Why no major German bikes?
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It seems like most of the major European countries have some sort of bicycling tradition: France, Italy, England, Spain, the Netherlands. It's strange to me that there's no bike maker or bike style associated with Germany, especially
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
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If they are state side based, why would the company want me to ship my device to an international address for warranty purposes? I'm asking as I would expect it to make more sense to just ship it across some states.
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If they’ve got servicing and manufacturing overseas, why would you ship it to Atlanta?
#56
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found this:
https://www.derby-cycle.com/en/company/
Derby cycles claims to be the largest German bike maker. While they make Focus and Kalkhoff, they also own Raleigh and what's left of the Univega brand.
Apparenty, Peugeot sells well in Germany, but Peugeot is now owned by a Swedish company. It's a bit like Land Rover and Jaguar now being Indian companies. Specialized and Trek
are American companies, yet they're mostly from China. It seems to be one of the consequences of globalization.
https://www.derby-cycle.com/en/company/
Derby cycles claims to be the largest German bike maker. While they make Focus and Kalkhoff, they also own Raleigh and what's left of the Univega brand.
Apparenty, Peugeot sells well in Germany, but Peugeot is now owned by a Swedish company. It's a bit like Land Rover and Jaguar now being Indian companies. Specialized and Trek
are American companies, yet they're mostly from China. It seems to be one of the consequences of globalization.
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Well, it’s the consequence of human activity; we’ve been globalized at least since Roman times. Consider the Dutch East India company, for example. Dutch, but did its business in Asia for 200 years. Or the Hudson’s Bay Company, English, but did its 200 years of business in North America.
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I don’t know anything about their servicing arrangement, so my point was merely that if one needs servicing, you it makes sense to send it to wherever the servicing is done, regardless if that location is the same as HQ or not.
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Your theory would seem to depend on Britain, France, Italy, Austria and Japan not being devastated during WWII.
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Anyway, it’s a complex topic which you might have fun learning about.
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Canyon, Focus etc are all pretty recent.
If you go back 30y or so Italy had Pinarellos and Colnagos and all sorts of cool stuff, France Peugeot of course, and loads of British and Dutch brands making every type of bike.
But when I think of Germany only one name springs to mind from that era: Kalkhoff. Associated with very sturdy upright bikes that were considered well-made but heavy. Either they didn't have much in the way of racing bikes or they kept quiet about it and didn't export them or market them much.
If you go back 30y or so Italy had Pinarellos and Colnagos and all sorts of cool stuff, France Peugeot of course, and loads of British and Dutch brands making every type of bike.
But when I think of Germany only one name springs to mind from that era: Kalkhoff. Associated with very sturdy upright bikes that were considered well-made but heavy. Either they didn't have much in the way of racing bikes or they kept quiet about it and didn't export them or market them much.
#63
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Still doesn't explain why there are no well-known German framebuilders from back then. There are well-known names from before WW1 from France, Italy, and England -- Atala, Bianchi, Legnano, Peugeot, Raleigh, Stella etc -- but I can't think of any German ones. Interwar there were Helyett, Gitane, Motobecane, Mercier, Bottechia, Benotto, Gloria (not so well known now, though ex-employee Ernesto Colnago is). Germany had massive reparations to pay, but that didn't stop MZ and BMW from producing leading edge motorcycles or Mercedes Benz and Auto Union from making immensely powerful (and expensive) automobiles. Postwar there were Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, Pinarello, etc etc.at a time when Germany's Mercedes Benz and BMW and MAN picked up where they left off. But not until recently did we get the likes of Canyon and Focus.
I think that indoor cycling was relatively more popular (6-day, track, those weird things like artistic and Radball). Why that is is a different question.
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I recently did a build for a guy who wanted every component possible to be of German origin. He had inherited the bike from his father in law, and evidently he inherited a bunch of cash too, because cost was no object.
The parts list included, a Rohloff hub, SON dynohub, Magura brakes, Busch and Muller lighting, and Schwalbe tires. Had to go North American for crank and rims (Race Face and Velocity) due to availability, but he would have preferred those to be German as well.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, Connex chain.
The parts list included, a Rohloff hub, SON dynohub, Magura brakes, Busch and Muller lighting, and Schwalbe tires. Had to go North American for crank and rims (Race Face and Velocity) due to availability, but he would have preferred those to be German as well.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, Connex chain.
No they don't slouch. I doubt they actually physically slouch either they also know how to work and not work which is nice. I would love to get a job at ABUS in Germany it seems they know how to treat employees well and get the job done and have mandatory vacation time so employees can be with friends and family and not be so damned stressed all the time. Also they have foosball and are pretty serious about that. The U.S. office also has it to practice. I suck but I had fun doing it. I could also get a Birdy which you cannot get anymore in the U.S. not that I need a folding bike or would want one with an odd size but it looks like a cool bike to have in the back of the car. Put a Rohloff with belt drive and you get a fun machine.
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Still doesn't explain why there are no well-known German framebuilders from back then. There are well-known names from before WW1 from France, Italy, and England -- Atala, Bianchi, Legnano, Peugeot, Raleigh, Stella etc -- but I can't think of any German ones. Interwar there were Helyett, Gitane, Motobecane, Mercier, Bottechia, Benotto, Gloria (not so well known now, though ex-employee Ernesto Colnago is). Germany had massive reparations to pay, but that didn't stop MZ and BMW from producing leading edge motorcycles or Mercedes Benz and Auto Union from making immensely powerful (and expensive) automobiles. Postwar there were Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, Pinarello, etc etc.at a time when Germany's Mercedes Benz and BMW and MAN picked up where they left off. But not until recently did we get the likes of Canyon and Focus.
