Zwift KOMs are Ridiculous
#1
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Zwift KOMs are Ridiculous
I just tried out Zwift yesterday, and the first thing I noticed: the KOMs appear to be ludicrous.
There's this Hilly KOM Forward on the default route.
Distance: 0.6 mi
Avg. Gradient: 5.5%
Max. Gradient: 8.2%
KOM elapsed time: 01:11
KOM speed: 28.4 mph
Absolutely ridiculous. I estimate that speed up that grade would require over 14 W/kg. The absolute best pros in the world can manage 11 W/kg for a minute.
What part of Zwift tech allows such nonsense?
There's this Hilly KOM Forward on the default route.
Distance: 0.6 mi
Avg. Gradient: 5.5%
Max. Gradient: 8.2%
KOM elapsed time: 01:11
KOM speed: 28.4 mph
Absolutely ridiculous. I estimate that speed up that grade would require over 14 W/kg. The absolute best pros in the world can manage 11 W/kg for a minute.
What part of Zwift tech allows such nonsense?
#2
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Geez, are there e-bikes on Zwift?
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#3
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I just tried out Zwift yesterday, and the first thing I noticed: the KOMs appear to be ludicrous.
There's this Hilly KOM Forward on the default route.
Distance: 0.6 mi
Avg. Gradient: 5.5%
Max. Gradient: 8.2%
KOM elapsed time: 01:11
KOM speed: 28.4 mph
Absolutely ridiculous. I estimate that speed up that grade would require over 14 W/kg. The absolute best pros in the world can manage 11 W/kg for a minute.
What part of Zwift tech allows such nonsense?
There's this Hilly KOM Forward on the default route.
Distance: 0.6 mi
Avg. Gradient: 5.5%
Max. Gradient: 8.2%
KOM elapsed time: 01:11
KOM speed: 28.4 mph
Absolutely ridiculous. I estimate that speed up that grade would require over 14 W/kg. The absolute best pros in the world can manage 11 W/kg for a minute.
What part of Zwift tech allows such nonsense?
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#4
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#5
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Zwift speeds are about 5MPH fast than IRL for similar efforts in my experience. Is for fun.
#6
Yeah I've noticed a lot of Zwift KOMs are messed up. I believe there was a bug that allowed ridiculous speeds on occasion, but never experienced it personally. Plus you also get the odd nerd hooking up a controller to dial in whatever power they like. I've seen a few of those motoring along, but not recently. I don't know why they don't just filter out obvious rogue times to clean it up. Not that I would ever get near a KOM on Zwift. Although I'm ahead of Lance Armstrong on the Radio Tower KOM, lol,
#7
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#8
Perceptual Dullard
A friend just tried this for, um, research purposes. Turns out not all e-bikes and not all trainers will work.
1. KOMs and sprints only count for those who are on course at that moment -- they don't stick around forever and ever. You can improve your chances of winning a KOM or a sprint if you go to a non-scheduled world at an oddball time of day. That said, sometimes you do run across implausible times.
2. I had a discussion with some Zwift people a few years ago about cheating on Zwift. This was way before they got into e-racing, but it was on their radar. I told them then that cheating is relatively easy, but non-detectable cheating is quite hard. Clever and motivated cheaters can make it harder to detect so that it would take a lot of effort to spot them. Fortunately, many cheaters aren't that clever. Now, several years later, I still think that most cheating is detectable but it would require a lot of effort to detect certain kinds of cheating, so Zwift only checks for "big" races. For just tootling around, it's very hard for them to do automated filtering unless the times are really egregious.
Yeah I've noticed a lot of Zwift KOMs are messed up. I believe there was a bug that allowed ridiculous speeds on occasion, but never experienced it personally. Plus you also get the odd nerd hooking up a controller to dial in whatever power they like. I've seen a few of those motoring along, but not recently. I don't know why they don't just filter out obvious rogue times to clean it up. Not that I would ever get near a KOM on Zwift. Although I'm ahead of Lance Armstrong on the Radio Tower KOM, lol,
2. I had a discussion with some Zwift people a few years ago about cheating on Zwift. This was way before they got into e-racing, but it was on their radar. I told them then that cheating is relatively easy, but non-detectable cheating is quite hard. Clever and motivated cheaters can make it harder to detect so that it would take a lot of effort to spot them. Fortunately, many cheaters aren't that clever. Now, several years later, I still think that most cheating is detectable but it would require a lot of effort to detect certain kinds of cheating, so Zwift only checks for "big" races. For just tootling around, it's very hard for them to do automated filtering unless the times are really egregious.
#10
Senior Member
I was riding on Zwift last year when my power meter suddenly started reading 2000 watts. I stopped pedaling and it went down to 0, but every time I started pedaling it went straight up to 2000 watts. Turns out my power meter's battery was dying.
I stopped riding once I realized there was a problem, but the ride had recorded maybe 5-10 seconds of 0 to 2000 watts. Someone riding near me in the game called me out for cheating (I was just free-riding, not in a race or anything) which I thought was hilarious. I'm guessing that person reported me to Zwift because I also got a message from them that they had flagged the ride due to "suspicious data" and told me it wouldn't count towards segments/KOM's/etc while they "investigated". I deleted the ride, but because my peak power on Zwift was like 800 watts prior to that, I unlocked 4 new badges for hitting the higher numbers, which still show up in my profile.
Anyway, if you want to cheat on Zwift, just lie about your weight.
