aluminum vs. steel rims on 27" bikes, gyro forces etc..
05-18-23, 03:25 PM
#51
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,899
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3800 Post(s)
Liked 5,800 Times
in
2,932 Posts
Time to retrieve that old 12V truck battery from the shed, mount it on the rack. Great for training as well as traction.
05-18-23, 03:40 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,998
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26482 Post(s)
Liked 10,449 Times
in
7,248 Posts
Less than half a pound difference in wheel mass will make no significant difference in terms of braking inertia. If you spin a wheel up in a workstand and apply the brake it will stop dead instantly. There is very little wheel inertia, whether steel, alloy or carbon rims. The only significant inertia when braking on a bicycle is from your own bodyweight.
Likes For 3alarmer:
05-18-23, 03:49 PM
#53
Senior Member
There are a lot of alloys. If someone means 'aluminum' or 'aluminium', I wish they'd just write it that way.
Likes For philbob57:
05-18-23, 05:49 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,013
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3645 Post(s)
Liked 3,085 Times
in
1,858 Posts
05-18-23, 09:31 PM
#55
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,761
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11091 Post(s)
Liked 7,681 Times
in
4,279 Posts
In cycling, any steel alloys are called 'steel'. Any aluminum alloys are called 'alloy' or 'aluminum'. Any titanium alloys are called 'titanium'.
It's just reality for the hobby.
Likes For mstateglfr:
05-19-23, 05:20 AM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,835
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Liked 5,155 Times
in
3,185 Posts
It's the same in other similar applications e.g. alloy car wheels. Nobody ever refers to them as "aluminium" wheels (well at least not in the UK). "Alloy" is simply short hand for "Aluminium Alloy" in this kind of application. Nobody is going to think they are made of any other metal alloy. Maybe some other English speaking countries refer to them as "Aluminium" or "Aluminum" wheels instead. I wouldn't know.
05-19-23, 05:31 AM
#57
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,899
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3800 Post(s)
Liked 5,800 Times
in
2,932 Posts
Kind of interesting that mainstream autos moved to alloy/aluminum wheels in the same time frame as bikes. Don't see them following bikes to carbon but who knows? 
05-19-23, 07:34 AM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,835
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Liked 5,155 Times
in
3,185 Posts
Forged alloy and magnesium wheels are used in most racing applications and carbon wheels are now starting to appear. But carbon doesn’t lend itself to cheap mass production on an automotive scale.
Likes For PeteHski:
05-19-23, 07:50 AM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,543
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8433 Post(s)
Liked 9,373 Times
in
4,605 Posts
Likes For big john:
05-19-23, 07:52 AM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,543
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8433 Post(s)
Liked 9,373 Times
in
4,605 Posts
Here is one from 2012.
Likes For big john:
05-23-23, 06:38 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 3,010
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1311 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times
in
545 Posts
for the sake of fleshing out general knowledge...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinfo...E2%80%93carbon
05-23-23, 06:53 PM
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 3,010
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1311 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times
in
545 Posts
You, a mechanic, is telling me, a Mechanical Engineer (BS & MS), to read a few books on the properties of steel?! Thank you, but I've studied enough about steel to last a career.
I will attempt to clarify the above statements:
High strength (spring) steel and mild steel both have about an equal amount of elasticity: the same force will deflect them both by the same amount--until the force is higher than the material's yield strength. Since spring steel has a high yield strength, it can withstand a high force without deforming permanently. Mild steel, on the other hand, has a lower yield stress, so it cannot be stressed as highly without deforming permanently. High strength steel is more brittle than mild steel, but it won't shatter like glass if it is dropped. When high strength steel is stressed beyond its yield limit, it tends to break. Unlike mild steel, which will simply deform permanently.
I will attempt to clarify the above statements:
High strength (spring) steel and mild steel both have about an equal amount of elasticity: the same force will deflect them both by the same amount--until the force is higher than the material's yield strength. Since spring steel has a high yield strength, it can withstand a high force without deforming permanently. Mild steel, on the other hand, has a lower yield stress, so it cannot be stressed as highly without deforming permanently. High strength steel is more brittle than mild steel, but it won't shatter like glass if it is dropped. When high strength steel is stressed beyond its yield limit, it tends to break. Unlike mild steel, which will simply deform permanently.
Last edited by maddog34; 05-23-23 at 07:12 PM.
