Why does every bike shop sell the same two bikes?
#26
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,719
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Liked 2,496 Times
in
1,287 Posts
It's true that majority of bike shops sell the same boring generic crap such as Specialized, Trek and Giant. The best thing to do is to look to other bike manufacturers and find the type of frame which can be built up in many different configurations and have a bike shop build it for you. That's the only way to get exactly what you want.
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,855
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
If every bike has drop bars and derailleurs, maaaybe it's a sign that these things work well.
I know, it's attractive to think the mainstream is wrong, but it rarely is. Once you give up these preconcieved notions, you end up enjoying cycling without worrying about what the others are riding nor shooting yourself in the foot just to be different.
I know, it's attractive to think the mainstream is wrong, but it rarely is. Once you give up these preconcieved notions, you end up enjoying cycling without worrying about what the others are riding nor shooting yourself in the foot just to be different.
Old grump clubs, riding their weekly group rides at 12 mp average. On their carbon Race bikes, skinny tires, full spandex kit, because its mainstream. All to ride 20 miles.
We need individualism to come back again.
Likes For Metieval:
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,855
Bikes: Road bike, Hybrid, Gravel, Drop bar SS, hard tail MTB
Liked 298 Times
in
214 Posts
Manufactures creating, demand.
Or
Demand, determining what manufactures produce.
Pick one!
Never mind, people are sheep. We all know this. Leaders are few, and leaders are not always correct.
Likes For Metieval:
#29
Newbie
Thread Starter
If every bike has drop bars and derailleurs, maaaybe it's a sign that these things work well.
I know, it's attractive to think the mainstream is wrong, but it rarely is. Once you give up these preconcieved notions, you end up enjoying cycling without worrying about what the others are riding nor shooting yourself in the foot just to be different.
I know, it's attractive to think the mainstream is wrong, but it rarely is. Once you give up these preconcieved notions, you end up enjoying cycling without worrying about what the others are riding nor shooting yourself in the foot just to be different.
If 95% of the restaurants in my area serve cheeseburgers, fried chicken, or pizza, am I to assume that those are healthy, wise meal choices?
If all the convenient stores sell gasoline, cigarettes, and Red Bull, should I stop in to see what I'm missing out on?
Mainstream society has chosen plenty of things that don't work well or that are wrong. Drop bars make it more difficult than flat bars for me to ride in the most comfortable position possible for my back and arms...leaned back with my hands off the bars. They're heavier and bulkier and reduce the stability of the front end. Derailleurs are far more expensive and far less reliable than the single-speed and IGH drivetrains I prefer. It's as simple as that.
#30
Senior Member
So what is is?
Manufactures creating, demand.
Nothing wrong with manufacturers offering new and hopefully improved stuff. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes not. Ultimately the matket decides. Either way some will complain about any change good or bad. Also nothing wrong with them promoting their products.
Or
Demand, determining what manufactures produce.
That ultimately happens in the long run.
Pick one!
It is pretty much always a bit of both. No need to pick.
Manufactures creating, demand.
Nothing wrong with manufacturers offering new and hopefully improved stuff. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes not. Ultimately the matket decides. Either way some will complain about any change good or bad. Also nothing wrong with them promoting their products.
Or
Demand, determining what manufactures produce.
That ultimately happens in the long run.
Pick one!
It is pretty much always a bit of both. No need to pick.
#31
Senior Member
Bike shops (like every other business) exist to make money. If stocking racks upon racks of touring bikes (or any other type of bike) was condusive to that,, that is what you would see. We carry and stock a few such frames, and will be happy to build that (or anything else) to a customer's specs.
ps: Hendrix and Doyle Bramhall are pretty good players...
ps: Hendrix and Doyle Bramhall are pretty good players...
Last edited by wheelreason; 10-08-23 at 08:30 AM.
#33
I seem to recall some dude from Seattle who played a righty left handed and didn’t even restring it. He had some success but ended up dying young. I think Jimi something or other was his name.
Likes For indyfabz:
#34
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,820
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Liked 5,827 Times
in
2,502 Posts
Sounds like a P&R rant. Sheeple is not a bicycling term.
or
go to the touring forum for answers or the fixed gear forum or order a Rohloff equipped bike or go to the C&V forum as many old ruddy (not grumpy) guys there who organize tours and celebrate their unique vintage touring rides.
or
go to the touring forum for answers or the fixed gear forum or order a Rohloff equipped bike or go to the C&V forum as many old ruddy (not grumpy) guys there who organize tours and celebrate their unique vintage touring rides.
