Why is steel out of favour?
#1
Why is steel out of favour?
Is there a reason steel is not used much now days?
Most articles i read on the topic say due to newer steel types & manufacturing methods, steel frames are now much lighter, to make the difference in weight too little to worry about for all but the pros.
A lot of the articles also say steel is more durable with a longer life and easier repaired.
Carbon is getting more affordable but many sources say cheaper carbon frames are inferior to metal frames in the same price braket & a good carbon frame is expensive.
Ive no doubt the articles are written with a bit of bias, but is there much truth? is weight not so much of an issue now days in relation to steel frames vs the average aluminium bike?
Most articles i read on the topic say due to newer steel types & manufacturing methods, steel frames are now much lighter, to make the difference in weight too little to worry about for all but the pros.
A lot of the articles also say steel is more durable with a longer life and easier repaired.
Carbon is getting more affordable but many sources say cheaper carbon frames are inferior to metal frames in the same price braket & a good carbon frame is expensive.
Ive no doubt the articles are written with a bit of bias, but is there much truth? is weight not so much of an issue now days in relation to steel frames vs the average aluminium bike?
Likes For mack_turtle:
#3
bOsscO
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 746
Bikes: 2024 Spec Crux, 2015 Norco Search S1, 93 Mongoose IBOC COMP
Liked 358 Times
in
212 Posts
I wouldn't say it's out of favour, in fact one could argue that steel is the first choice of many low-production and boutique brands of bikes.
I currently ride a steel framed Norco Search S1 from 2015. While Norco makes way more carbon and aluminum frames, they're still producing steel framed bikes; https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/roa...el/section-s2/
Almost all Rivendell bikes are steel.
Same with Surly bikes.
I currently ride a steel framed Norco Search S1 from 2015. While Norco makes way more carbon and aluminum frames, they're still producing steel framed bikes; https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/roa...el/section-s2/
Almost all Rivendell bikes are steel.
Same with Surly bikes.
#4
bOsscO
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 746
Bikes: 2024 Spec Crux, 2015 Norco Search S1, 93 Mongoose IBOC COMP
Liked 358 Times
in
212 Posts
Right? I'm sort of coveting this All City model; https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion_force_1
Likes For bOsscO:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 6,006
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Liked 2,277 Times
in
1,393 Posts
I could be wrong, but I think it was due top the trade wars. Recent studies found that steel was vastly superior in downhill speed and major manufacturers were poised to shift the majority of their production to steel. No amount of pedaling could overcome this advantage. This coupled with e-assist for climbing made it a true win-win.
Maybe someday when things get back to normal.
John
Maybe someday when things get back to normal.
John
#6
n00b
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397
Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando
Liked 466 Times
in
273 Posts
I spent several weeks drooling over some steel bikes before buying the steel hotness of a Twin Six Standard Rando.
Standard_Rando_ExtraBlack_studio_2 by TWIN SIX, on Flickr
only one aluminum bike briefly crossed my mind.
Standard_Rando_ExtraBlack_studio_2 by TWIN SIX, on Flickr
only one aluminum bike briefly crossed my mind.
Likes For mack_turtle:
#7
Didn’t we just do this a couple of months ago!
Why, yes we did:
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ove-steel.html
Why, yes we did:
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ove-steel.html
Last edited by indyfabz; 09-23-20 at 03:08 PM.
Likes For indyfabz:
#8
Senior Member
I could be wrong, but I think it was due top the trade wars. Recent studies found that steel was vastly superior in downhill speed and major manufacturers were poised to shift the majority of their production to steel. No amount of pedaling could overcome this advantage.
John
John
The more likely reason that steel frames effectively disappeared from the part of the market served by bike shops is simple: aluminum frames cost no more to produce than high-tensile steel frames and substantially less than frames built of better steels. That's a product manager's no-brainer. And now aluminum bikes are slowly being supplanted by carbon bikes at increasingly lower price points.
