Fouled Steerer Threads - Richard Sachs
07-10-20, 02:27 PM
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Zip tie Karen
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Fouled Steerer Threads - Richard Sachs
Okay, I need help from the collective wisdom. Late 70s Sachs frame recently repainted and entrusted to me for the reassembly. Whoever handled the fork before me buggered up the steerer initial threads.
Last edited by Phil_gretz; 07-10-20 at 02:36 PM.
07-10-20, 02:30 PM
#2
Zip tie Karen
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Campy Headset...
with aluminum threaded parts.
It's all beautiful stuff...
It's all beautiful stuff...
07-10-20, 02:33 PM
#3
Zip tie Karen
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The frame and fork are beautiful...
and I don't want to screw this up. It's for a friend.
07-10-20, 02:35 PM
#4
Zip tie Karen
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So, What's next?
I cannot force aluminum threaded parts over those buggered threads. I need to remove the fouling. Chase with a steel headset nut? I'm frozen with fear...
Help?
Help?
07-10-20, 02:42 PM
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My shop has a die for threading steerer tubes, https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=44333
Your best bet is a shop that has been around for a while, or a Co-Op that works on old bikes.
Your best bet is a shop that has been around for a while, or a Co-Op that works on old bikes.
07-10-20, 02:52 PM
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Get a small triangular file and carefully chase the threads, it will work. Then thread new nut on. If you have a large steel nut that would be good to run down the threads on after using the file. A die that size is likely to be expensive.
Last edited by quindecima; 07-10-20 at 03:47 PM.
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07-10-20, 03:55 PM
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I'd go with careful, patient file work; the problem with a die is getting it started properly aligned with the existing threads. Get it wrong and you have made the problem a lot worse.
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07-10-20, 04:14 PM
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This. Careful, patient, wear cheaters.
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07-10-20, 04:33 PM
#11
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^ I can do this...
07-10-20, 04:42 PM
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All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
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07-10-20, 07:11 PM
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...I have one of those steerer threading die tools from Hozan, that I got when a local shop closed, but I wouldn't break it out for that.
Even if you're not very good with a file, losing the first thread or so is not a big deal, unless your steerer is pretty short for the headset stack height.
So worst case scenario is that you file it down and lose the thread that's damaged, but it clears enough so your headset parts will thread on square.
Whereas if you're not very good with the threading die, you can get into all kinds of trouble.
After the cleanup, I do think I'd run a steel headset race up and down a time or two before I tried the aluminum stuff, just to make sure everything is clean and unobstructed.
You can still get the transfers for a 70's Sachs from his painter, (Joe Bell, I think, if he's still painting stuff). He gets them made up in batches by someone he calls the "Decal Wizard". It can take a while to get them, but they're about the same price as any other decals. He might want a picture of your frame details to ID it as a genuine Sachs. The frame builder is understandably anxious about counterfeiting.
...I have one of those steerer threading die tools from Hozan, that I got when a local shop closed, but I wouldn't break it out for that.
Even if you're not very good with a file, losing the first thread or so is not a big deal, unless your steerer is pretty short for the headset stack height.
So worst case scenario is that you file it down and lose the thread that's damaged, but it clears enough so your headset parts will thread on square.
Whereas if you're not very good with the threading die, you can get into all kinds of trouble.
After the cleanup, I do think I'd run a steel headset race up and down a time or two before I tried the aluminum stuff, just to make sure everything is clean and unobstructed.
You can still get the transfers for a 70's Sachs from his painter, (Joe Bell, I think, if he's still painting stuff). He gets them made up in batches by someone he calls the "Decal Wizard". It can take a while to get them, but they're about the same price as any other decals. He might want a picture of your frame details to ID it as a genuine Sachs. The frame builder is understandably anxious about counterfeiting.
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07-10-20, 07:27 PM
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There are *METRIC* thread files too!
METRIC THREAD FILE
EDIT: The advantage of this file is that the adjacent good threads guide the file to restore the damaged ones.