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
#35
Senior Member
Dissent for dissent's sake is less likely to give you the right answers than blind conformity, it's just cooler sounding and more attractive. Both are inherently fallacious.
I used to think flat bars were better until I started riding more and more and longer distances, and then added barends and finally swallowed my pride and installed drop bars. I was simply wrong. People who have been doing it for a long time were right, and I, a newcomer to it, was wrong. Who would have thought? 🤔
The thing is, it takes a certain amount of experience to be able to judge what is nonsense and what is valid. Most of the talk about derailleurs vs IGHs vs single speed is theorycrafting which makes sense on paper.
Derailleurs are better in ways which matter for basically everything which isn't a purely utilitarian commuting bike in a flat area (there's a reason why single speeds are mainstream for commuting in Amsterdam). Cheap IGHs are a reasonable alternative to derailleurs in a narrow niche of commuting bikes where there are uphills, and Rohloff for touring in, idk, lower Tasmania 1000km away from what could be described as a bike shop.
I used to think flat bars were better until I started riding more and more and longer distances, and then added barends and finally swallowed my pride and installed drop bars. I was simply wrong. People who have been doing it for a long time were right, and I, a newcomer to it, was wrong. Who would have thought? 🤔
The thing is, it takes a certain amount of experience to be able to judge what is nonsense and what is valid. Most of the talk about derailleurs vs IGHs vs single speed is theorycrafting which makes sense on paper.
Derailleurs are better in ways which matter for basically everything which isn't a purely utilitarian commuting bike in a flat area (there's a reason why single speeds are mainstream for commuting in Amsterdam). Cheap IGHs are a reasonable alternative to derailleurs in a narrow niche of commuting bikes where there are uphills, and Rohloff for touring in, idk, lower Tasmania 1000km away from what could be described as a bike shop.
Last edited by Branko D; 10-08-23 at 09:00 AM.
Likes For Branko D:
#36
I can't even begin to understand this mentality. I'm a born dissenter, so appealing to the status quo and suggesting I do the same perhaps isn't the best argument you could make.
If 95% of the restaurants in my area serve cheeseburgers, fried chicken, or pizza, am I to assume that those are healthy, wise meal choices?
If all the convenient stores sell gasoline, cigarettes, and Red Bull, should I stop in to see what I'm missing out on?
Mainstream society has chosen plenty of things that don't work well or that are wrong. Drop bars make it more difficult than flat bars for me to ride in the most comfortable position possible for my back and arms...leaned back with my hands off the bars. They're heavier and bulkier and reduce the stability of the front end. Derailleurs are far more expensive and far less reliable than the single-speed and IGH drivetrains I prefer. It's as simple as that.
If 95% of the restaurants in my area serve cheeseburgers, fried chicken, or pizza, am I to assume that those are healthy, wise meal choices?
If all the convenient stores sell gasoline, cigarettes, and Red Bull, should I stop in to see what I'm missing out on?
Mainstream society has chosen plenty of things that don't work well or that are wrong. Drop bars make it more difficult than flat bars for me to ride in the most comfortable position possible for my back and arms...leaned back with my hands off the bars. They're heavier and bulkier and reduce the stability of the front end. Derailleurs are far more expensive and far less reliable than the single-speed and IGH drivetrains I prefer. It's as simple as that.
I’d post a photo of a cloud for you to yell at, but nothing but blue sky at the moment.
#37
Senior Member
Paraphrasing Rooster Cogburn in True Grit:
If I ever meet a young white American male who doesn't believe he's a true dissenter and a free-thinker and that everyone else is a sheep, I'll shake his hand and give him a five-cent Daniel Webster see-gar.
If I ever meet a young white American male who doesn't believe he's a true dissenter and a free-thinker and that everyone else is a sheep, I'll shake his hand and give him a five-cent Daniel Webster see-gar.
#38
Sounds like a P&R rant. Sheeple is not a bicycling term.
or
go to the touring forum for answers or the fixed gear forum or order a Rohloff equipped bike or go to the C&V forum as many old ruddy (not grumpy) guys there who organize tours and celebrate their unique vintage touring rides.
or
go to the touring forum for answers or the fixed gear forum or order a Rohloff equipped bike or go to the C&V forum as many old ruddy (not grumpy) guys there who organize tours and celebrate their unique vintage touring rides.
Likes For indyfabz:
#39
Senior Member
Why?
