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The price of C&V membership

Old 07-09-20, 07:11 PM
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Avocet saddle too! Straight out of the heartland...I think you're going to like it. Coincidentally I'm just creating a post about the Super Course I picked up for my son this past weekend.
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Old 07-10-20, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
non-fixie

So, have you shared with the collective yet?
While glowing with pride.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if that frame was originally meant to be a Competition. The lugwork, forged dropouts and short top tube seem out of place in a Carlton Super Course. It may even have Reynolds stays. From a distance, the fork ends look stamped and have a Vagner crown which would be consistant with a SC.

You may have a rare hybrid!

That is an interesting thought. The fork ends are indeed stamped:



However, the catalog page above doesn't mention the Competiton Mk II being available in this 25 1/2 inch size.

I'll check the seat post diameter later today. Maybe that will tell us more.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by daka View Post
Having a forged dropout is a good thing, but having a Huret forged dropout may limit your choices if you want to change derailleurs. The little step is in a different place on a Huret dropout than a Campy or Suntour one.

Nice find!
Thanks! I have yet to check what hanger shape I actually have here, but as I like Huret, the outcome is never going to be a problem, or even a disappointment.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ascherer View Post
Avocet saddle too! Straight out of the heartland...I think you're going to like it. Coincidentally I'm just creating a post about the Super Course I picked up for my son this past weekend.
The heartland ... I didn't find a shop sticker, but this is an indication it may well have come from the Portland area:



BTW, what's the deal with this Avocet saddle? Any reason not to replace it with a nicely-worn Brooks?
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Old 07-10-20, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Don't give up! (...)
I haven't even started!

TBH, I haven't even checked whether the seat post is stuck or not. I just bought it from the seller's pics, believing that the worst case scenario would be to have bought a fairly expensive Stronglight crankset and some Jubilee spare parts.
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Old 07-10-20, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
The heartland ... I didn't find a shop sticker, but this is an indication it may well have come from the Portland area:



BTW, what's the deal with this Avocet saddle? Any reason not to replace it with a nicely-worn Brooks?
Laying idle in the Pacific Northwest would explain the rust and oxidization for sure. I'm sure you'll check inside the frame for signs of corrosion internally, hopefully nothing serious. Avocet saddles were well-made and popular, considered to be one of the better non-leather saddles in their day. If Brooks is your preference there's no advantage to the Avocet.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
However, the catalog page above doesn't mention the Competiton Mk II being available in this 25 1/2 inch size.

I'll check the seat post diameter later today. Maybe that will tell us more.
Concur with the idea that the fork is conventional Super Course - thought so ever since I saw the Vagner DP fork crown.

I'm not surprised at the Prugnat 62 BIS lugs though. The 1974 and 1975 catalogs show them (as does '76, which reuses the '75 SC Mk.II picture), and they also show a Huret Challenger at the back end. At most, the factory subbed a pair of dropouts from the Competition parts pile. It'd explain the size too, given that no Competitions in 25.5" would have been hanging awaiting paint.





For all we know, the Jubilee might have been an owner upgrade. Or equal-or-better parts substitution given the dropout swap. I find it interesting that a bit of Grand Sport got into the mix too, given the Stronglight crankset. Another question of "factory swap or owner substitution?"

My biggest worry is that the seatpost and stem will come out for you (!)

-Kurt
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Old 07-10-20, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by microcord View Post
My eyes are drawn to the boldly dimensioned dork disc and (Wiccan?) pentagram on the crankset.

I'd be tempted to replace and maintain where necessary, but avoid anything cosmetic. This could be the (covertly excellent) ratbike par excellence, to be ridden with pride wherever the Rapha-clad gather. Savour the horrified reactions, and let them eat your dust.
The dorche' disque is a Sturmey Archer affair, aluminium, and a nice example of it's kind.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:56 AM
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You've found the bike of my youth!



Except my SC MkII didn't have an integrated derailleur hanger. Although Raleigh mixed and matched components willy-nilly, the OP's drivetrain is almost certainly an upgrade, just as mine was 45 years ago.

