How Long Are Your Long Training Rides?
#1
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How Long Are Your Long Training Rides?
A question to those who train for and participate in single-stage ultra-distance races (>500 miles, >800 km): How long are your long training rides when preparing for an event?
I caught the ultra-distance bug a few years ago and have been hooked ever since. However, due to physical issues (primarily foot related) I'm currently limited to the shorter end of the ultra-distance spectrum, focusing on 500-mile races.
When preparing for a race, my "long" training rides typically top out at 200 miles (total weekly volume tops out between 500 and 600 miles). Spending 10-12 hours in the saddle with minimal break time is enough to be physically challenging without pushing beyond my ability to recover quickly. I generally try to do 2-3 double centuries in the weeks leading up to a race along with a bunch of century rides. In the final week before a race I pretty much chill, doing just enough riding at a zone 1 / zone 2 pace to keep the legs fresh. It's worked out well, as I've never DNF'd and have finished every race I've entered.
While my training is working for me (generally speaking), I'm curious how others plan and structure their training rides leading up to a big event. Thanks in advance!
I caught the ultra-distance bug a few years ago and have been hooked ever since. However, due to physical issues (primarily foot related) I'm currently limited to the shorter end of the ultra-distance spectrum, focusing on 500-mile races.
When preparing for a race, my "long" training rides typically top out at 200 miles (total weekly volume tops out between 500 and 600 miles). Spending 10-12 hours in the saddle with minimal break time is enough to be physically challenging without pushing beyond my ability to recover quickly. I generally try to do 2-3 double centuries in the weeks leading up to a race along with a bunch of century rides. In the final week before a race I pretty much chill, doing just enough riding at a zone 1 / zone 2 pace to keep the legs fresh. It's worked out well, as I've never DNF'd and have finished every race I've entered.
While my training is working for me (generally speaking), I'm curious how others plan and structure their training rides leading up to a big event. Thanks in advance!
#2
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Back in my rando days (10-20 yrs ago), I concluded that if I could handle 100 miles comfortably, I could handle any distance. Not fast, but solidly "mid-pack", with a few "two century" training weekends, just to put my mind at ease. My time at the 2008 Rocky Mountain 1200 was 79:50. Solidly mid-pack.
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I always thought that anything up to 300km had a positive training effect. 400km seemed to be a little counterproductive for me, and I spent too much time recovering. But 100km is a nice training distance, because recovery is almost immediate. After a nap. Even 100km is something I wouldn't do more than a couple of times a week, that's enough. Burnout is quite possible if you ride too much. But I have ridden much more than that and it definitely makes you faster. One aspect is how fast you can do those distances, because if it takes too much time, then burnout is more likely.
I have seen the top distance racers will often do long rides. And I recently saw something about how you need to ride over 15 (20?) hours a week to be in top shape.
I have seen the top distance racers will often do long rides. And I recently saw something about how you need to ride over 15 (20?) hours a week to be in top shape.
#4
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I always thought that anything up to 300km had a positive training effect. 400km seemed to be a little counterproductive for me, and I spent too much time recovering. But 100km is a nice training distance, because recovery is almost immediate. After a nap. Even 100km is something I wouldn't do more than a couple of times a week, that's enough. Burnout is quite possible if you ride too much. But I have ridden much more than that and it definitely makes you faster. One aspect is how fast you can do those distances, because if it takes too much time, then burnout is more likely.
I have seen the top distance racers will often do long rides. And I recently saw something about how you need to ride over 15 (20?) hours a week to be in top shape.
I have seen the top distance racers will often do long rides. And I recently saw something about how you need to ride over 15 (20?) hours a week to be in top shape.
#5
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I'm only vaguely curious why you asked the question in the OP if you didn't want people's opinions. I doubt I will be checking your thread, good luck in any races you do
#6
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Thanks for your feedback. Happy Riding
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Generally I'm targeting a 1000 km or 1200 km brevet, and my training is an SR series plus keeping my R-12 going The last year or so I started a P-12, so that's an added training load.