You seem to have some big axe to grind with the manufacturers as if the first one constitutes some miscondict on their part. I do not. I think that for the most part manufacturers creating demand is fine and part of the process. Where they get it wrong the marketplace ultimately corrects.
You seem to have some big axe to grind with the manufacturers as if the first one constitutes some miscondict on their part. I do not. I think that for the most part manufacturers creating demand is fine and part of the process. Where they get it wrong the marketplace ultimately corrects.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,929
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Liked 3,932 Times
in
2,053 Posts
People who rebel are so closely tied to the status quo ... they need it to define their dissent ... and they call themselves "independent."
People who are actually independent realize that there are many paths and many people walking them ... and not all the people walking in the same direction are sheep ... they are just going in a similar direction.
Why do people ride multi-speed bikes with drop bars? Because for a whole lot of people They Work Really Well.
Even if I am old and fat and average 14 mph, I do it on a drop bar road-bike most of the time because, Having Tested All the Alternatives, I find it the best for my purposes.
"Look at all those stupid, conformist sheep driving nails with hammers."
You want a specialty machine, and complain because not everyone else does ... but if everyone did, would you sell yours because you wouldn't want to "conform to the norm"?
You are a 6'9", 400-lb guy going into a Target for new clothes and complaining that nothing fits. If you saw some giant in a target throwing a tantrum because none of the clothes fit, you would walk away ... no point in engaging there, lost cause.
Yet here on Bike Forums ...
Go buy the bike you want. it is out there if you Really want it. Don't ask for the Bike Fairy to deliver it to your door ... the Bike Fairy is Not Real.
Don't hate me for telling you that.
People who are actually independent realize that there are many paths and many people walking them ... and not all the people walking in the same direction are sheep ... they are just going in a similar direction.
Why do people ride multi-speed bikes with drop bars? Because for a whole lot of people They Work Really Well.
Even if I am old and fat and average 14 mph, I do it on a drop bar road-bike most of the time because, Having Tested All the Alternatives, I find it the best for my purposes.
"Look at all those stupid, conformist sheep driving nails with hammers."
You want a specialty machine, and complain because not everyone else does ... but if everyone did, would you sell yours because you wouldn't want to "conform to the norm"?
You are a 6'9", 400-lb guy going into a Target for new clothes and complaining that nothing fits. If you saw some giant in a target throwing a tantrum because none of the clothes fit, you would walk away ... no point in engaging there, lost cause.
Yet here on Bike Forums ...
Go buy the bike you want. it is out there if you Really want it. Don't ask for the Bike Fairy to deliver it to your door ... the Bike Fairy is Not Real.
Don't hate me for telling you that.
Likes For Maelochs:
#41
Tinker-er
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 676
Bikes: 1956 Rudge Sports; 1983 Univega Alpina Uno; 1981 Miyata 610; 1973 Raleigh Twenty; 1994 Breezer Lightning XTR; V4 Yuba Mundo aka "The Schlepper"; 1987 Raleigh "The Edge" Mountain Trials; 1952 R.O. Harrison "Madison"; 1994 Concorde Aquila
Liked 425 Times
in
271 Posts
Sounds like the OP simply needs to suck it up and build their own bike. Absolutely nothing is going to be off-the-shelf ready, so the fixed or IGH upright touring bike with flat bars will need to be built. A few years ago, this was called a "hybrid", now it's called a gravel bike. Perhaps a gravel bike with the handlebars changed and a new rear wheel with an IGH is just the ticket. This creature will NOT be found stocked on the floor of any shop though, since it's a niche within a niche market.
#42
Newbie
Thread Starter
Come on, now I'm a troll? The cost issue was more in relation to single-speed setups. But, let's not pretend like there aren't groupsets that cost twice what the Rohloff does. Or hubs that cost a fraction of that.
I'm also not going to ignore the fact that buying a bike I've never had an opportunity to ride is risky and inconvenient. I know I can order a bike. I could also move to Holland, but that wouldn't be very convenient, either.
But, that's not my original point. Which is:
Most American bike shops offer a disturbingly homogeneous selection.
I find it really hard to believe that an unmanipulated society of hundreds of millions of people would uniformly be very keen to ride the exact same bike as one another.
I'm also not going to ignore the fact that buying a bike I've never had an opportunity to ride is risky and inconvenient. I know I can order a bike. I could also move to Holland, but that wouldn't be very convenient, either.
But, that's not my original point. Which is:
Most American bike shops offer a disturbingly homogeneous selection.