I currently have a 25" SC with integrated derailleur hanger in the Atelier for a future 1X conversion, but it's green. I subconsciously chose the red and white scheme when I had Ed Litton paint my first 650b conversion, torched up by Peter Weigle.

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Old 07-10-20, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
BTW, what's the deal with this Avocet saddle? Any reason not to replace it with a nicely-worn Brooks?
No, there isn't. I'd put one on straightaway.

Many people do not realize that by 1980 or so, you literally could not give away a leather saddle. They were seen as archaic by nearly everyone. It's a little funny to see them on bikes from that era, rebuilt as 'classic'.

Avocet were the dominant saddle in the American market from the late 70s until the early 90s. For the most part, they are simply rebranded Selle Italia models, at least for the first few years. I suspect some may have been sourced from San Marco. Towards the end, who knows where they came from...
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Old 07-10-20, 08:59 AM
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Just thought I'd share what I use to buff aluminum and chromed steel bike parts. The wheel is stainless steel and has .006" diameter crimped bristles. The thicker .010" bristle is too stiff, I only use it for bare steel. The wheel is mounted in an old Shop-Smith set to the lowest speed. Mounting this type of wheel directly to a motor will work, but the speed will be too fast. Slower speeds work well and are much safer (ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES).

https://www.mcmaster.com/wire-wheels...r~0-625inches/

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Old 07-10-20, 09:04 AM
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Old 07-10-20, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Thanks! I have yet to check what hanger shape I actually have here, but as I like Huret, the outcome is never going to be a problem, or even a disappointment.
I am with you there. All of my bikes are Huret equipped - the '73 Super Course has Huret Luxe (borrowed from my wife's '70 Super Course mixte), my Super Course Mk II has Huret Challenger, and my Raleigh International has Huret Success rear derailleur and levers.
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Old 07-10-20, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Just thought I'd share what I use to buff aluminum and chromed steel bike parts. The wheel is stainless steel and has .006" diameter crimped bristles. The thicker .010" bristle is too stiff, I only use it for bare steel. The wheel is mounted in an old Shop-Smith set to the lowest speed. Mounting this type of wheel directly to a motor will work, but the speed will be too fast. Slower speeds work well and are much safer (ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES).

https://www.mcmaster.com/wire-wheels...r~0-625inches/

I'm surprised that doesn't strip chrome off. Does it leave a brushed finish, or the mirror chrome surface?

I've been reading the forums, and the suggestion for chrome seems to be either just metal polish, or using brass wool, or some suggested crumpled aluminum foil as a soft scrubber.

I've got a fork and frame with socks that need cleanup.
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Old 07-10-20, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Just thought I'd share what I use to buff aluminum and chromed steel bike parts.


That looks WAY too aggressive - and even if it works, that's definitely not what I'd rely on entirely for a final finish. Ray Dobbins did a fairly indepth article on this:

About Polishing Aluminum

-Kurt
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Old 07-10-20, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Concur with the idea that the fork is conventional Super Course - thought so ever since I saw the Vagner DP fork crown.

I'm not surprised at the Prugnat 62 BIS lugs though. The 1974 and 1975 catalogs show them (as does '76, which reuses the '75 SC Mk.II picture), and they also show a Huret Challenger at the back end. At most, the factory subbed a pair of dropouts from the Competition parts pile. It'd explain the size too, given that no Competitions in 25.5" would have been hanging awaiting paint.





For all we know, the Jubilee might have been an owner upgrade. Or equal-or-better parts substitution given the dropout swap. I find it interesting that a bit of Grand Sport got into the mix too, given the Stronglight crankset. Another question of "factory swap or owner substitution?"

My biggest worry is that the seatpost and stem will come out for you (!)

-Kurt
The Prugnat 62bis lugs are one reason I like this bike. They add a touch of ... what's the English equivalent of je ne sais quoi? ... Pizzazz?

