Help servicing loose headset bearings
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Help servicing loose headset bearings
Working on kids 24" Kona Hula MTB, has a threadless headset. I removed the upper and lower cups so that I could get to the bearings, and they were quite nasty. The headset has loose bearings that are not in a retainer clip of any kind. Cleaned, repacked and reinstalled, however the steering feels quite crunchy still. I'm a bit of a headset n00b - but fairly mechanical otherwise. The bearings seemed like they were in fine shape, other than old grease - so wondering why the crunchy feel. Looking for ideas on what I maybe did wrong ... Did I not pack enough grease in the races? Did I put too much preload on the starnut? I don't have a cup press - so when I reinstalled the cups - I just whacked them on as evenly as I could with a deadblow and a block of wood - possible some slight mis-alignment in the cups?
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A few thoughts- First is that you have the preload adjustment too tight. Second is that you have a ball to many in either stack. Third is that the cup and cone tracks are worn/pitted. Andy
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I don’t need a new headset at the moment, but the prospect of being able to use a sealed cartridge in an existing loose ball headset would be a revelation for thousands who are limping a pitted/indexed headset along for a bit longer. Especially where stack height is in the mid 30’s.
John
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So where did you find this for $10?
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ZTTO stuff is sold on eBay. It’ll probably be a bit more than $10, but still cheap.
For a 1-1/8” threadless fork, it will be an easier way to go than fiddling with a headset that has damaged races.
John
For a 1-1/8” threadless fork, it will be an easier way to go than fiddling with a headset that has damaged races.
John
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Replacing a headset is a very different proposition than replacing a bearing. It’s a lot more work.
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Working on kids 24" Kona Hula MTB, has a threadless headset. I removed the upper and lower cups so that I could get to the bearings, and they were quite nasty. The headset has loose bearings that are not in a retainer clip of any kind. Cleaned, repacked and reinstalled, however the steering feels quite crunchy still. I'm a bit of a headset n00b - but fairly mechanical otherwise. The bearings seemed like they were in fine shape, other than old grease - so wondering why the crunchy feel. Looking for ideas on what I maybe did wrong ... Did I not pack enough grease in the races? Did I put too much preload on the starnut?
Another thing to check is the number of bearings used. When you pack loose bearings, there should be space for what looks like one more bearing but you really can’t fit it in.
I don't have a cup press - so when I reinstalled the cups - I just whacked them on as evenly as I could with a deadblow and a block of wood - possible some slight mis-alignment in the cups?
You can install a headset the way you have but you are correct that you may not have the cups square. If you rotate the fork and you feel it bind in one (or more spots) while being free in others, you may have cups that are misaligned.
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Too much preload is likely the issue. You only want the headset tight enough so that it doesn’t move forward and backward when you pull on the forks. This is often checked by putting the bike on the ground, pulling the brakes, and rocking the bike back and forth. But it should also be loose enough that the fork turns easily from side to side.
Another thing to check is the number of bearings used. When you pack loose bearings, there should be space for what looks like one more bearing but you really can’t fit it in.
Wait! What?! If you are packing the bearings you do not need to remove the cups! Just remove the bearings. The cups don’t need to come out unless you are installing a new headset. Don’t make more work for yourself.
You can install a headset the way you have but you are correct that you may not have the cups square. If you rotate the fork and you feel it bind in one (or more spots) while being free in others, you may have cups that are misaligned.
Another thing to check is the number of bearings used. When you pack loose bearings, there should be space for what looks like one more bearing but you really can’t fit it in.
Wait! What?! If you are packing the bearings you do not need to remove the cups! Just remove the bearings. The cups don’t need to come out unless you are installing a new headset. Don’t make more work for yourself.
You can install a headset the way you have but you are correct that you may not have the cups square. If you rotate the fork and you feel it bind in one (or more spots) while being free in others, you may have cups that are misaligned.
number of bearings seems right felt like one missing in each race set.
