vicyclist

Yeah, you're not reading what I wrote. I never said I was trying to torque the top cap bolt to 9Nm. I was trying to torque the stem plug bolt to 9Nm...as specified on the plug. The top cap bolt is just snugged up.

Kontact

Where they greased?

vicyclist

The chainring bolts? Or the mating surfaces between rings and spider? The bolts came from Praxis with Loctite on them, so I've reinstalled them with Loctite. I use anti-seize on the mating surfaces.

Kontact

Even if they have the dried blue blob, I grease the threads.

vicyclist

I've always followed the old wisdom: Grease for things move and need to stay quiet, anti-seize for things that don't move and need to stay quiet, and Loctite to seal threads and hold them in place.

Garthr

I'm glad you got it sorted out ! I just went through the same thing, the seeming drive-by creaks when you least expect it ! Having had this issue before, yep, chainring bolts had slightly loosened. I had used some Boeshild on the threads but next time I take it apart it will be some grease or anti-seize on the outer parts too. More better, more better ! May not be a moving part, but it's sheer metal on metal in a high load area.

Torelli4

Deleted

Mtracer

If you can reproduce this noise on an indoor trainer. Maybe get someone else to listen while you ride, and vice versa. This would help you locate the source of the sound.

I found it truly maddening how hard it is to locate sounds on a bike while riding. In fact, it almost seems like wherever the sound seems to be coming from, you can be sure it isn't. Of course, there are the clues, like whether it is in sync with pedaling, or with wheel rotation. Coasting or pedaling, in or out of the saddle. But the OP seems to have covered all those bases.

Also, given how much attention you have given the BB, it would seem you should have solved the problem. Or at least stopped it temporarily. But since you've tried many things, and apparently none have even changed the sound, maybe time to start looking elsewhere.

My weirdest noise to track down was one that sync'ed to pedaling but was really due to a frame pump that was coming unscrewed internally. I guess the rocking of the bike while pedaling affected it.

Another thing I have often, is where the saddle rails enter the rear of the saddle. These points are meant to be fixed, but I often have them loosen up. The rail starts to move withing the plastic and makes noise. While applying lube makes it stop for a bit, it would come back. I took to cleaning the area really well, and then covering the whole area with JB Weld to glue the rail and keep it from moving at all. Crude, but effective.

Maybe the OP mentioned this somewhere, but you might try pulling out the seat post. Cleaning all that off and resetting it. I've had issues where apparently grit gets in there somewhere, and it starts to make creaking noise in sync with pedaling.

Kontact

I don't know how old that could be - bikes used only grease and oil until very recently.

Point being - your bolts wouldn't have made any noise in the first place had they been tightened with a lubricant to prevent the threads binding before they were at actual torque.

And anti-seize is an unnecessary mess for attaching aluminum to aluminum.

vicyclist

I've been cycling for almost fifty years, I've had plenty of bikes, and these Praxis chainrings are the first I've ever had creak on me, grease or not, when torqued to recommended spec and assembled (Loctite) per the manufacturer's instructions. Remember that Loctite, like grease, acts as a lubricant when threading parts together and is very good at filling voids in the threads. I've been using anti-seize anywhere I don't want galvanic corrosion to happen.

shelbyfv

Since OP didn't need help with this after all, too bad he didn't wait another day before posting.

Kontact

Most bolts with blue stuff on them is not loctite, it is that stuff that dries in the air and acts like a piece of chewing gum.

You can't get galvanic corrosion mounting aluminum rings on aluminum cranks. Galvanic corrosion on bikes happens almost exclusively where aluminum is bonded to screwed into Ti or carbon.

Do what you want, but I started working as a mechanic in 1990, and I'm trying to save you some mess and hassle. Grease is your best assembly tool.

vicyclist

Muchas gracias!

Duragrouch

Sincere thank you, I missed that.

Duragrouch

I agree with you on this. I prefer anti-seize for threads (over grease or oil) because a) it guards against galling better, especially stainless steel bolts, and b) the very fine metal particles in it, bring the coefficient of friction closer to dry, than grease, thus the threads hold better.

I'd use Loctite if needed, but it can make disassembly more difficult (even with the lower-strength "blue", so I try to make sure that I can heat the bolt or assembly if needed, that softens the Loctite. And by the way, the generic term for that is anaerboc thread-locking adhesive, meaning, it hardens/cures in the *absence* of air. Which is why parts can come from the factory with that blue stuff on the threads, which won't cure until the part is installed, the air is gone, it cures.

Kontact

The dry blue stuff that comes on things like thread bolts never cures - it is just there for traction.

When is the hold on properly installed and torqued bike parts ever an issue? Have you had greased stem bolts or seat binders come loose?

Duragrouch

Only twice; 1) A crank bolt on a tapered BB spindle, and the previous bolt and cartridge threads were galling dry. With grease, it was coming loose all the time, I had to check it before every ride. Anti-seize worked. Now if I recall correctly, that bolt was not that fine a thread pitch; I think finer would have been more resistant to loosening, but of course that thread size is a standard from way back, and I do like standards. Also, both bolts are right-hand and I think if I recall, this was always on the left crank arm, don't know if that matters as much as BB and pedal threads. 2) Stainless steel rack bolts galling in the steel braze-ons, and they did want to come loose when greased.

Interesting about the blue stuff. I'll research. I always thought it was thread adhesive based on the application and very similar blue color, but I never saw this mentioned anywhere, so I could be wrong. My new external BB bearings came with that stuff, but on a fine (BSA) thread, and if there is one part on a bike that is prone to seize up requiring massive torque to undo, it's a BB in a steel shell, so I put on anti-seize anyway as I always do with BBs, torqued to spec; Neither side has moved in over 2 years and 10k+ miles since installation. I hadn't realized until recently, the vulnerability of BBs to rain dripping down via the seat tube, and splashing up through the bottom vent/drain hole. Someone else mentioned this and I hadn't thought of it, though should have been obvious. So yeah, no dry threads there, especially on a 4130 steel frame.

Also, pedal spindles, as removing and replacing often for travel can lead to galling the aluminum crank threads, I think the anti-seize helps for longevity there. Yes, anti-seize is a mess, I wouldn't use it if I didn't think necessary.

Kontact

You can go on ebay and buy 60 year old aluminum cranks that show zero galling from decades steel pedal use. That is not an actual problem.

Your crank wasn't coming loose because the bolt was turning on its own. There is no force turning the bolt, unlike a bearing cup that is being turned by the ball bearings. Your crank arm probably had a poor fit to the spindle, causing it to wiggle enough to force the bolt loose. Tapered cranks, once seated, need very little bolt torque to be stable.


Stainless steel and titanium are about the only metal used in bikes that are known for galling. That is a good use of antiseize.


And the BB of a bike that has openings to the tubes should be vented. Otherwise the BB will drown in condensation from temperature changes, or the tubes will rust from standing water. The BB is the low point for the whole frame, so that's where the drain hole goes.

Duragrouch

A agree with all above.

Perhaps galling was the wrong term for what I saw at pedals spindles when I frequently traveled with a bike, as those are two very different hardness materials. But pulling pedals on and off a lot, I started to see more aluminum particles on the spindles than I thought best. Maybe I was being overcautious.

If I air-travel with my current bike, the rack bolts will get a lot of on-and-off, to fit in a checkable size parcel(s). Besides anti-seize, perhaps I should replace them periodically to maintain smooth thread finish, they're cheap. But I haven't had a problem since using anti-seize.

JohnDThompson 

or the cleats on your shoes. Or the saddle rails. &etc. Noises like that can be hard to track down. Sometimes you need to swap in different parts to isolate the source.

zandoval 

Just posting this here for another thought. One of the local fathers around here had a squeak/creak on his sons aluminum BMX bike. He chased it for a few weeks then gave up and decided to switch out the frame to be safe. Latter he called me over to make an observation. He started pinging the stripped frame with a plastic mallet. Sure enough there was a noticeable Thunk right at the down tube to bottom bracket joint. There was absolutely no indication of cracks, bad welds, or damage inside or out, yet the sound was absolutely abnormal. We then went to the new frame and every thing sounded normal. He DX'ed the frame without remorse just to be safe. But really the frame appeared fully sound, except for the sound...

vicyclist

Like I said above, I was able to eliminate things like saddle/post, pedals, rear wheel, etc. by completely removing them from the equation. Everything else was serviced or replaced (like BB bearings). That's how I ended up stumped. As also noted in my follow-up, it turned out to be the chainring bolds, which was originally my first suspect. I'd disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled to factor spec several times with no change. It was finally the mechanic at my bike shop who suggested over-torquing them and that finally fixed the problem.

noglider 

I realize the OP has solved his problem, but I can say:

I have a lot of these creaking problems. The causes have varied. Sometimes it's a matter of removing the pedals and regreasing them more generously than I think is necessary. Then I tighten them more than I think is necessary.

One creak turned out to be my saddle, and I was unable to solve it, so I moved the saddle on.

One turned out to be caused by a little bead at the end of my rain jacket's drawstring, pinging against my top tube!

MilhouseJ

Those are the worst! "I've got this noise, it only happens when it's raining, it isn't rhythmic, and it seems to be moving!"

pdlamb

At least this spring, there's another solution similar to "Car Talk" advice: turn up the radio.

Can't stand the creaks in your bike? Go ride where there's a cicada outbreak. There'll be so much racket you won't hear your bike making noises.