carts, electric bicycles, gas powered bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes, motorcycles, smartcars, tractors, riding lawnmowers, cars, trucks, suvs, etc...) EXCEPT for OFFICIAL MUNICIPAL MAINTAINENCE/ PARK RANGER/PARK POLICE or EMERGENCY and LAW ENFORCEMENT, or other AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL VEHICLES!
Have the law enforcement officers that monitor and patrol the path to serve and protect the safety of the Path users, should have a the discretion to determine whether they wish to write up and cite any cyclist with a $250 citation for SPEEDING and OR GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS / RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT, -or- whether they wish to simply issue a Warning.
You simply cannot have folks that think it is okay to ride on such Multi-Use Paths at anything but a SLOW speed. Twelve miles per hour is swift enough as a compromise that gives a slow enough 10, 11, to 12mph speed that can keep the cyclist moving forward slowly enough, but swiftly enough and yet safe enough so that the cyclist can SLOW to 6 or 7 mph or a complete stop if that is necessary. You have CHILDREN and Animals, both of which are almost never predictable in whatever direction that they might waddle, weave, stop, or turn, or quickly dart. These multi-use paths were generally Not built for the sole purpose of some few arrogant fast riding roadbike warriors who feel that they are entitled to ride as fast as they wish to on these paths even in the presence of elderly folks, young parents with babies in strollers, folks walking dogs, folks from 3 years old to 102 years old all moving very leisurely..................-you've got folks jogging- running for exercise and you've got folks jogging-running with the baby in the jog-stroller ahead of them...........people eating moonpies, drinking coca-colas, eating ice cream, talking, sharing moments laughing and a quick hug or a quick kiss.........folks who are not in a hurry but who are enjoying the moments outdoors with the family and friends while slowly strolling with the dogs and the kids, and aunt jane, uncle bill, and grandpa and grandma. Joggers and runners have historically been more courteous and less selfish towards those folks that are just slowly wandering along the path with no particular pattern of movement with no particular place to go. Sure, these people that largely fill these multi-use paths are wandering randomly all over with their dogs and children moving even more unpredicably. That is the nature of human behavior of this type. They are using the path. These folks make up the largest population that uses the path. Thus, for bicycle riders to be able to comingle and move about the path, the bicycle rider MUST UNDERSTAND that there is a fundamental requirement that they move along at a SLOW PACE that is safe enough for all the people, animals, children, and the cyclists too. Yes, there is probably no doubt that most cyclists are focused and concentrating on safe movement, much more than the wandering-strolling-eeezin on down the road pedestrians/children/dogs that are wandering along in no logical or predictable patterns. That is just the way it is.
You cannot expect that the mass of the "on their feet" walkin along-walkin the dogs n kids down the long and winding road crowd to behave or stroll along in an orderly or single file or orderly military style parade march. What you have essentially is organized chaos with zig-zagging dogs, children and walking adults and jogging joggers among folks that are stopped and standing in place, and or changing directions....etc........--------YOU JUST CANNOT HAVE CYCLISTS TRAVELLING AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 12 MPH AT ANY TIME THAT ANY OTHER PEDESTRIAN HUMANS/PETS ARE WITHIN 500 YARDS (1500 feet) of THE PERSON RIDING THE BICYCLE.------------. This is why the 12 MPH SPEED LIMIT is essential.
There needs to be enforcement if cyclists fail see the need to travel along and among the pedestrians/dogs and children at a Slow Pace!
Stiff fines are perhaps one way. Another possible way to combat excess speed is strategic placement of speed bumps if all other measures do not work.
Establishing ordinances and official posted speed limits will also serve to give legal responsibility and notice to any cyclist that chooses to disregard the official posted speed limit, and thus then finds that have a collision or accident with anyone or anyone's child, or pet, then in such a situation, depending on the circumstances and "speed" involved, the cyclist may find that there may be contributory negligence and reckless conduct on their part because they were riding too fast.
I am not promoting a lawyer versus lawyer sort it out that way type of thing, but if people cannot realize that you can't ride full out on such a populated path with slow moving people, children and dogs....... Everybody has an excellent video camera on their phone!