Another likely factor: warranty costs. The lifetime frame and fork warranty that used to be offered on all steel adult bikes sold in U.S. bike stores (a policy that was introduced by Schwinn as a marketing strategy many decades ago to promote the superior durability of their frames, forcing other companies reluctantly to follow suit, but that's another story) began to be rolled back; as other and more exotic frame materials came to be accepted by bike purchasers, the companies must have figured that it was a golden opportunity to change that policy.
Which reminds me of what I was told by a Trek sales rep back a couple of years after they'd begun producing their first aluminum frames. I'd asked what effect introducing the aluminum bikes had had on business. He replied that they were saving money because the number of warranty claims for defective aluminum frames was substantially lower than the steel frame warranty claim rate.
By the way, about descending on steel frames: a few years ago, a European cycling magazine rounded up several steel racing bikes from the golden era of the late '80s or early '90s and persuaded several young amateur racers, all of them used to racing on high-end carbon bikes, to ride in the Alps on the steel bikes and then printed an article reporting their impressions of the bikes. In short, all of them enjoyed riding the bikes, but they also said that the bikes were a little too unpredictable in high-speed descending. I feel the same way; the increased torsional rigidity is one of the reasons I prefer my aluminum bikes. In fact, I haven't ridden any of my steel bikes in years.
Last edited by Trakhak; 09-23-20 at 03:46 PM.
Likes For Trakhak:
#9
Hear myself getting fat
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 755
Bikes: Sir Velo A Sparrow
Liked 266 Times
in
135 Posts
Zoom! Just remember not to drink out of those bottles.
#10
Senior Member
I wouldn't say it's out of favour, in fact one could argue that steel is the first choice of many low-production and boutique brands of bikes.
I currently ride a steel framed Norco Search S1 from 2015. While Norco makes way more carbon and aluminum frames, they're still producing steel framed bikes; https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/roa...el/section-s2/
Almost all Rivendell bikes are steel.
Same with Surly bikes.
I currently ride a steel framed Norco Search S1 from 2015. While Norco makes way more carbon and aluminum frames, they're still producing steel framed bikes; https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/roa...el/section-s2/
Almost all Rivendell bikes are steel.
Same with Surly bikes.
But you can make a steel frame in a shed with basic tools (and a bit of practice and knowledge that you can easily pick up). This is how a lot of custom builders got started.
Personally I also think it is the nicest material from a ride quality and aesthetic point of view.
#11
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,352
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,202 Times
in
6,777 Posts
Didn’t we just do this a couple of months ago!
Why, yes we did:
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ove-steel.html
Why, yes we did:
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ove-steel.html
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
#12
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,352
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,202 Times
in
6,777 Posts
Also, nobody's won a TdF on steel since Indurain. Why do you suppose that is?
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#13
Senior Member
Yawn.
Likes For Koyote:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,758
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Liked 1,429 Times
in
835 Posts
I'm a recreational rider. My steel GURU weighs 17 lbs. 10 oz. My CAAD 12 weighs about the same. I love them both. I'm good. And...I'm pretty sure I'm not about to be picked up by a TdF team anytime soon.
Likes For bruce19:
#15
I spent several weeks drooling over some steel bikes before buying the steel hotness of a Twin Six Standard Rando.
Standard_Rando_ExtraBlack_studio_2 by TWIN SIX, on Flickr
only one aluminum bike briefly crossed my mind.
Standard_Rando_ExtraBlack_studio_2 by TWIN SIX, on Flickr
only one aluminum bike briefly crossed my mind.
#16
Junior Member
Grant Petersen, is that you?
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
#17
Le Crocodile
I'm struggling to make sense of those three sentences. What trade wars? How did they pertain to the near-disappearance of steel frames from the marketplace? What studies? Has anyone else come across such reports of steel bikes being "vastly superior in downhill speed" (not solely because of increased weight, presumably)? What evidence is there that "major manufacturers were poised to shift the majority of their production to steel"?