METRIC THREAD FILE
EDIT: The advantage of this file is that the adjacent good threads guide the file to restore the damaged ones.
Last edited by sweeks; 07-10-20 at 07:34 PM.
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07-10-20, 07:49 PM
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Richard will sell you correct decals directly once provenance is confirmed. They are not cheap, but they are lovely. And correct.
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07-10-20, 10:20 PM
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07-10-20, 10:58 PM
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Look I hate to be the bearer of bad news and so sorry that nobody else was brave enough to tell you but the entire frame is trashed and you should send it to me so I can get it to the proper metal recyclers so it doesn't further harm the planet or get anyone killed. I work with some good recycling centers that make sure deadly frames and headsets like that don't wind up in the wrong hands and kill again.
Tell your friend I am saving their life but know I am not a hero for doing this just a regular schmuck trying to do a little good.
Tell your friend I am saving their life but know I am not a hero for doing this just a regular schmuck trying to do a little good.
07-11-20, 06:52 AM
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All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
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07-11-20, 10:01 AM
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07-12-20, 09:56 AM
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I've had mixed luck with files for jobs like that. A thread chase is risky because you first need to thread it on. With a screwed up first thread there is a high chance of cross threading.
With the picture you have a pointed awl might help you reshape that first thread. Just drag it though the root of the thread
Don't know that I would use a thread restoring file for just the top thread.
Like someone else said if you have sufficient thread engagement you can generally afford to lose the first thread or so. I have a small belt sander used for sharpening knives. With a light touch and fine grit you can probably *taper* off that first thread so you can get to the clean one below it. I would only do that after cleaning it up with the awl.
Excellent read
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...hread-concepts
With the picture you have a pointed awl might help you reshape that first thread. Just drag it though the root of the thread
Don't know that I would use a thread restoring file for just the top thread.
Like someone else said if you have sufficient thread engagement you can generally afford to lose the first thread or so. I have a small belt sander used for sharpening knives. With a light touch and fine grit you can probably *taper* off that first thread so you can get to the clean one below it. I would only do that after cleaning it up with the awl.
Excellent read
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...hread-concepts
Last edited by Pop N Wood; 07-12-20 at 10:01 AM.
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07-12-20, 11:42 AM
#21
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All the guys I respect say the same thing: use a triangular file to chase just those last few threads. Start with the file in a good thread, get it up near where the crud is, then gently see if you can get the crud off. Observe where the file is cutting and repeat. Easy does it.
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
..
I would NOT use a die to chase those threads.
BTW, you could also use a thread restoring file (probably a 24 tpi one) as below:
..
07-12-20, 06:15 PM
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I was a tool and die maker by trade and I would strongly suggest not to start fooling around its files and misc. thread files. Find a bike a bike shop with proper head tube die threader to clear up the fork. I work as a mill right as well and still it would be a last choice to start fooling around with a needle file.
07-12-20, 06:32 PM
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I was a tool and die maker by trade and I would strongly suggest not to start fooling around its files and misc. thread files. Find a bike a bike shop with proper head tube die threader to clear up the fork. I work as a mill right as well and still it would be a last choice to start fooling around with a needle file.
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07-12-20, 06:53 PM
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Isn't it just the first thread that is boogered up? Just file that away with a flat bastard file or lightly touch it on a belt sander with the belt running toward the inside of the tube. A belt sander on a stand would be my preference, then a flat file, then a hand held belt sander. Heck even a strip of emery cloth.
A die will be an issue because this is on the starting thread of the tube. A thread file will be an issue because you don't need to remove any material but that ugly burr on the first thread. You might can get away with a triangular file, but you will be removing material of the thread that is not messed up too. If you use a triangular file, use it like you would a flat file or sanding belt and go across from outside to inside.
A die will be an issue because this is on the starting thread of the tube. A thread file will be an issue because you don't need to remove any material but that ugly burr on the first thread. You might can get away with a triangular file, but you will be removing material of the thread that is not messed up too. If you use a triangular file, use it like you would a flat file or sanding belt and go across from outside to inside.