I just adjusted the preload and it feels much better but I can still feel a slight vibration. Will inspect races when I have more time.
appreciate the super knowledgeable feedback!!
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If you "just whacked the cups in" you probably got them cocked / not in perfect alignment.
what you can do is get a piece of threaded rod in 3/8" and some nuts and big washers, and make a press that will fully seat the cups.
use some wood blocks under the washers and tighten the nuts so as to fully seat the cups
when doing the final adjustment - put it all back together and lock the front brake, wiggle it back and forth till the play is gone, and the tighten the clamp bolts on the steerer.
/markp
what you can do is get a piece of threaded rod in 3/8" and some nuts and big washers, and make a press that will fully seat the cups.
use some wood blocks under the washers and tighten the nuts so as to fully seat the cups
when doing the final adjustment - put it all back together and lock the front brake, wiggle it back and forth till the play is gone, and the tighten the clamp bolts on the steerer.
/markp
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Ordered a set from AliExpress for $10.99. No urgency to replace - as the current bearings are fine for now, and I can handle 4 weeks of shipping for $0.44. Fork is a 1-1/8" straight tube spinner grind - so looks like the ZTTO 3434S is the right option for me.
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If you "just whacked the cups in" you probably got them cocked / not in perfect alignment.
what you can do is get a piece of threaded rod in 3/8" and some nuts and big washers, and make a press that will fully seat the cups.
use some wood blocks under the washers and tighten the nuts so as to fully seat the cups
when doing the final adjustment - put it all back together and lock the front brake, wiggle it back and forth till the play is gone, and the tighten the clamp bolts on the steerer.
/markp
what you can do is get a piece of threaded rod in 3/8" and some nuts and big washers, and make a press that will fully seat the cups.
use some wood blocks under the washers and tighten the nuts so as to fully seat the cups
when doing the final adjustment - put it all back together and lock the front brake, wiggle it back and forth till the play is gone, and the tighten the clamp bolts on the steerer.
/markp
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@cubewheels - It is a much older generation Hulu. I tried to post a picture, but haven't hit 10-posts yet. The headset tube is straight with no flare and the OD of the tube is 41mm. Am I right that the 3434S is a 34mm width on the OD of the friction-fit part of the cup? Which would be about the ID of the tube. A 34mm therefore would allow about 3.5mm of wall thickness and seem about right, where the 4444S would be a 44m OD which seems wider than the tube itself?
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The Kona Hula looks like it could be a 4444S to me but I could be wrong (the head tube looks it's for the 44mm bearing cups). 4444S will also fit a 1-1/8" straight tube. You need to make sure.
The Kona Hula if that is your bike below is a threadless headset. You'll need to remove the bottom cup if you can and measure the cup based on the drawing below:
The Kona Hula if that is your bike below is a threadless headset. You'll need to remove the bottom cup if you can and measure the cup based on the drawing below:
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cyccommute - it's an older gen than the one shown - link is here (with http part removed so I can post it): konaworld.com/archive/2016/hula.cfm
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cyccommute - it's an older gen than the one shown - link is here (with http part removed so I can post it): konaworld.com/archive/2016/hula.cfm
For the install, look at “DIY headset press” on-line. You can make one from althread or you can buy this one from Amazon. At less than $30, that one is a bargain and it doesn’t press on the bearing. If nothing else, buying it for the cup install tools would be worth the price. Look at RJ The Bike Guy videos for on making a tool to remove the cups.
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New headset came and installed today. Went in easy and feels much smoother. Only weird thing was that the new crown race included in the kit had a split in it. Made installing on the fork much easier than a normal race - but felt weird to have a split in it. Didn’t seem to affect operation. Anything to be concerned about? Use the old crown race instead?
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New headset came and installed today. Went in easy and feels much smoother. Only weird thing was that the new crown race included in the kit had a split in it. Made installing on the fork much easier than a normal race - but felt weird to have a split in it. Didn’t seem to affect operation. Anything to be concerned about? Use the old crown race instead?