I think that indoor cycling was relatively more popular (6-day, track, those weird things like artistic and Radball). Why that is is a different question.
I think that indoor cycling was relatively more popular (6-day, track, those weird things like artistic and Radball). Why that is is a different question.
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I wasn’t attempting to cut pre-WW2 ice, which no one is talking about anyway. If you’d like to share your insights on pre-WW2 Germany’s bike industry, please do.
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Output - never considered that a benefit - Does volume output make for a better bicycle ride?
Also some German artisan producers from the past.
Hugo Rickert, 1959-ish, sloping top tube, endurance geometry, lightweight tourer.
Still a project. but will be ready soon.
Spring is coming to a Northern clime near me.
Or turn the dropout adjusters, skinny tires and have an all-day racer.
Also some German artisan producers from the past.
Hugo Rickert, 1959-ish, sloping top tube, endurance geometry, lightweight tourer.
Still a project. but will be ready soon.
Spring is coming to a Northern clime near me.
Or turn the dropout adjusters, skinny tires and have an all-day racer.
Last edited by Wildwood; 03-03-21 at 08:03 PM.
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Further, German automotive manufacturing was not strong until, as I mentioned earlier, the Wirtschaftwunder period, and it was really only VW powering that sector until the ‘50s. For reference, consider that VW, as the largest W. German manufacturer in 1950, made ~90k cars, while US car production was ~58 million. Within the context of the Marshall Plan, which had among its primary goals making the German market amenable to US business, it’s easy to imagine how, as companies like Webasto—which today make auto parts and were in the bike parts business from at least 1914 to 1955– mention in their history, that it was simply unprofitable to be in the bike biz in 1955, because of economic factors favoring auto industry. Were materials shortages and cost inflation of steel from allocation and preference to heavy industry and infrastructure rebuilding in preceeding years part of that lack of profitability in the bike sector? I’m no expert, but it certainly seems extremely likely.
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Come on guys.
Admit it.
We just don't get around much if German engineering doesn't appeal to us in some sensory way.
Fast cars with good power designed for stable speed, fast roads on which to drive them.
I've always admired a well made German frame myself.
Kalkhoff, model and vintage unknown, but well over 18years.
Admit it.
We just don't get around much if German engineering doesn't appeal to us in some sensory way.
Fast cars with good power designed for stable speed, fast roads on which to drive them.
I've always admired a well made German frame myself.
Kalkhoff, model and vintage unknown, but well over 18years.
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Last edited by Wildwood; 03-06-21 at 10:42 AM.
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And just across the German border there's Puch/AustroDaimler
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It seems like most of the major European countries have some sort of bicycling tradition: France, Italy, England, Spain, the Netherlands. It's strange to me that there's no bike maker or bike style associated with Germany, especially
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
since virtually any other sort of high end manufacturing would include at least one German brand name. Am I simply missing something or is there a reason? Of course, Bosch and Brose make a large percentage of e-bike motors, but even
then they don't brand their own bikes.
Canyon, Cube, Focus are all German.
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This has to do with the bicycle sport as such in the respective countries. If you look at the history of the sport, in movie documentaries, magazines, newspaper coverage of races, Germany simply doesn't figure.
I recall that in one of the last few TDF races, there was some talk about German riders, if they are successful, it might lead to having their own country team with German sponsor(s), which I take it, they don't have and didn't so far. It all has to do with overall German population enthusiasm for the bike sport.
Sure, some stellar performance of German riders in European races, best on home turf in Germany might or would lead to some rise of bicycling sport there, but all the same, it is doubtful that sporting base of a country could rest on such successes that of necessity come and go, are fleeting. In Italy, France, even if their riders sometimes don't figure in front positions too often, or even for extended period, it doesn't affect the general public enthusiasm for the sport. They are taken by the suffering, the heroism, no matter if the riders are not wining, they have respect for them all. It is simply not like that in Germany.
I recall that in one of the last few TDF races, there was some talk about German riders, if they are successful, it might lead to having their own country team with German sponsor(s), which I take it, they don't have and didn't so far. It all has to do with overall German population enthusiasm for the bike sport.
Sure, some stellar performance of German riders in European races, best on home turf in Germany might or would lead to some rise of bicycling sport there, but all the same, it is doubtful that sporting base of a country could rest on such successes that of necessity come and go, are fleeting. In Italy, France, even if their riders sometimes don't figure in front positions too often, or even for extended period, it doesn't affect the general public enthusiasm for the sport. They are taken by the suffering, the heroism, no matter if the riders are not wining, they have respect for them all. It is simply not like that in Germany.
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Not at all true.
There are currently 12 pro cycling teams based in Germany (and have been many others over many years), including current World Tour teams Bora-Hansgrohe and Team DSM. There are currently 34 German riders on World Tour teams, including notable names like Andre Greipel, Tony Martin, and John Degenkolb. Jan Ulrich won the Tour de France while riding for Telekom - German rider on a German team.
There are currently 12 pro cycling teams based in Germany (and have been many others over many years), including current World Tour teams Bora-Hansgrohe and Team DSM. There are currently 34 German riders on World Tour teams, including notable names like Andre Greipel, Tony Martin, and John Degenkolb. Jan Ulrich won the Tour de France while riding for Telekom - German rider on a German team.
Prague also might host opening TDF stage one day like Germany did several times in past but that is about as far as it may go.
That the thread like this one was made in the first place is indicative of the general perception and it wouldn't exist if things were 'ALL RIGHT' in this direction as your reply would seem to indicate. When you say Italy, you can say in second breath Campagnolo bikes, Ferrari cars, when you say Germany, you can say Mercedes but you can't cite an iconic bike manufacture. And that is what this is about.
Last edited by vane171; 03-04-21 at 12:19 PM.