I find it really hard to believe that an unmanipulated society of hundreds of millions of people would uniformly be very keen to ride the exact same bike as one another.
Likes For Jameth:
#43
Senior Member
Bike frames are designed with a certain type of handlebars in mind. A gravel bike is designed and sized around drop bars, which add a lot of reach on a bike.
You get the best results by starting with your intended use and then choose the kind of bike which does it best. If you want to eat up lots of miles on the open road, a drop bar road bike just does it best. Gnarly offroad? MTB. So on and on.
If you start from the imagined ideal bike which you think is best, that is just backwards.
Most US customers don't buy bikes for commuting or touring and hence the set of ideal bikes for their purposes is fairly homogeneous.
You get the best results by starting with your intended use and then choose the kind of bike which does it best. If you want to eat up lots of miles on the open road, a drop bar road bike just does it best. Gnarly offroad? MTB. So on and on.
If you start from the imagined ideal bike which you think is best, that is just backwards.
Most US customers don't buy bikes for commuting or touring and hence the set of ideal bikes for their purposes is fairly homogeneous.
#44
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 21,155
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy Viscount Aerospace Pro Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Liked 7,492 Times
in
4,191 Posts
Likes For cb400bill:
#45
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 25,043
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Liked 3,675 Times
in
2,077 Posts
Likes For JohnDThompson:
#46
Junior Member
I see the other side of the problem. people go to bike shops to get a test ride and then go home and buy it online I'm guilty of that with bike shoes and helmets. sizing is all over the chartsso I admit to trying on few things in the bikeke shop an then ordering online to save a few bucks. I try to make up for it by buying everything i can from the LBS when possible including a bike every now and then.
#47
Senior Member
There's an optimal kind of bike for a certain purpose. If you're aiming to ride some gnarly singletrack, a MTB is simply optimal. Sure, you can do it on a road bike if you don't mind walking sections of it as a demonstration that it's possible, but it's just an inferior choice. Everyone gets that.
If you’re aiming at riding lots of miles on the road? Road bike. Sure, you can do it on a lot of bikes, but why choose something inferior for the purpose? Going to throw some lighter offroad in the mix or ride exclusively nontechnical offroad? Gravel bike.
If most people are buying bikes for sport and intend to ride them on the road, then as a shop you will unsurprisingly have a selection of road bikes, not because they are manipulated, but because it's the best bike for the purposes of a vast majority of people who come there.
A Rohloff is a good alternative to a derailleur for an around the world bike tour, but who does that? One in a hundred thousand of people who buy a bike? It's not going to be in a shop, and if you're looking for it and don't plan to tour in nowhereland, you are doing it because you're contrarian and don't have the experience to judge what you are talking about.
Last edited by Branko D; 10-08-23 at 09:35 AM.
Likes For Branko D:
#48
Junior Member
I've had more than one bike shop offer to work with me if I ordered a bike and it didn't fit or I didn't like it. usually something like I could use the deposit for any other purchase in the shop.
There are more than enough reviews of Surly bikes all over the internet and most of them are positive. if you want a LHT just order one. I doubt you'll be disappointed.I also agree with the comments about building your own dream bike order a frame and have your bike shop build up whatever you want. they win, you win.
There are more than enough reviews of Surly bikes all over the internet and most of them are positive. if you want a LHT just order one. I doubt you'll be disappointed.I also agree with the comments about building your own dream bike order a frame and have your bike shop build up whatever you want. they win, you win.
#49
"Drop bars make it more difficult than flat bars for me to ride in the most comfortable position possible for my back and arms...leaned back with my hands off the bars. They're heavier and bulkier and reduce the stability of the front end. Derailleurs are far more expensive and far less reliable than the single-speed and IGH drivetrains I prefer. It's as simple as that."
Personal preferences can be accommodated by most any shop, and please do not expect them to take the financial risk to please your fancy. Pay up front and let them do their thing.
Personal preferences can be accommodated by most any shop, and please do not expect them to take the financial risk to please your fancy. Pay up front and let them do their thing.
#50
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,719
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Liked 2,496 Times
in
1,287 Posts
There is no law which prohibits you from being different. You are allowed to ride whatever bike you want.....Personally I've been riding only SS and FG bikes for the past 15 years. That's right, I haven't shifted gears for 15 years, oh the horror .... Do I care what other cyclists think of me ???. Not one bit....It's pointless to argue and debate personal preferences here on bikeforums especially if your preferences are not mainstream.