Can't seem to get integrated headset properly adjusted
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Can't seem to get integrated headset properly adjusted
Hey everyone -
Working on my 2019 Santa Cruz Tallboy with an IS41/52 integrated headset and after taking the fork off to do a service, I can't seem to get the headset properly tightened anymore. It is a Cane Creek 40 which came with the bike (bought it used). I did have to install a new star nut into the fork as it did not come with one, and I bought a cheapo pack of 5 of Amazon, so I guess that could be the issue?
Problem is that if I get the headset tight enough to not have play when I hold the brake and rock the bike back and forth, it feels and sounds grind-y when I turn the bars with the bike in the stand. On the ground, it feels ok, but it definitely doesn't feel smooth off the ground. If I have it loose enough to not feel crunchy, I get a considerable click clack coming from the headset when I rock the bike and I can feel it with my fingers around the headtube.
I installed the star nut using the Park Tool tool, so I would imagine it went in straight, although it does seem that the top bolt goes in slightly askew as I tighten it, eventually straightening out as it hits the top cap. I have tried this with the stem at the top of all the spacers (with still 3mm between the top of the steerer tube and the top of the stem) and with a 3mm spacer on top of the stem, and I keep getting the same thing.
Is it just a matter of getting new headset bearings? They seem to be relatively smooth when I have them off the bike.
Thanks!
Working on my 2019 Santa Cruz Tallboy with an IS41/52 integrated headset and after taking the fork off to do a service, I can't seem to get the headset properly tightened anymore. It is a Cane Creek 40 which came with the bike (bought it used). I did have to install a new star nut into the fork as it did not come with one, and I bought a cheapo pack of 5 of Amazon, so I guess that could be the issue?
Problem is that if I get the headset tight enough to not have play when I hold the brake and rock the bike back and forth, it feels and sounds grind-y when I turn the bars with the bike in the stand. On the ground, it feels ok, but it definitely doesn't feel smooth off the ground. If I have it loose enough to not feel crunchy, I get a considerable click clack coming from the headset when I rock the bike and I can feel it with my fingers around the headtube.
I installed the star nut using the Park Tool tool, so I would imagine it went in straight, although it does seem that the top bolt goes in slightly askew as I tighten it, eventually straightening out as it hits the top cap. I have tried this with the stem at the top of all the spacers (with still 3mm between the top of the steerer tube and the top of the stem) and with a 3mm spacer on top of the stem, and I keep getting the same thing.
Is it just a matter of getting new headset bearings? They seem to be relatively smooth when I have them off the bike.
Thanks!
#2
How did you have a fork without a starnut before you removed it for service?
Is it a shock fork or disc brakes? You can't do the rock test with either. Turn the wheel 90 degrees.
Is it a shock fork or disc brakes? You can't do the rock test with either. Turn the wheel 90 degrees.
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#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Fork is a Rockshox Pike Ultimate - disc brake. I've been doing it at 90 degrees and I'm getting getting clacking when I have it loose enough to spin freely and for the bars to return to center easily when I turn them in the stand. If I get it tight enough to not have play, I can hear a faint grinding from the headset as I turn the bars. The bars do turn freely when I have the bike on the ground or in the stand, but they definitely don't sound or feel as smooth as my other bikes do.
#4
Senior Member
If it was working fine before removing the fork, then something must be getting reassembled incorrectly. Maybe missing a spacer, or a part upside down or out of order.
To clarify, was the bike ridden with no star nut at some point?
To clarify, was the bike ridden with no star nut at some point?
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#5
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Don’t get hung up on the star nut, it only exists for one real reason.
The star nut is used with the top cap to hold the headset bearing preload, while you tighten the stem bolts.
Once the stem bolts are tight, the star nut only holds the top cap in place until next time you set preload.
Don’t do it, but to make the point, once the stem bolts are tight, you could remove the top cap and star nut and still ride the bike.
Barry
second thought….. you didn’t “tighten” the top cap did you???
Your not ment to “tighten” it, just barely enough to preload the bearings.
The star nut is used with the top cap to hold the headset bearing preload, while you tighten the stem bolts.
Once the stem bolts are tight, the star nut only holds the top cap in place until next time you set preload.
Don’t do it, but to make the point, once the stem bolts are tight, you could remove the top cap and star nut and still ride the bike.
Barry
second thought….. you didn’t “tighten” the top cap did you???
Your not ment to “tighten” it, just barely enough to preload the bearings.
Last edited by Barry2; 05-16-24 at 06:52 AM.
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#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Bike was never ridden with no star nut - I bought the frame used from one guy and a used fork from someone else, installed the star nut myself before riding it. Yeah it was definitely working fine before, but I have everything installed as it should according to the Cane Creek instructions. I have another bike with a CC40 that is working correctly, so I might try taking that apart just to triple check that I'm not missing anything.
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Don’t get hung up on the star nut, it only exists for one real reason.
The star nut is used with the top cap to hold the headset bearing preload, while you tighten the stem bolts.
Once the stem bolts are tight, the star nut only holds the top cap in place until next time you set preload.
Don’t do it, but to make the point, once the stem bolts are tight, you could remove the top cap and star nut and still ride the bike.
Barry
second thought….. you didn’t “tighten” the top cap did you???
Your not ment to “tighten” it, just barely enough to preload the bearings.
The star nut is used with the top cap to hold the headset bearing preload, while you tighten the stem bolts.
Once the stem bolts are tight, the star nut only holds the top cap in place until next time you set preload.
Don’t do it, but to make the point, once the stem bolts are tight, you could remove the top cap and star nut and still ride the bike.
Barry
second thought….. you didn’t “tighten” the top cap did you???
Your not ment to “tighten” it, just barely enough to preload the bearings.
#9
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So with your hand holding the fork/headtube you can feel the headset click ?
Barry
- - Our posts passed in the night
Barry
- - Our posts passed in the night
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I did just come across this - Is it possible that I forgot to put a shim back in there? Would that really have such a big impact?
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#11
Just Pedaling
Everything your describing sounds like a worn bearing. Too tight it crunches or grinds and too loose you got play. Check them again. They're sealed cartridge style, I'm assuming, you can pop the seals off carefully, clean and regrease and see if you still have the crunch/grind. Mic them while you have them out. Then you still have a bike to ride while you hunt down new bearings. Good luck,
#12
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A common cause of this is the top cap touching the headtube. If so, the remedy is a thin spacer between the top cap and centering cone.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#14
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#15
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I've seen frame to frame variation in that recess depth, and also in cone dimensions.
Keep in mind that any time you're dealing with cones, small differences can be multiplied and cause larger differences axially. It pays to have shims available to control the top cap to frame clearance.
#17
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If it's the same frame, and the same headset, but a different fork, that would indicate that the lower bearing isn't seating correctly on the fork crown or something was assembled incorrectly. The fork crown either has a bevel that resembles a crown race, or it requires a crown race. Then confirm that the lower bearing seats on the race or bevel flat and without movement. Then reassemble meticulously. Don't forget the split wedge washer that centers the top bearing on the steerer tube. It goes flat-side up and directly over the top bearing.