05-23-23, 07:27 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 3,010
Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1311 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times
in
545 Posts
awww, why play around?.. go for a Locomotive battery... you'll need some more spokes tho... they average about 1500 Pounds... a local ham radio repeater has 6 of them installed for backup during power outages... they had to specially reinforce and thicken the Concrete floor in the shack.....
05-23-23, 09:55 PM
#65
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,537
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2736 Post(s)
Liked 6,066 Times
in
3,094 Posts
Agree with the others. There's not much good to be said about steel rim wheels. That said, steel rims wheels aren't terrible. They're functional as long as you're mindful of their limitations.
I rebuilt a 1973 Sekine SHR recently with a double butted chrome moly main triangle and steel rim wheels which were OEM on the bike. The bike parts (other than the rims) were pretty good for 1973 (suntour derailleurs, dia compe centerpull brakes, SR swaged alloy crank) and the bike rides nicely. I may swap out the wheels one day for aluminum. I paid $20 for the bike and sunk around $18 worth of parts (plus labor obviously) to get it in good riding shape.
I rebuilt a 1973 Sekine SHR recently with a double butted chrome moly main triangle and steel rim wheels which were OEM on the bike. The bike parts (other than the rims) were pretty good for 1973 (suntour derailleurs, dia compe centerpull brakes, SR swaged alloy crank) and the bike rides nicely. I may swap out the wheels one day for aluminum. I paid $20 for the bike and sunk around $18 worth of parts (plus labor obviously) to get it in good riding shape.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Likes For rsbob:
05-23-23, 11:13 PM
#66
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,290
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3586 Post(s)
Liked 3,772 Times
in
1,880 Posts
LOL.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse
05-23-23, 11:27 PM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,984
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2395 Post(s)
Liked 2,952 Times
in
1,611 Posts
awww, why play around?.. go for a Locomotive battery... you'll need some more spokes tho... they average about 1500 Pounds... a local ham radio repeater has 6 of them installed for backup during power outages... they had to specially reinforce and thicken the Concrete floor in the shack.....
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can.
06-07-23, 06:46 AM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,906
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1871 Post(s)
Liked 670 Times
in
511 Posts
I'm not sure why this has popped back in, but my only response is "Okay!"
06-07-23, 08:07 AM
#69
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,761
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11091 Post(s)
Liked 7,681 Times
in
4,279 Posts
06-07-23, 08:18 AM
#70
Rhapsodic Laviathan
06-07-23, 08:47 AM
#71
Rhapsodic Laviathan
The move to alloy car wheels was mostly aesthetic. Cheap cast alloy production wheels are very heavy and relatively weak. But nobody cares as long as they look good.
Forged alloy and magnesium wheels are used in most racing applications and carbon wheels are now starting to appear. But carbon doesn’t lend itself to cheap mass production on an automotive scale.
Forged alloy and magnesium wheels are used in most racing applications and carbon wheels are now starting to appear. But carbon doesn’t lend itself to cheap mass production on an automotive scale.
You'll find more motorcycles with carbon wheels, than cars, most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if a few Porsche had them. The Mustang gt350r had them. Hyper cars don't even typically use them, niether do most race cars.
06-07-23, 09:14 AM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 6,013
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3645 Post(s)
Liked 3,085 Times
in
1,858 Posts
06-07-23, 10:07 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,835
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4613 Post(s)
Liked 5,155 Times
in
3,185 Posts
mmm... not really and relatively compared to what? In the 70s-90s maybe, but still lighter than steelies. A oem alloy wheel might be 12-17ish lbs without a tire. The steelies on my old cvpi with Eagle RSA's were like 40/50lbs, any S550 Mustang alloy I could've put on it would be much lighter combo. Also depends on how the wheel was made, how strong it is.
You'll find more motorcycles with carbon wheels, than cars, most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if a few Porsche had them. The Mustang gt350r had them. Hyper cars don't even typically use them, niether do most race cars.
You'll find more motorcycles with carbon wheels, than cars, most likely. I wouldn't be surprised if a few Porsche had them. The Mustang gt350r had them. Hyper cars don't even typically use them, niether do most race cars.
Even today there is a large difference in weight and strength between a typical OEM cast alloy wheel and a high-end forged alloy. Some of the stock Porsche alloys are surprisingly heavy. Obviously there are practically no steel equivalents today in this market.