#8
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Thanks for the responses. However, I'd like to make it clear this is not a randonneuring thread. From my perspective ultradistance and randonneuring are very different. Thanks.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
Last edited by Turnin_Wrenches; 01-06-24 at 12:32 PM.
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Thanks for the responses. However, I'd like to make it clear this is not a randonneuring thread. From my perspective ultradistance and randonneuring are very different. Thanks.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
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#10
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I much prefer point-to-point events from a psychological perspective. There's a destination, the scenery changes, it's mentally engaging along the way. That being said, I need to do more 24 hr. events. It's a wonderful format for developing proper pacing and mental toughness. It's also a relatively safe format because you're never too far from the start/finish if something goes wrong.
For anyone who's comfortable racing double-centuries and is curious about ultradistance, I think 24 hr. events are a great way to start. The physical challenge is similar to a 500-mile race, the mental challenge might be more intense than a 500-mile point-to-point race, and if you DNF in a 24 hr. event you're not stuck out in the middle of nowhere.
Regarding your comment about weight lifting, it's been on my "need to start doing that" list for about 2 years and I just can't get my butt in gear. I'm curious to know what type of lifting you do and how frequently, as weight lifting is an aspect of training about which I know very little.
Last edited by Turnin_Wrenches; 01-06-24 at 05:48 PM.
#11
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Thanks for the responses. However, I'd like to make it clear this is not a randonneuring thread. From my perspective ultradistance and randonneuring are very different. Thanks.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
EDIT: Per the Randonneurs USA web site... Randonneuring is long-distance unsupported endurance cycling. This style of riding is non-competitive in nature, and self-sufficiency is paramount.
This thread pertains to single-stage ultradistance races, not randonneuring. Yes, there is some overlap in the sense that both are long-distance formats. Other than that they are pretty different animals.
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It's really hard for a randonneur to agree that there isn't overlap between distance racing and randonneuring. RUSA is run by a batch of people who have been ignoring the fact that randonneuring started as racing, and the statement on the RUSA website is a political statement. But they don't make the rules for randonneuring, the ACP does. I know randonneurs that have raced TABR and RAAM. At the front, PBP is a race. That is the defining event of randonneuring.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
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... weight lifting, it's been on my "need to start doing that" list for about 2 years and I just can't get my butt in gear. I'm curious to know what type of lifting you do and how frequently, as weight lifting is an aspect of training about which I know very little.
And occasionally do an hour on the stair master. After an initial 15 minutes of warming up I set the speed at the pace that gives me a pretty high heart rate, but a rate well below my calculated max. I do not have heart problems, but I do not want to develop any from overdoing it is my guide here. I wear hiking boots and ankle weights on the stair master.
Several years ago I saw someone at the gym that must have been trying to get ready to pass a physical test. I saw her a few times at the gym wearing full firefighter gear on the stair master. She was not breathing supplied air but was wearing the air tank, etc.
I am not a racer and have never aspired to be. I am at an age where maintaining muscle mass and bone strength takes work, that is why I do it. (I rode my first brevet at age 65.)
#14
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For completely different reasons I use a leg press at a gym a few times a week. If I can do 10 reps and a few minutes later can do 10 reps again, if I am at that stage for a few weeks I add one more weight. I do this during winter. During summer, I try to do this periodically but less often, and when I go less often I find I am reducing weight. And the following fall and winter am trying to increase it again.
And occasionally do an hour on the stair master. After an initial 15 minutes of warming up I set the speed at the pace that gives me a pretty high heart rate, but a rate well below my calculated max. I do not have heart problems, but I do not want to develop any from overdoing it is my guide here. I wear hiking boots and ankle weights on the stair master.
Several years ago I saw someone at the gym that must have been trying to get ready to pass a physical test. I saw her a few times at the gym wearing full firefighter gear on the stair master. She was not breathing supplied air but was wearing the air tank, etc.
I am not a racer and have never aspired to be. I am at an age where maintaining muscle mass and bone strength takes work, that is why I do it. (I rode my first brevet at age 65.)
And occasionally do an hour on the stair master. After an initial 15 minutes of warming up I set the speed at the pace that gives me a pretty high heart rate, but a rate well below my calculated max. I do not have heart problems, but I do not want to develop any from overdoing it is my guide here. I wear hiking boots and ankle weights on the stair master.
Several years ago I saw someone at the gym that must have been trying to get ready to pass a physical test. I saw her a few times at the gym wearing full firefighter gear on the stair master. She was not breathing supplied air but was wearing the air tank, etc.
I am not a racer and have never aspired to be. I am at an age where maintaining muscle mass and bone strength takes work, that is why I do it. (I rode my first brevet at age 65.)
#15
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It's really hard for a randonneur to agree that there isn't overlap between distance racing and randonneuring. RUSA is run by a batch of people who have been ignoring the fact that randonneuring started as racing, and the statement on the RUSA website is a political statement. But they don't make the rules for randonneuring, the ACP does. I know randonneurs that have raced TABR and RAAM. At the front, PBP is a race. That is the defining event of randonneuring.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
Time limits for ultradistance races are less forgiving than for randonneuring events. I think Paris-Brest-Paris, which is about 750 miles, has a time limit of 90 hours. Whereas, a typical 500-mile ultradistance race will have a time limit of 48 hours.
Randonneuring (as I understand it) is also inherently a self-supported discipline, but also one that allows event participants to ride in groups (with some limitations) and provide assistance to one another. Ultradistance in most cases involves a solo effort. It can be either unsupported or supported. Drafting and riding in groups is strictly prohibited. There are team categories in ultracycling (usually 2, 4 or 8 person teams) in which drafting within the team is allowed, but that's the only exception to the "no drafting" rule.
#16
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It's really hard for a randonneur to agree that there isn't overlap between distance racing and randonneuring. RUSA is run by a batch of people who have been ignoring the fact that randonneuring started as racing, and the statement on the RUSA website is a political statement. But they don't make the rules for randonneuring, the ACP does. I know randonneurs that have raced TABR and RAAM. At the front, PBP is a race. That is the defining event of randonneuring.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
It seems to me that in any of the long distance races, the first few people might be going faster, but the majority of riders converge on a below-randonneuring minimum pace soon enough. Well before 1200k, in most cases. And I have also seen so many people fall apart early in TABR, just as one example, that it makes me think they should have been riding randonneuring events to harden up a little. So many people blow up at around 400km. I know it's a tough 400k, but so are many RUSA 400k brevets.
Article 12 ... these brevets are not competitive events, so no rider classifications are made.
Article 10: 34 km / h (km 1 to 200); 32 km / h (km 201 to 400); 30 km / h (km 401 to 600); 28 km / h (km 601 to 1000
An 18mph speed limit is hardly consistent with a bike race. As I understand, the ACP imposed this maximum specifically to discourage professional racers from participating in PBP, after it ended as a professional race in 1951.
There are many ACP rules that are inconsistent with racing.
Yes, people on the front of PBP are competing, and yes we all know who finishes first. It's not sanctioned as a race, it's not run as a race, the rules are not racing rules, the officials are not race officials. It's nothing more than some fast guys on the front of an amateur non competitive event, racing each other for bragging rights.
Last edited by downtube42; 01-07-24 at 08:46 PM.
#17
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Actions speak louder than words. They have, in the past, threatened to get rid of the top 10 of PBP. Then they present them at the post ride dinner. They homologated 2023's best time even though it beat the lower limit.
In any event, crossover with racers is good, I think. If it's not competitive, why are there time limits? 100% of all RBAs I know of make mention of the first finisher.
In any event, crossover with racers is good, I think. If it's not competitive, why are there time limits? 100% of all RBAs I know of make mention of the first finisher.
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Actions speak louder than words. They have, in the past, threatened to get rid of the top 10 of PBP. Then they present them at the post ride dinner. They homologated 2023's best time even though it beat the lower limit.