The more likely reason that steel frames effectively disappeared from the part of the market served by bike shops is simple: aluminum frames cost no more to produce than high-tensile steel frames and substantially less than frames built of better steels. That's a product manager's no-brainer. And now aluminum bikes are slowly being supplanted by carbon bikes at increasingly lower price points.
Another likely factor: warranty costs. The lifetime frame and fork warranty that used to be offered on all steel adult bikes sold in U.S. bike stores (a policy that was introduced by Schwinn as a marketing strategy many decades ago to promote the superior durability of their frames, forcing other companies reluctantly to follow suit, but that's another story) began to be rolled back; as other and more exotic frame materials came to be accepted by bike purchasers, the companies must have figured that it was a golden opportunity to change that policy.
Which reminds me of what I was told by a Trek sales rep back a couple of years after they'd begun producing their first aluminum frames. I'd asked what effect introducing the aluminum bikes had had on business. He replied that they were saving money because the number of warranty claims for defective aluminum frames was substantially lower than the steel frame warranty claim rate.
By the way, about descending on steel frames: a few years ago, a European cycling magazine rounded up several steel racing bikes from the golden era of the late '80s or early '90s and persuaded several young amateur racers, all of them used to racing on high-end carbon bikes, to ride in the Alps on the steel bikes and then printed an article reporting their impressions of the bikes. In short, all of them enjoyed riding the bikes, but they also said that the bikes were a little too unpredictable in high-speed descending. I feel the same way; the increased torsional rigidity is one of the reasons I prefer my aluminum bikes. In fact, I haven't ridden any of my steel bikes in years.
The more likely reason that steel frames effectively disappeared from the part of the market served by bike shops is simple: aluminum frames cost no more to produce than high-tensile steel frames and substantially less than frames built of better steels. That's a product manager's no-brainer. And now aluminum bikes are slowly being supplanted by carbon bikes at increasingly lower price points.
Another likely factor: warranty costs. The lifetime frame and fork warranty that used to be offered on all steel adult bikes sold in U.S. bike stores (a policy that was introduced by Schwinn as a marketing strategy many decades ago to promote the superior durability of their frames, forcing other companies reluctantly to follow suit, but that's another story) began to be rolled back; as other and more exotic frame materials came to be accepted by bike purchasers, the companies must have figured that it was a golden opportunity to change that policy.
Which reminds me of what I was told by a Trek sales rep back a couple of years after they'd begun producing their first aluminum frames. I'd asked what effect introducing the aluminum bikes had had on business. He replied that they were saving money because the number of warranty claims for defective aluminum frames was substantially lower than the steel frame warranty claim rate.
By the way, about descending on steel frames: a few years ago, a European cycling magazine rounded up several steel racing bikes from the golden era of the late '80s or early '90s and persuaded several young amateur racers, all of them used to racing on high-end carbon bikes, to ride in the Alps on the steel bikes and then printed an article reporting their impressions of the bikes. In short, all of them enjoyed riding the bikes, but they also said that the bikes were a little too unpredictable in high-speed descending. I feel the same way; the increased torsional rigidity is one of the reasons I prefer my aluminum bikes. In fact, I haven't ridden any of my steel bikes in years.
#18
Right? I'm sort of coveting this All City model; https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion_force_1
I look at this one on a daily basis.
https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/zig_zag_ultegra
Last edited by Mulberry20; 09-23-20 at 05:20 PM.
Likes For Point:
#20
Grant Petersen, is that you?
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,193
Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er
Liked 2,059 Times
in
987 Posts
I'm just a recreational rider, but after riding my first decent steel bike for several months, I will never buy another carbon bike.
#23
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,352
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,202 Times
in
6,777 Posts
Because the bike manufacturers supply the bikes to the pro teams as part of their marketing strategy? If Trek or Specialized wanted to bring back steel bikes to the masses, they could R+D awesome steel bikes better than carbon that we would first see on the world tours.
I'm just a recreational rider, but after riding my first decent steel bike for several months, I will never buy another carbon bike.
I'm just a recreational rider, but after riding my first decent steel bike for several months, I will never buy another carbon bike.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles