Rear Light - Flashing or Steady?
#101
Senior Member
The combination which caught my eye while driving at night was a cyclist, or bike rider, with two reflective bands on his ankles separately going up and down with a very bright blinking light on their seat post. From a half mile back, could tell if wearing hi-vis.
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
I believe the research says a white or light colored helmet is also more visible to motorists. If I want sick, I’d feel motivated to look it up
what was mildly concerning to me, was that when I was looking for my new highlighter, yellow helmet, many of the options that were available had names like “Sunset Blue” or so close to black or white that they may as well have been. Surprisingly hard to find a hi-viz helmet!
#102
For dimmer lighting conditions, I decided to pick up a highlighter yellow helmet. In shade or near dusk conditions, I fear my black helmet will disappear, and I have concerns about why white helmet blending into a cloudy sky from behind.
what was mildly concerning to me, was that when I was looking for my new highlighter, yellow helmet, many of the options that were available had names like “Sunset Blue” or so close to black or white that they may as well have been. Surprisingly hard to find a hi-viz helmet!
what was mildly concerning to me, was that when I was looking for my new highlighter, yellow helmet, many of the options that were available had names like “Sunset Blue” or so close to black or white that they may as well have been. Surprisingly hard to find a hi-viz helmet!
#103
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Granted, many of the replies in this thread have focused on the broader topic of cycling safety rather than the specifics of flashing vs steady red tail lights; but this is the comment of the thread so far imho:
I happen to live in a part of the world where there's a pretty negative attitude towards road cyclists, however a) we also have more than our fair share of self-righteous and/or dangerous cyclists whose behaviour contributes to the bad attitudes of 'the other side', and b) even in a utopia where motorists were perfectly law-abiding, sober, safety conscious and attentive, the immutable physics of a metallic object weighing at least a couple of tons coming into sudden contact with a human on a bike weighing one or two orders of magnitude less, will render irrelevant the "motorist was blind/stupid" argument every time, with only miraculous and/or spectacular exception. The slightest misjudgement by an otherwise perfect, safe, friendly motorist (i.e. a fallible human, as we all are) is still going to seriously injure, hospitalise or kill a cyclist, leaving the motorist at the scene 'treated for shock.'
So, of course, do everything you reasonably can to maximise your visibility to other road users, scrutinise the scientific studies and debate the technological intricacies, but in my humble opinion your overall defensive riding mindset, situational awareness, decision-making and attitude about where; when, how and with whom you ride on the road are going to do at least as much but probably way more in keeping you out of harm's way than using the right gear while rehearsing your "the driver was an idiot officer" lines for the emergency ward.
I realize that ardent proponents of forcing everyone to pay attention to bicyclists will not like to hear this, the basic fact remains that a bicyclist has everything to lose in an accident with a car/truck so it’s crucial that we ride as defensively as possible in the interest of self-preservation.
So, of course, do everything you reasonably can to maximise your visibility to other road users, scrutinise the scientific studies and debate the technological intricacies, but in my humble opinion your overall defensive riding mindset, situational awareness, decision-making and attitude about where; when, how and with whom you ride on the road are going to do at least as much but probably way more in keeping you out of harm's way than using the right gear while rehearsing your "the driver was an idiot officer" lines for the emergency ward.
Last edited by Sapper69; 01-10-24 at 07:52 PM.
#104
Senior Member
Maybe helmet colour is simply not that important. When I see a cyclist on the road, the first thing I notice is whether or not they have lights. Second is the colour of their jersey and any reflective patches. Would a hi-vis helmet make much difference? Maybe it would if you didn’t have lights and was wearing a black jersey. Otherwise I’m not convinced it matters. I have seen a few helmets with integrated lights which caught my attention.
I got the helmet after realizing that most of my attire was predominantly black. Even my late-fall/winter jersey is an "Overcast Sky" grey, and my warmest bibs are a "Worn Pavement" grey.
I agree, as both a driver and a cyclist who notices other cyclists, lights are best for getting noticed from further away (I personally think a fast blinky is the best kind of blinky). Then reflectivity, then bright colors last - they're only helpful when there's actually light, and that can be hard to find at this time of year. That said, if a bright yellow helmet helps a car notice me half a second sooner, or a bright yellow glove gets them to notice my signal earlier, then I'm all for those pieces of kit.
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#105
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bicyclists also need to start looking at these situations a little differently. Rather than griping about the irresponsible, illogical and idiotic drivers among the like-minded people, assume that drivers really are what bicyclists think of them - the next step then becomes a matter of self-preservation. Who has more to lose; is not losing your momentum* worth risking your limbs and even life?
My Dad's comment to me was "Drive as if everyone is potentially trying to kill you, because it doesn't matter who's 'wrong' or 'right' once you've collided."
#106
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When I first started driving a car, I got a 1970 Volkswagen Beetle...which, as anyone who owned one can attest, is about as durable and protective as a tin can.
My Dad's comment to me was "Drive as if everyone is potentially trying to kill you, because it doesn't matter who's 'wrong' or 'right' once you've collided."
My Dad's comment to me was "Drive as if everyone is potentially trying to kill you, because it doesn't matter who's 'wrong' or 'right' once you've collided."
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#107
When I first started driving a car, I got a 1970 Volkswagen Beetle...which, as anyone who owned one can attest, is about as durable and protective as a tin can.
My Dad's comment to me was "Drive as if everyone is potentially trying to kill you, because it doesn't matter who's 'wrong' or 'right' once you've collided."
My Dad's comment to me was "Drive as if everyone is potentially trying to kill you, because it doesn't matter who's 'wrong' or 'right' once you've collided."
After that summer experience, it wasn’t too difficult to convince her to get proper car with water cooled engine with an AC inside.
#108
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My wife had one when had just met. All I remember about this tin can was that it used to get vapor locked in hot summers and she would cool the fuel line and the surrounding area by dumping ice water on it and the car will start again. I had never seen anyone dumping ice water on their car engine before.
After that summer experience, it wasn’t too difficult to convince her to get proper car with water cooled engine with an AC inside.
After that summer experience, it wasn’t too difficult to convince her to get proper car with water cooled engine with an AC inside.
#109
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I have a Garmin Varia blinking away on the rear, and depending on conditions, I have up to two blinkies going on the front.
I got the helmet after realizing that most of my attire was predominantly black. Even my late-fall/winter jersey is an "Overcast Sky" grey, and my warmest bibs are a "Worn Pavement" grey.
I agree, as both a driver and a cyclist who notices other cyclists, lights are best for getting noticed from further away (I personally think a fast blinky is the best kind of blinky). Then reflectivity, then bright colors last - they're only helpful when there's actually light, and that can be hard to find at this time of year. That said, if a bright yellow helmet helps a car notice me half a second sooner, or a bright yellow glove gets them to notice my signal earlier, then I'm all for those pieces of kit.
I got the helmet after realizing that most of my attire was predominantly black. Even my late-fall/winter jersey is an "Overcast Sky" grey, and my warmest bibs are a "Worn Pavement" grey.
I agree, as both a driver and a cyclist who notices other cyclists, lights are best for getting noticed from further away (I personally think a fast blinky is the best kind of blinky). Then reflectivity, then bright colors last - they're only helpful when there's actually light, and that can be hard to find at this time of year. That said, if a bright yellow helmet helps a car notice me half a second sooner, or a bright yellow glove gets them to notice my signal earlier, then I'm all for those pieces of kit.
Trying to single-handedly bend the curve, as I bought one red and one yellow bike last year. :-)
#110
Senior Member
You're not off base. We seem to be in an era where trendy means monochrome for cycling clothes and bikes themselves. "We have Special Black, Anthracite, Bleak Mood, Dusk Fog, Tarnished Silver and Despair. Plenty of choices!"
Trying to single-handedly bend the curve, as I bought one red and one yellow bike last year. :-)
Trying to single-handedly bend the curve, as I bought one red and one yellow bike last year. :-)
I ride with someone from time to time who wears mostly foliage colored jerseys - forest green and burnt siena are great colors for blending into a fall forest.
#111
Full Member
I use a rearward facing flashing red light on the seat post. If I were riding at night, I would additionally add a rearward facing steady white light on my ankle - I believe the motion of that light while pedaling would help a motorist figure out that it’s a cyclist.
#112
Junior Member
My bikes are silver (painted steel and Ti), so they're no help on a cloudy day at dusk. That means it's time to buy a Pegoretti, right? We want the bright, musical themed paintjob for safety, right?
I ride with someone from time to time who wears mostly foliage colored jerseys - forest green and burnt siena are great colors for blending into a fall forest.
I ride with someone from time to time who wears mostly foliage colored jerseys - forest green and burnt siena are great colors for blending into a fall forest.
At dusk, a Celeste colored Bianchi rode past me and it totally stood out. Unfortunately, he made a turn and started going away from me and he was basically invisible. The seat stays/chain stays were so thin they had no color. Of course he was wearing all black with no lights. Just asking for trouble..
#113
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Yes sometimes when I feel I need extra protection, I'll run two flashing lights, flashing at different intervals. As with other safety equipment, I can never tell if it really works. Maybe one day, I will learn that it doesn't work.
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#114
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For all I know the two discordant flash patterns enrage drivers and make them want to hit me.
#115
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Yes. You understand me.
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#116
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One on my left arm and one on my left leg below the knee, both in blink mode.
Two other taillights, one on pulse, one on blink.
This on blink
A MagicShine on high.
I feel safer at night than during the day.
Two other taillights, one on pulse, one on blink.
This on blink
A MagicShine on high.
I feel safer at night than during the day.
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#117
Senior Member
I suspect you are correct. I also suspect that a film/video does NOT capture the "alarm" and brightness of a flashing light due to various reasons including S/N ratio, FPS and other technical reasons I have no understanding of.
So the study has limitations.
A real world study would be much more useful, but as above I am not holding my breath on it.
So the study has limitations.
A real world study would be much more useful, but as above I am not holding my breath on it.
Flashing lights, high speed (to maximise closing time), staying 1m from the kerb so I’m not seen as someone they can squeeze past and also have a bit of wiggle room, radar, reflective bits of clothing and using roads on which drivers can’t get bored and start pissing about with their phones are my main tactics.
#118
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It's likewise hard to estimate distance to an on-coming front-flasher light when gaging when to turn left in traffic.
#119
don't try this at home.
That study The effect of rear bicycle light configurations on drivers’ perception of cyclists’ presence and proximity was done by video projections in a driving simulator:
In daytime bright sunlight, the sharp, fast flash of a taillight far down the road immediately catches my eye, even when I'm not looking for cyclists. This is way different than looking for cyclists on video. Drivers are distracted and don't pay careful attention during their typical driving situations.
I want that driver to see the flash a quarter mile ahead on a straight road, and start paying attention to their driving.
I want the driver coming around a bend to immediately think "cyclist just ahead!" from the flashing.
I ride with other cyclists that have 100, 150, 200 lumen taillights.The group sometimes gets very spread out. I instantly notice the flash when I can't even see that it's a bike on the road ahead, it's just too far away.
I aways run a two-per-second short flash tail light during the day. Flashing headlight too.
We recruited a sample of experienced drivers to take part in two laboratory-based experiments in which they sat in a simulated driving setup and viewed life-size real-world vi. deo simulations at daytime and at dusk.
In Experiment 1, we recorded the speed and accuracy with which the drivers detected the presence/absence of a cyclist.
In Experiment 2, the drivers’ task was to estimate the distance between their vehicle and a cyclist ahead in the road, and to rate their confidence in their decisions.
....
The participant responded by clicking the right paddle shifter on the steering wheel setup when they thought the cyclist was present and clicking the left paddle shifter when they thought the cyclist was absent. As soon as the participant responded, the trial ended, a 2-second gray screen appeared, and then the next trial began
~~~In Experiment 1, we recorded the speed and accuracy with which the drivers detected the presence/absence of a cyclist.
In Experiment 2, the drivers’ task was to estimate the distance between their vehicle and a cyclist ahead in the road, and to rate their confidence in their decisions.
....
The participant responded by clicking the right paddle shifter on the steering wheel setup when they thought the cyclist was present and clicking the left paddle shifter when they thought the cyclist was absent. As soon as the participant responded, the trial ended, a 2-second gray screen appeared, and then the next trial began
In daytime bright sunlight, the sharp, fast flash of a taillight far down the road immediately catches my eye, even when I'm not looking for cyclists. This is way different than looking for cyclists on video. Drivers are distracted and don't pay careful attention during their typical driving situations.
I want that driver to see the flash a quarter mile ahead on a straight road, and start paying attention to their driving.
I want the driver coming around a bend to immediately think "cyclist just ahead!" from the flashing.
I ride with other cyclists that have 100, 150, 200 lumen taillights.The group sometimes gets very spread out. I instantly notice the flash when I can't even see that it's a bike on the road ahead, it's just too far away.
I aways run a two-per-second short flash tail light during the day. Flashing headlight too.
Last edited by rm -rf; 01-14-24 at 06:03 PM.
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#120
That’s one thing I do like about our local rural roads. They are narrow, winding and full of dangerous farm traffic. Any driver not paying attention would soon be eliminated.
#121
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...which surprised me too.
#122
Junior Member
I think a solid light is just a point so it's hard to tell if it's moving closer to you. The flashing light will seem to appear in a different spot so you can estimate using 2 reference points.
#123
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Is the most unexpected bit to me as well. But with two lights, the combo strikes me as the better option in that case but we've also gone from two permutations to four. I'll back slowly away from the keyboard before pondering where the two are mounted....
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#124
don't try this at home.
A reflective leg band is really obvious at night--that up and down motion says "bicycle". I do like the "wah-wah" setting on my taillight at night when I'm solo. It's ramps the brightness up and down fairly fast, and is kind of unusual. I think it's more effective than a night time sharp blink pattern.
#125
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I really appreciate everyone's scientific approach to this topic!
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