In any event, crossover with racers is good, I think. If it's not competitive, why are there time limits? 100% of all RBAs I know of make mention of the first finisher.
In any event, crossover with racers is good, I think. If it's not competitive, why are there time limits? 100% of all RBAs I know of make mention of the first finisher.
I can understand the ACP debating within itself whether the first finishers should be honored or ignored, respected or disallowed. Because I think the first finishers are marginally within the spirit of the sport. Whereas those with a racing mentality would rather see the slow people disrespected and potentially eliminated from the sport. This later point, that racing mentality disrespects slower people, is what clearly and absolutely does not align with the spirit of the sport.
#19
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I think Americans, and likely other anglophiles, Germans, likely other cultures, have difficulty understanding and accepting what is culturally a French sport. There are the rules of the sport, and there is the spirit of the sport. In many cultures, the rules are what matter, whereas in the French view the spirit is what matters and the rules attempt to codify that spirit. Randonneuring is about self sufficiency, comeraderie, respect, resilience. Speed is consistent with the spirit of randonneuring, but just enough speed is respected. Drafting is consistent with the spirit, but drafting to protect your team leader so he can launch an attack is not.
I can understand the ACP debating within itself whether the first finishers should be honored or ignored, respected or disallowed. Because I think the first finishers are marginally within the spirit of the sport. Whereas those with a racing mentality would rather see the slow people disrespected and potentially eliminated from the sport. This later point, that racing mentality disrespects slower people, is what clearly and absolutely does not align with the spirit of the sport.
I can understand the ACP debating within itself whether the first finishers should be honored or ignored, respected or disallowed. Because I think the first finishers are marginally within the spirit of the sport. Whereas those with a racing mentality would rather see the slow people disrespected and potentially eliminated from the sport. This later point, that racing mentality disrespects slower people, is what clearly and absolutely does not align with the spirit of the sport.
Nobody is arguing over whether it's a race or not a race in ultradistance. It's a race! Does that mean that slow(er) riders are looked down upon by the elite riders of the discipline? Absolutely not! In fact, just the opposite. As one of the slower riders in the events in which I participate, I have been treated just like everyone else. The more experienced riders have been very generous with their advice and their support. Because it is such a small community I think everyone who does ultracycling is usually excited to see more people join the fun, and everyone legitimately wants to see everyone else succeed in reaching the finish line.
The rules of ultracycling also contribute to the positive dynamic. There is no drafting, there is no riding in groups. There are no rules that muddy the waters as to what an ultradistance race is. It's a solo effort. Each participant is riding his or her race with very little interaction with other riders on the course. For the most part we don't even see each other between the start of the race and the finish line. It's just you, your bike, and the universe. At the finish line you are warmly greeted by the other competitors who just kicked your ass and we have a big party. Everyone's effort is celebrated and everyone is proud of what they accomplished (regardless of where you finished among the field).
#20
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The comments above nicely summarize why I identify as an ultradistance cyclist. IMO, the rules of the discipline and the spirit of the discipline line up quite well.
Nobody is arguing over whether it's a race or not a race in ultradistance. It's a race! Does that mean that slow(er) riders are looked down upon by the elite riders of the discipline? Absolutely not! In fact, just the opposite. As one of the slower riders in the events in which I participate, I have been treated just like everyone else. The more experienced riders have been very generous with their advice and their support. Because it is such a small community I think everyone who does ultracycling is usually excited to see more people join the fun, and everyone legitimately wants to see everyone else succeed in reaching the finish line.
The rules of ultracycling also contribute to the positive dynamic. There is no drafting, there is no riding in groups. There are no rules that muddy the waters as to what an ultradistance race is. It's a solo effort. Each participant is riding his or her race with very little interaction with other riders on the course. For the most part we don't even see each other between the start of the race and the finish line. It's just you, your bike, and the universe. At the finish line you are warmly greeted by the other competitors who just kicked your ass and we have a big party. Everyone's effort is celebrated and everyone is proud of what they accomplished (regardless of where you finished among the field).
Nobody is arguing over whether it's a race or not a race in ultradistance. It's a race! Does that mean that slow(er) riders are looked down upon by the elite riders of the discipline? Absolutely not! In fact, just the opposite. As one of the slower riders in the events in which I participate, I have been treated just like everyone else. The more experienced riders have been very generous with their advice and their support. Because it is such a small community I think everyone who does ultracycling is usually excited to see more people join the fun, and everyone legitimately wants to see everyone else succeed in reaching the finish line.
The rules of ultracycling also contribute to the positive dynamic. There is no drafting, there is no riding in groups. There are no rules that muddy the waters as to what an ultradistance race is. It's a solo effort. Each participant is riding his or her race with very little interaction with other riders on the course. For the most part we don't even see each other between the start of the race and the finish line. It's just you, your bike, and the universe. At the finish line you are warmly greeted by the other competitors who just kicked your ass and we have a big party. Everyone's effort is celebrated and everyone is proud of what they accomplished (regardless of where you finished among the field).
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#21
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A question to those who train for and participate in single-stage ultra-distance races (>500 miles, >800 km): How long are your long training rides when preparing for an event?
I caught the ultra-distance bug a few years ago and have been hooked ever since. However, due to physical issues (primarily foot related) I'm currently limited to the shorter end of the ultra-distance spectrum, focusing on 500-mile races.
When preparing for a race, my "long" training rides typically top out at 200 miles (total weekly volume tops out between 500 and 600 miles). Spending 10-12 hours in the saddle with minimal break time is enough to be physically challenging without pushing beyond my ability to recover quickly. I generally try to do 2-3 double centuries in the weeks leading up to a race along with a bunch of century rides. In the final week before a race I pretty much chill, doing just enough riding at a zone 1 / zone 2 pace to keep the legs fresh. It's worked out well, as I've never DNF'd and have finished every race I've entered.
While my training is working for me (generally speaking), I'm curious how others plan and structure their training rides leading up to a big event. Thanks in advance!
I caught the ultra-distance bug a few years ago and have been hooked ever since. However, due to physical issues (primarily foot related) I'm currently limited to the shorter end of the ultra-distance spectrum, focusing on 500-mile races.
When preparing for a race, my "long" training rides typically top out at 200 miles (total weekly volume tops out between 500 and 600 miles). Spending 10-12 hours in the saddle with minimal break time is enough to be physically challenging without pushing beyond my ability to recover quickly. I generally try to do 2-3 double centuries in the weeks leading up to a race along with a bunch of century rides. In the final week before a race I pretty much chill, doing just enough riding at a zone 1 / zone 2 pace to keep the legs fresh. It's worked out well, as I've never DNF'd and have finished every race I've entered.
While my training is working for me (generally speaking), I'm curious how others plan and structure their training rides leading up to a big event. Thanks in advance!
#22
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15 years ago i did some rando for a few years, but nothing over 400k. For me, the best training was a 4-5 hour hilly ride, ridden TT style, that is for my lowest possible elapsed time. The lowest elapsed time thing is the interesting part. Working on that taught me how to pace myself on differing terrain and how to stay fed and hydrated. I could do one of those rides once a week and still get in some good midweek mileage. Then maybe once a month I'd do something longer, like a double or a long mountain ride. Luckily we have mountains around here. Other than that, the SR series is good and necessary.
About that "race" discussion, well my club posted finishing times. 'nuf said. And backing up one poster, yes, folks near the bottom of that list were also admired. Good for them! I was tempted to do a slow brevet, talk a lot and take photos - except that I dislike riding at night. It happened that one of our fastest riders wound up marrying one of our slowest, if not the slowest rider. They're a good couple.
About that "race" discussion, well my club posted finishing times. 'nuf said. And backing up one poster, yes, folks near the bottom of that list were also admired. Good for them! I was tempted to do a slow brevet, talk a lot and take photos - except that I dislike riding at night. It happened that one of our fastest riders wound up marrying one of our slowest, if not the slowest rider. They're a good couple.
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