Melting wax
#76
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Very interesting!
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#77
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Thanks, everyone, for the input.
Re-waxed chain hanging and cooling right now. Again, with Molten Speed Wax brand already pre-infused with additives, I held off adding more; I hope that's not a mistake.
After some 100's of miles, always in the dry but once in a while unable to avoid a puddle, the chain did not look like it needed anything; indeed, I wiped it down with a microfiber cloth and not much dirt transferred to the cloth. If/when I build an all-weather bike, I suspect I'll see at least some additional soiling of the chain. The freewheel looks nice on the teeth, but on non-chain-contact surfaces I see what I suspect are deposited tiny particles of wax, it looks almost like dust.
I liked the idea of pre-heating the chain along with the wax, so both went in the saucepan. That and the "hot plate" went to the porch, which is at 100F ambient today so melting the wax had a "head start". Turned the hot plate on to Medium, checked it after 10 minutes, getting there but not yet. Checked again at the 15 minute mark, already at 207F Hopefully did cause any issues due to "heating too fast" and, of course, next time I'll try the Low setting first. Once it cools, and the usual stiffness-breaking (I'll use a broom handle or something, I forget what I used earlier), ready for an install and test ride (much cooler weather coming fortunately); having lost about 2 weeks due to illness, I really miss riding.
Re-waxed chain hanging and cooling right now. Again, with Molten Speed Wax brand already pre-infused with additives, I held off adding more; I hope that's not a mistake.
After some 100's of miles, always in the dry but once in a while unable to avoid a puddle, the chain did not look like it needed anything; indeed, I wiped it down with a microfiber cloth and not much dirt transferred to the cloth. If/when I build an all-weather bike, I suspect I'll see at least some additional soiling of the chain. The freewheel looks nice on the teeth, but on non-chain-contact surfaces I see what I suspect are deposited tiny particles of wax, it looks almost like dust.
I liked the idea of pre-heating the chain along with the wax, so both went in the saucepan. That and the "hot plate" went to the porch, which is at 100F ambient today so melting the wax had a "head start". Turned the hot plate on to Medium, checked it after 10 minutes, getting there but not yet. Checked again at the 15 minute mark, already at 207F Hopefully did cause any issues due to "heating too fast" and, of course, next time I'll try the Low setting first. Once it cools, and the usual stiffness-breaking (I'll use a broom handle or something, I forget what I used earlier), ready for an install and test ride (much cooler weather coming fortunately); having lost about 2 weeks due to illness, I really miss riding.
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
#78
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By the way, it might be my imagination but I wonder if my drivetrain might be a bit noisier now, using the wax instead of oil. Hard to tell, my hearing is not the greatest. Perhaps the wax just does not deaden naturally-occurring noise. Anyway, got an e-mailed advertisement for dry ceramic lubricant and the ad mentions "silence noise". Hmm. Anyone try this stuff? And, if it's a dry powder, a possible additive to wax?
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
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My drivetrain is definitely 'louder' when I put a freshly waxed chain on, but it quiets down after a decent-length ride. I think most of the noise is from the stiff chain going through the cage. I do think a wet lube is a little bit quieter than wax, but really have no idea of the physics/chemistry behind that. It seems that additional noise might indicate additional 'resistance', but from the tests I've looked at, wax doesn't do any less of a job lubricating than wet/oil lube, so noise doesn't seem to actually correlate to additional resistance.
#80
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My drivetrain is definitely 'louder' when I put a freshly waxed chain on, but it quiets down after a decent-length ride. I think most of the noise is from the stiff chain going through the cage. I do think a wet lube is a little bit quieter than wax, but really have no idea of the physics/chemistry behind that. It seems that additional noise might indicate additional 'resistance', but from the tests I've looked at, wax doesn't do any less of a job lubricating than wet/oil lube, so noise doesn't seem to actually correlate to additional resistance.
I seem to recall, many years ago, that Phil Wood grease in hubs instead of more conventional products resulted in less sound deadening. Similar? Maybe.
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#81
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...emicals-cancer
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The worry is what it might do to your own longevity.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...emicals-cancer
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...emicals-cancer
#84
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Fluorinated organic compounds scare me. Canning wax (paraffin) is safe to eat, and by itself isn't an inhalation risk, and perhaps most importantly, I am lazy and a cheapskate, so I just use wax with no additives, and switch chains every 300 miles.
#85
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I put the chain in a plastic jar (now with a lid) with washing up liquid and water, and put it on my whole body vibration machine which seems to shake dust out.
Then use an electric pot outside.
Chain Cleaning by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr (but I will try to get a slow cooker instead)
Chain Waxing by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
I may add some PTFE powder. I used to use PTFE plus oil lubricants, and still use Teflon coated frying pans.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003942997447.html
It seems to be PFOA rather than PTFE that causes cancer.
https://www.cancercenter.com/communi...n-cause-cancer
I seem to notice a little more noise, and perhaps a little friction using wax than oil (without PTFE) perhaps because I have overheated my wax.
Then use an electric pot outside.
Chain Cleaning by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr (but I will try to get a slow cooker instead)
Chain Waxing by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
I may add some PTFE powder. I used to use PTFE plus oil lubricants, and still use Teflon coated frying pans.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003942997447.html
It seems to be PFOA rather than PTFE that causes cancer.
https://www.cancercenter.com/communi...n-cause-cancer
I seem to notice a little more noise, and perhaps a little friction using wax than oil (without PTFE) perhaps because I have overheated my wax.
Last edited by timtak; 08-10-22 at 07:33 PM.
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You use straight wax? IE nothing to reduce it's hardness?
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Yes. I use straight candle wax. I did add, part the way through my waxing adventure, some ptfe lubricant (ptfe plus light oil) to the wax but I did not notice a difference.
The wax a little feels hard for the first 1km but after that I don't notice that my chain is waxed not oiled, except that it has a very slightly increased noise, especially after a few days.
I have been waxing about every 300km.
I overheat my wax.
There is an electric saucepan with a knob for choosing the temperature at a local second hand shop and I am thinking of getting that.
I have ordered some PTFE from China. I wonder if it will come caked.
The wax a little feels hard for the first 1km but after that I don't notice that my chain is waxed not oiled, except that it has a very slightly increased noise, especially after a few days.
I have been waxing about every 300km.
I overheat my wax.
There is an electric saucepan with a knob for choosing the temperature at a local second hand shop and I am thinking of getting that.
I have ordered some PTFE from China. I wonder if it will come caked.
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From the research I did you want a paraffin wax with low oil content and no added stearin.
Here's what I use https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
Here's what I use https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...e?ie=UTF8&th=1
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I use a small crockpot I bought at goodwill for $5 and I use canning wax(paraffin). I read somewhere that in dry climates a rewax every 300 miles is advised. I probably wax mine every month or two depending on my riding habits, as I rotate between three bikes.
while it does take a bit to get the wax melted, it is easy. The biggest hurdle was degreasing the entire drive train. After that, it only takes 15 minutes or less to rinse the chain, soak, hang and check for tight links.
while it does take a bit to get the wax melted, it is easy. The biggest hurdle was degreasing the entire drive train. After that, it only takes 15 minutes or less to rinse the chain, soak, hang and check for tight links.
#91
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But at the same time, while some candles are made out of other types of wax such as beeswax and soy wax, I am under the impression that the cheap 100 yen shop candles that I am using are made out of paraffin wax. I thought that they might contain stearin (which may be waste meat and vegetable wax but I am not sure) but hey are sold as altar candles and the manufacturer and they manufacturer says that paraffin wax is the "main ingredient." Since they are used on Buddhist altars, I think that meat based wax is very unlikely to be used but their might be some vegetable wax in there. I have contacted the company.
Paraffin wax is used to make candles, but other waxes may be used
I see I can get paraffin wax for making candles from Amazon Japan for almost exactly the same price.
I find that there is a tendency (perhaps due to the importance of safety, and other reasons) for cyclists to use 'the right thing' on their bicycles. I don't know why, iconoclasm perhaps, but I like to codge/botch/bricole things together out of what I have to hand. Plus I like the idea of having altar wax on my chain.