I stopped riding once I realized there was a problem, but the ride had recorded maybe 5-10 seconds of 0 to 2000 watts. Someone riding near me in the game called me out for cheating (I was just free-riding, not in a race or anything) which I thought was hilarious. I'm guessing that person reported me to Zwift because I also got a message from them that they had flagged the ride due to "suspicious data" and told me it wouldn't count towards segments/KOM's/etc while they "investigated". I deleted the ride, but because my peak power on Zwift was like 800 watts prior to that, I unlocked 4 new badges for hitting the higher numbers, which still show up in my profile.
Anyway, if you want to cheat on Zwift, just lie about your weight.
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#11
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I was riding on Zwift last year when my power meter suddenly started reading 2000 watts. I stopped pedaling and it went down to 0, but every time I started pedaling it went straight up to 2000 watts. Turns out my power meter's battery was dying.
I stopped riding once I realized there was a problem, but the ride had recorded maybe 5-10 seconds of 0 to 2000 watts. Someone riding near me in the game called me out for cheating (I was just free-riding, not in a race or anything) which I thought was hilarious. I'm guessing that person reported me to Zwift because I also got a message from them that they had flagged the ride due to "suspicious data" and told me it wouldn't count towards segments/KOM's/etc while they "investigated". I deleted the ride, but because my peak power on Zwift was like 800 watts prior to that, I unlocked 4 new badges for hitting the higher numbers, which still show up in my profile.
Anyway, if you want to cheat on Zwift, just lie about your weight.
I stopped riding once I realized there was a problem, but the ride had recorded maybe 5-10 seconds of 0 to 2000 watts. Someone riding near me in the game called me out for cheating (I was just free-riding, not in a race or anything) which I thought was hilarious. I'm guessing that person reported me to Zwift because I also got a message from them that they had flagged the ride due to "suspicious data" and told me it wouldn't count towards segments/KOM's/etc while they "investigated". I deleted the ride, but because my peak power on Zwift was like 800 watts prior to that, I unlocked 4 new badges for hitting the higher numbers, which still show up in my profile.
Anyway, if you want to cheat on Zwift, just lie about your weight.
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"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
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#12
Senior Member
eBioPassport
2023-CAN-USA-Esports-Championships-Tech-Guide.pdf
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#14
Senior Member
Easy to dismiss I suppose, but the level of competition on Zwift is very high. USA Cycling has a team that just competed in the UCI Cycling Esports World Championships. For these racers who train and compete in races like this, it's very much reality.
#15
Senior Member
There are some legitimately great athletes riding in Zwift and then there are people who set their weight to 50 pounds. I know people who do this myself, it's pathetic.
#16
You can also adjust the resistance simulation setting. I think it defaults to 50%.
#17
Senior Member
How hard would it be to miscalibrate both power strain gages and the scale. Don't do anything crazy, maybe 10% less weight and 40% power converts cat 3 racer into UCI Pro.
Imagine the profits to be made from Zwift KoM wannabees
Imagine the profits to be made from Zwift KoM wannabees
#18
Senior Member
I find it amusing that anyone would take any sort of virtual bike 'racing' seriously.
#19
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https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...n-zwift-495955
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Last edited by rsbob; 03-06-23 at 09:55 PM.
#20
Perceptual Dullard
#21
Senior Member
Tell your pedal based power meter that you use 200 mm crank arms. That doesn't show up in Zwift anywhere. Don't think it's even transmitted to them. Same for changing the power offset. Or doing your spindown calibration with some extra resistance brushing the flywheel.
While I know there are some people cheating when I'm racing them, I also know there's nothing I can do about it so I pretend it doesn't happen because I push myself a lot harder when racing against people I pretend are honestly racing against me than when I'm doing a workout and trying to hold a specific number for a specific time period. Get to see the same people week in and week out when you do the same series over and over again and have a little friendly trash talking.
While I know there are some people cheating when I'm racing them, I also know there's nothing I can do about it so I pretend it doesn't happen because I push myself a lot harder when racing against people I pretend are honestly racing against me than when I'm doing a workout and trying to hold a specific number for a specific time period. Get to see the same people week in and week out when you do the same series over and over again and have a little friendly trash talking.
#22
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#23
Perceptual Dullard
These would be time-consuming to detect, but they're detectable.
#24
A friend just tried this for, um, research purposes. Turns out not all e-bikes and not all trainers will work.
1. KOMs and sprints only count for those who are on course at that moment -- they don't stick around forever and ever. You can improve your chances of winning a KOM or a sprint if you go to a non-scheduled world at an oddball time of day. That said, sometimes you do run across implausible times.
1. KOMs and sprints only count for those who are on course at that moment -- they don't stick around forever and ever. You can improve your chances of winning a KOM or a sprint if you go to a non-scheduled world at an oddball time of day. That said, sometimes you do run across implausible times.
Ah I see. I check them on Strava, where they do unfortunately stick around forever. Obviously nothing Strava can do about it. I'm not chasing KOMs myself, so it doesn't really matter as long as I can compare my own and friends best efforts, but I just noticed they were all messed up. All Zwift KOMs on Strava are basically junk.
#25
True, but it's still a big advantage to reduce the setting as you can more easily put down the power on downhills. I always use 100% setting for a more realistic sim, but it's definitely a disadvantage when racing. You can definitely tell the guys who have set it to zero by the way their power and cadence remains rock steady on rolling terrain etc.
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