When did 9/16" x20 become a standard pedal interface?
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Wessex UK
Posts: 114
Bikes: Vintage Raleigh and more modern Roberts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times
in
61 Posts
I have seen that thread on pre-WW2 English pedals and like many cycling standards was possibly started by Raleigh who dominated the cycle manufacturing world at the time, others might have more specific information.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,520
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1651 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 850 Times
in
553 Posts
It sounds like it was an "imperial" threading standard, do most likely quite old.....
The other standard, which is French (14 X 1.25, metric?) must be newer.
The other standard, which is French (14 X 1.25, metric?) must be newer.
Last edited by Chombi1; 02-06-24 at 10:39 AM.
Likes For Chombi1:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,176
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4547 Post(s)
Liked 6,501 Times
in
3,732 Posts
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 2,843
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1117 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,341 Times
in
792 Posts
There has always seemed to me an unusual kind of "standard" in pedals, unusual in that it is never mentioned, much less specified.
It's the distance between the front and rear plates - the same in almost every quill and rat-trap.
It's the distance between the front and rear plates - the same in almost every quill and rat-trap.
Likes For oneclick:
#6
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,544
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2753 Post(s)
Liked 3,416 Times
in
2,068 Posts
It's also not the only standard as any Ashtabula crank proves.
Likes For dedhed:
#7
On the road
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,196
Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 905 Times
in
344 Posts
Use of 9/16 by 20 goes back well before WWII. I've owned bikes from the 1920s and 30s that used it. They were all English-made bikes.
Good observation above - one-piece cranks ran 1/2 pedal shanks as standard. As a bit of additional trivial, the 1/2 inch shank even passed over to the relatively unusual American cottered cranks on bikes like the Schwinn New World and Superior prior to 1952.
Good observation above - one-piece cranks ran 1/2 pedal shanks as standard. As a bit of additional trivial, the 1/2 inch shank even passed over to the relatively unusual American cottered cranks on bikes like the Schwinn New World and Superior prior to 1952.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,554
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 999 Post(s)
Liked 1,676 Times
in
1,077 Posts
That's a good question. I have never known any other threading for pedals and that's even on my old French bikes. I do know that back in the day pedals were changed and exchanged often. In the old bike shops there were many bikes with slightly bent Cottered cranks and trashed pedals waiting for repair...
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
Likes For zandoval:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,470
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 802 Post(s)
Liked 760 Times
in
413 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
Likes For Piff:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,928
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2375 Post(s)
Liked 2,903 Times
in
1,582 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Likes For squirtdad:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,900
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1869 Post(s)
Liked 666 Times
in
508 Posts
Likes For Road Fan:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,549
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 3,097 Times
in
1,762 Posts
It hasn't changed for decades and decades, one of the few standards that has stood the test of time.
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
But...Is the pedal-crank interface the next standard on the chopping block? I wouldn't put it the industry to 'innovate' us out of being able to use keep using old components on newer and newer parts. I'm trying to think of a way they'd change it up in order to fit larger bearings into the system and increase stiffness in general. Would the spindle ever become integral to the crank?
#14
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,858
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times
in
1,258 Posts
BMX did 1/2" for awhile. You can still buy them on Amazon
Likes For clubman:
#16
blahblahblah chrome moly
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,040
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1206 Post(s)
Liked 2,649 Times
in
1,104 Posts
Looking at my pics of the Wright Brothers bike in the Smithsonian, it looks like 1/2" to my uncalibrated eye-crometer.
I forget, but I think the bike is late 1890s or maybe early 1900s. US-made of course, so it shines no light on what England would have been doing then.
I have heard it said that the Wrights first used or popularized the use of the left-hand thread for the left pedal. Maybe apochryphal?
I forget, but I think the bike is late 1890s or maybe early 1900s. US-made of course, so it shines no light on what England would have been doing then.
I have heard it said that the Wrights first used or popularized the use of the left-hand thread for the left pedal. Maybe apochryphal?
Last edited by bulgie; 02-06-24 at 06:59 PM.
Likes For bulgie:
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,089
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3032 Post(s)
Liked 3,917 Times
in
1,432 Posts
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,176
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4547 Post(s)
Liked 6,501 Times
in
3,732 Posts
Likes For merziac:
#20
Phyllo-buster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,858
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times
in
1,258 Posts
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 3,450
Bikes: 1984 Miyata 310, 1986 Schwinn Sierra, 2011 Jamis Quest, 1980 Peugeot TH8 Tandem, 1992 Performance Parabola, 1987 Ross Mt. Hood, 1988 Schwinn LeTour, 1988 Trek 400T, 1981 Fuji S12-S LTD, 197? FW Evans
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked 1,047 Times
in
537 Posts
It seems like the 9/16-20 pedal thread has been around about as long as the 1/4"-20 thread for camera tripods. You can mount a 100 year old camera on a modern tripod or a new camera on an old tripod. There were some bigger cameras that had a 3/8" mount, but they came with a bushing to adapt to the standard 1/4" screw.
#22
Newbie
Some delving into it with internet searching (which may or may not be apocryphal), it seems that it was standardized/published by the Cycle Engineers Institute (CEI) in Britain first in 1901 and in 1938 were revised as BSC (British Standards Institution as BS811:1950 and thereafter known as British Standard Cycle). By 1950 the standard of having 20 threads per inch with a 60º cut had been dropped but was still included in the index. 20 tpi is more common in Whitworth threads (BSW) but those are cut at 55º. I read that some early Campagnolo cranks were cut to 55º 9/16-20 threads and were considered an Italian thread.
#23
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,447 Times
in
1,958 Posts
1/2" x 20tpi has a long history on North American bikes. You can still find it on bikes with one-piece (aka "Ashtabula") cranks and some exercise bikes.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,176
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 269 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4547 Post(s)
Liked 6,501 Times
in
3,732 Posts
Some delving into it with internet searching (which may or may not be apocryphal), it seems that it was standardized/published by the Cycle Engineers Institute (CEI) in Britain first in 1901 and in 1938 were revised as BSC (British Standards Institution as BS811:1950 and thereafter known as British Standard Cycle). By 1950 the standard of having 20 threads per inch with a 60º cut had been dropped but was still included in the index. 20 tpi is more common in Whitworth threads (BSW) but those are cut at 55º. I read that some early Campagnolo cranks were cut to 55º 9/16-20 threads and were considered an Italian thread.
#25
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,678
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 1,876 Times
in
1,085 Posts
Some of the items on display in the shop:
*Yep, Henry Ford bought the Wright's cycle shop and had it moved from Dayton to Dearborn!