Last edited by timtak; 08-11-22 at 04:39 PM.
#92
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This site says 5g of PTFE and 1g of MoS2 per 1 lb of paraffin:
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/frict...-lube-formula/
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/frict...-lube-formula/
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004602430865.html
Or you could just buy a bag of Molten Speed Wax or Silca Secret Chain Blend that have years of research behind their formulations and will last you through many waxings, no frother needed. Note that ZFC has several warnings regarding poorly performing DIY waxes, i.e. https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-FAQ-v1.3b.pdf
The Silca Secret Chain Blend contains tungsten disulphide.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004362574239.html
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The molybdenum disulfide powder arrived. I bought 50g of the cheapest I could find at 1-2um
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004610608795.html
It feels like super graphite between my fingers (you are not meant to get it on your fingers!).
The toxicity is apparently low but it is best to wear gloves and use it outside apparently.
https://n.b5z.net/i/u/10091461/f/MSD...ERS/US2180.pdf
Even at the 1-2um size (the largest powder I could see) it is so fine it seems to sublimate, like dry ice, into a gas or molybdenum smoke. I recommend the use of a mask.
I put a screwdriver tip scoop (<1g) of it into about 50grams of candle wax.
I thought it would make my handling my chain dirty, and the appearance of my chain is darker, but the wax traps the powder which did not come off on my hands.
Chain Lubed with Molybdenum Disulphide by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
My chain felt noticeably smoother, like a freshly cleaned and oiled chain at the very least.
I have also purchased a slow cooker so as not to damage the wax but it takes about 20 minutes on the high setting to melt the wax so I will probably keep using my standard electric cooker pot thing more often.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004610608795.html
It feels like super graphite between my fingers (you are not meant to get it on your fingers!).
The toxicity is apparently low but it is best to wear gloves and use it outside apparently.
https://n.b5z.net/i/u/10091461/f/MSD...ERS/US2180.pdf
Even at the 1-2um size (the largest powder I could see) it is so fine it seems to sublimate, like dry ice, into a gas or molybdenum smoke. I recommend the use of a mask.
I put a screwdriver tip scoop (<1g) of it into about 50grams of candle wax.
I thought it would make my handling my chain dirty, and the appearance of my chain is darker, but the wax traps the powder which did not come off on my hands.
Chain Lubed with Molybdenum Disulphide by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
My chain felt noticeably smoother, like a freshly cleaned and oiled chain at the very least.
I have also purchased a slow cooker so as not to damage the wax but it takes about 20 minutes on the high setting to melt the wax so I will probably keep using my standard electric cooker pot thing more often.
#94
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Previously, I simply swished new chains in Simple Green HP to get anything factory-supplied off prior to waxing; unsure if that has been really effective but I really have not had problems. I read about, and bought a bottle of Silca chain stripper and pre-wax treatment. Doing three chains this AM, I am immersing the Silca product in the ultrasonic cleaner, the bottle's contents just barely covers the chain. Max time on the machine is 6 minutes, I am doing 2 sessions per chain. Uh, not sure how I'll be able to tell the results objectively.
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Kinda seems like overkill to me to put the Silca chain stripper in the ultrasonic. I put it the chain in a small plastic container that frozen yogurt comes in, cover with the chain stripper, agitate for a minute and leave for five minutes per Slica's instructions, then rinse with water, hang to dry for a bit, then immerse in hot wax and watch all of the air bubbles fight their way to the surface as I stir. Leave it for 10 min or so, remove and hang on a hook to dry.
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I put it the chain in a small plastic container that frozen yogurt comes in, cover with the chain stripper, agitate for a minute and leave for five minutes per Slica's instructions, then rinse with water, hang to dry for a bit, then immerse in hot wax and watch all of the air bubbles fight their way to the surface as I stir. Leave it for 10 min or so, remove and hang on a hook to dry.
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I wonder if one can use ski wax on chains. One would think that it may stay on the chain better than candle wax....
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Hmm... pine tar on your chain anyone? No problem with adhesion there.
Brent
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Chains..
Thank you. I was completely unaware of the difference.
But at the same time, while some candles are made out of other types of wax such as beeswax and soy wax, I am under the impression that the cheap 100 yen shop candles that I am using are made out of paraffin wax. I thought that they might contain stearin (which may be waste meat and vegetable wax but I am not sure) but hey are sold as altar candles and the manufacturer and they manufacturer says that paraffin wax is the "main ingredient." Since they are used on Buddhist altars, I think that meat based wax is very unlikely to be used but their might be some vegetable wax in there. I have contacted the company.
I be a liI may be hijacking ttle
Paraffin wax is used to make candles, but other waxes may be used
I see I can get paraffin wax for making candles from Amazon Japan for almost exactly the same price.
I find that there is a tendency (perhaps due to the importance of safety, and other reasons) for cyclists to use 'the right thing' on their bicycles. I don't know why, iconoclasm perhaps, but I like to codge/botch/bricole things together out of what I have to hand. Plus I like the idea of having altar wax on my chain.
But at the same time, while some candles are made out of other types of wax such as beeswax and soy wax, I am under the impression that the cheap 100 yen shop candles that I am using are made out of paraffin wax. I thought that they might contain stearin (which may be waste meat and vegetable wax but I am not sure) but hey are sold as altar candles and the manufacturer and they manufacturer says that paraffin wax is the "main ingredient." Since they are used on Buddhist altars, I think that meat based wax is very unlikely to be used but their might be some vegetable wax in there. I have contacted the company.
I be a liI may be hijacking ttle
Paraffin wax is used to make candles, but other waxes may be used
I see I can get paraffin wax for making candles from Amazon Japan for almost exactly the same price.
I find that there is a tendency (perhaps due to the importance of safety, and other reasons) for cyclists to use 'the right thing' on their bicycles. I don't know why, iconoclasm perhaps, but I like to codge/botch/bricole things together out of what I have to hand. Plus I like the idea of having altar wax on my chain.
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Chains..
Thank you. I was completely unaware of the difference.
But at the same time, while some candles are made out of other types of wax such as beeswax and soy wax, I am under the impression that the cheap 100 yen shop candles that I am using are made out of paraffin wax. I thought that they might contain stearin (which may be waste meat and vegetable wax but I am not sure) but hey are sold as altar candles and the manufacturer and they manufacturer says that paraffin wax is the "main ingredient." Since they are used on Buddhist altars, I think that meat based wax is very unlikely to be used but their might be some vegetable wax in there. I have contacted the company.
I be a liI may be hijacking ttle
Paraffin wax is used to make candles, but other waxes may be used
I see I can get paraffin wax for making candles from Amazon Japan for almost exactly the same price.
I find that there is a tendency (perhaps due to the importance of safety, and other reasons) for cyclists to use 'the right thing' on their bicycles. I don't know why, iconoclasm perhaps, but I like to codge/botch/bricole things together out of what I have to hand. Plus I like the idea of having altar wax on my chain.
But at the same time, while some candles are made out of other types of wax such as beeswax and soy wax, I am under the impression that the cheap 100 yen shop candles that I am using are made out of paraffin wax. I thought that they might contain stearin (which may be waste meat and vegetable wax but I am not sure) but hey are sold as altar candles and the manufacturer and they manufacturer says that paraffin wax is the "main ingredient." Since they are used on Buddhist altars, I think that meat based wax is very unlikely to be used but their might be some vegetable wax in there. I have contacted the company.
I be a liI may be hijacking ttle
Paraffin wax is used to make candles, but other waxes may be used
I see I can get paraffin wax for making candles from Amazon Japan for almost exactly the same price.
I find that there is a tendency (perhaps due to the importance of safety, and other reasons) for cyclists to use 'the right thing' on their bicycles. I don't know why, iconoclasm perhaps, but I like to codge/botch/bricole things together out of what I have to hand. Plus I like the idea of having altar wax on my chain.