Some cyclists need to realize that the arrogant attitude of well I just can't ride that slow, just is unacceptable!! IF YOU CANNOT RIDE SLOW ENOUGH SUCH THAT YOU ARE BOTH OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT AND ALSO RIDING AT A SAFE SPEED FOR THE PREVAILING CONDITIONS, THEN PERHAPS YOU SHOULD NOT BE RIDING ON A MULTI-USE PATH WITH SPEED LIMIT AND HEAVY PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IF YOU MUST RIDE AT GREATER SPEED.
Something happen on the path, today?
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
Car dependency is a tax.
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04-30-20, 06:41 AM
#96
Tragically Ignorant
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05-02-20, 12:45 PM
#97
Senior Member
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I never have any problems once I'm on an MUP. However, in most places the intersections between MUPs and streets are extremely poorly designed. In Boulder, CO, they've done a pretty good job of building underpasses and on/off ramps, like miniature freeway entrances (it helps that most of their MUPs are running along creeks, well below street level). Most other places, though, you really have to watch what you're doing when you get on/off the MUP -- to most people driving cars, those intersections don't exist, and they treat them accordingly.
05-02-20, 01:22 PM
#99
Quidam Bike Super Hero
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I think he was trying to outFOX the FOX generation....
@ brianinc-ville : I take to heart about gassaholics ignoring inconvienent aspects of operating their cages... it's kept me alive! Yesterday, a trucker, plenty of visual room, left crossed me on the MUP. Non-emergency, hard breaking on my part. His hurry? To park 50 ft away in the auto parts drive. Was he in a life-endangering hurry to save someone's car from late repair, and hurrying out?! Nah, still there 15 mins later on my return trip.
Well, at least today's <10 mile trip was sweet.
Connected aside: (in someone's yard) A sign reads "Cyclists, slow down!"
This yard faces a short side street, with speed bumps, less than 50 yds, slight hill, that even a speed king would have trouble reaching the posted limit of 25mph....
@ brianinc-ville : I take to heart about gassaholics ignoring inconvienent aspects of operating their cages... it's kept me alive! Yesterday, a trucker, plenty of visual room, left crossed me on the MUP. Non-emergency, hard breaking on my part. His hurry? To park 50 ft away in the auto parts drive. Was he in a life-endangering hurry to save someone's car from late repair, and hurrying out?! Nah, still there 15 mins later on my return trip.
Well, at least today's <10 mile trip was sweet.
Connected aside: (in someone's yard) A sign reads "Cyclists, slow down!"
This yard faces a short side street, with speed bumps, less than 50 yds, slight hill, that even a speed king would have trouble reaching the posted limit of 25mph....
Last edited by Digger Goreman; 05-02-20 at 01:42 PM.
05-02-20, 02:39 PM
#100
The dropped
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Columbus, OH
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I think he was trying to outFOX the FOX generation....
@ brianinc-ville : I take to heart about gassaholics ignoring inconvienent aspects of operating their cages... it's kept me alive! Yesterday, a trucker, plenty of visual room, left crossed me on the MUP. Non-emergency, hard breaking on my part. His hurry? To park 50 ft away in the auto parts drive. Was he in a life-endangering hurry to save someone's car from late repair, and hurrying out?! Nah, still there 15 mins later on my return trip.
Well, at least today's <10 mile trip was sweet.
Connected aside: (in someone's yard) A sign reads "Cyclists, slow down!"
This yard faces a short side street, with speed bumps, less than 50 yds, slight hill, that even a speed king would have trouble reaching the posted limit of 25mph....
@ brianinc-ville : I take to heart about gassaholics ignoring inconvienent aspects of operating their cages... it's kept me alive! Yesterday, a trucker, plenty of visual room, left crossed me on the MUP. Non-emergency, hard breaking on my part. His hurry? To park 50 ft away in the auto parts drive. Was he in a life-endangering hurry to save someone's car from late repair, and hurrying out?! Nah, still there 15 mins later on my return trip.
Well, at least today's <10 mile trip was sweet.
Connected aside: (in someone's yard) A sign reads "Cyclists, slow down!"
This yard faces a short side street, with speed bumps, less than 50 yds, slight hill, that even a speed king would have trouble reaching the posted limit of 25mph....