And thanks for your concern, but - surprisingly - the seat post came out in five seconds.
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Old 07-10-20, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
You've found the bike of my youth!



Except my SC MkII didn't have an integrated derailleur hanger. Although Raleigh mixed and matched components willy-nilly, the OP's drivetrain is almost certainly an upgrade, just as mine was 45 years ago.

I currently have a 25" SC with integrated derailleur hanger in the Atelier for a future 1X conversion, but it's green. I subconsciously chose the red and white scheme when I had Ed Litton paint my first 650b conversion, torched up by Peter Weigle.

Thanks, Mark. Your posts on these US market Raleighs were one reason the SC sort of sneaked its way up on my wish list.
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Old 07-10-20, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ascherer View Post
Laying idle in the Pacific Northwest would explain the rust and oxidization for sure. I'm sure you'll check inside the frame for signs of corrosion internally, hopefully nothing serious. Avocet saddles were well-made and popular, considered to be one of the better non-leather saddles in their day. If Brooks is your preference there's no advantage to the Avocet.
I am confident the oxidation and rust are mostly Dutch. I really can't imagine anyone taking the trouble to bring along a bike from the PNW to Holland in this condition. (I mean, I can of course, but not the SO who would condone that. )

And thank you for the feedback on the saddle. Much appreciated!
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Old 07-10-20, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
The Prugnat 62bis lugs are one reason I like this bike. They add a touch of ... what's the English equivalent of je ne sais quoi? ... Pizzazz?
Pizzazz it is. The 62 BIS on an English bike makes me think of small-run builders and the SBDU Professionals. They also respond beautifully to when a builder thins them.

Funny thing, as much as they look fantastic on an English bike, I never could get used to them on Paramounts. That's probably because the Nervex Pros are so synonymous with 'em.

Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
And thanks for your concern, but - surprisingly - the seat post came out in five seconds.
The virtual pint is on me then - hurdle #1 , accomplished!

-Kurt
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Old 07-10-20, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by microcord View Post
(...) This could be the (covertly excellent) ratbike par excellence, to be ridden with pride wherever the Rapha-clad gather. Savour the horrified reactions, and let them eat your dust.
Ha! Us Dutchies are way to cheap to buy into the Rapha concept. The few times I've seen a Rapha-clad figure in these parts it was invariably a foreigner. But I get what you mean, and yes, I would enjoy that. They'd have to be pretty hopeless to have to eat my dust, though.
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Old 07-10-20, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
(...) The virtual pint is on me then - hurdle #1 , accomplished!

-Kurt
Thanks, and cheers!


Oh, BTW, it was a 26.4.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tgot View Post
I'm surprised that doesn't strip chrome off. Does it leave a brushed finish, or the mirror chrome surface?

I've been reading the forums, and the suggestion for chrome seems to be either just metal polish, or using brass wool, or some suggested crumpled aluminum foil as a soft scrubber.

I've got a fork and frame with socks that need cleanup.
I've been using it for a couple of years. The .006" dia. bristles are soft. I buff small parts without using gloves and my fingers frequently come in contact with the spinning wheel and have never had my skin broken. This is probably the softest stainless steel wire wheel available. After years of using buffing wheels and compounds, I found that this particular setup is safer and faster.
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Old 07-10-20, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post


That looks WAY too aggressive - and even if it works, that's definitely not what I'd rely on entirely for a final finish. Ray Dobbins did a fairly indepth article on this:

About Polishing Aluminum

-Kurt
Nope, not aggressive at all. It's safe for the operator and the work. This isn't the final step, I use NEVR-DULL wadding polish for a mirror shine.

Polishing metal or plastic or whatever is the process of removing material, or leveling the surface. The smoother the surface is, the shinier it gets.

Here's a crank I did a couple of weeks ago. It was scratched, dented and the anodizing was worn off where the toe straps rubbed.

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Old 07-10-20, 05:06 PM
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My apologies to non-fixie , I don't want to derail this thread, just sharing my experiences of restoring old road bikes and encourage anyone to re-use as many of the original parts as you can...

one last example...

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