Dahon Eezz D3 failure
05-03-24, 05:39 PM
#26
Senior Member
Ford got caught in a different way, and finally fined; For many decades, the USA has had a "chicken tax"; in the 1960s, Europe didn't want cheap USA chicken, both because they didn't want to destroy their local producers, and USA chicken contained added hormones and arsenic to fatten them up, and in response the Johnson administration imposed a 25% tax on all European utility vehicles (and at the time, also potato starch, dextrin, and brandy); No more VW type II (bus) pickups, work vans, or others; Fast forward to the 00's, Ford made the Transit Connect in Turkey, so to avoid the tariff on empty work vans, Ford imported them with full seats and seatbelts (thus a passenger vehicle and not utility vehicle), and at the port in Maryland, pulled out the seats and belts in back and *shredded them all*, didn't even ship them back to Turkey, immense waste. But it was still way cheaper than the tariffs. Finally the USA government caught on, well over 15 years later, and they ruled against that, made it to the Supreme Court and Ford lost, has to pay back duties and $1.3 billion in penalties. Later generations of the vans were made in Spain, and now Poland. Mercedes-Benz still ships vans to the USA in knockdown and assembles them in South Carolina and avoids the tariff.
05-03-24, 06:04 PM
#27
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The carmakers have done it, going back 100 years to Ford worldwide. They ship them as "knockdown", assemble them locally. Both more efficient in shipping volume, and tariffs. "Kits" for many other things also avoid tariffs.
Ford got caught in a different way, and finally fined; For many decades, the USA has had a "chicken tax"; in the 1960s, Europe didn't want cheap USA chicken, both because they didn't want to destroy their local producers, and USA chicken contained added hormones and arsenic to fatten them up, and in response the Johnson administration imposed a 25% tax on all European utility vehicles (and at the time, also potato starch, dextrin, and brandy); No more VW type II (bus) pickups, work vans, or others; Fast forward to the 00's, Ford made the Transit Connect in Turkey, so to avoid the tariff on empty work vans, Ford imported them with full seats and seatbelts (thus a passenger vehicle and not utility vehicle), and at the port in Maryland, pulled out the seats and belts in back and *shredded them all*, didn't even ship them back to Turkey, immense waste. But it was still way cheaper than the tariffs. Finally the USA government caught on, well over 15 years later, and they ruled against that, made it to the Supreme Court and Ford lost, has to pay back duties and $1.3 billion in penalties. Later generations of the vans were made in Spain, and now Poland. Mercedes-Benz still ships vans to the USA in knockdown and assembles them in South Carolina and avoids the tariff.
Ford got caught in a different way, and finally fined; For many decades, the USA has had a "chicken tax"; in the 1960s, Europe didn't want cheap USA chicken, both because they didn't want to destroy their local producers, and USA chicken contained added hormones and arsenic to fatten them up, and in response the Johnson administration imposed a 25% tax on all European utility vehicles (and at the time, also potato starch, dextrin, and brandy); No more VW type II (bus) pickups, work vans, or others; Fast forward to the 00's, Ford made the Transit Connect in Turkey, so to avoid the tariff on empty work vans, Ford imported them with full seats and seatbelts (thus a passenger vehicle and not utility vehicle), and at the port in Maryland, pulled out the seats and belts in back and *shredded them all*, didn't even ship them back to Turkey, immense waste. But it was still way cheaper than the tariffs. Finally the USA government caught on, well over 15 years later, and they ruled against that, made it to the Supreme Court and Ford lost, has to pay back duties and $1.3 billion in penalties. Later generations of the vans were made in Spain, and now Poland. Mercedes-Benz still ships vans to the USA in knockdown and assembles them in South Carolina and avoids the tariff.
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05-03-24, 06:35 PM
#28
Senior Member
If you needed the above for bikes, it could be organized. But for bikes, you don't. People just need a work table and perhaps $50-100 in tools, which will of course pay for themselves in the initial build and over time.
This is just a guess, but I think your biggest cost would be an import agent, to handle paperwork. When I bought a crank on amazon and it came with the wrong chainrings, the seller in China said no worries, they'd send me new ones. Took a month, most of that time at their import agent in Nevada, as this was done outside of the amazon system. I think that location is big for that work, I've seen other companies routed through there as well.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-03-24 at 06:40 PM.
05-03-24, 06:57 PM
#29
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Which model of yours had the one-piece handlepost? I thought all those ones recalled were two-piece telescoping, HOWEVER, the T-top one-piece post (with the double-clamp swing handlebars) on the Speed TR (and I think some of the sportier Speed models) may also have been aluminum and from the same era, so might have had the same lower latch.
The one-piece stem on my early Speed is 100% steel with a much different lower latch (similar to the frame hinge, thus also greater hand force to unlatch, the later designs are much easier to work), and that steel post is holding up great; Fortunately I don't need to fold it often. However, it has a longer clamp around the steer tube than the later posts, so when I swapped my frame after it cracked, I had to keep the old fork in order to use the old post.
Aluminum frames, the key is the welds. After seeing cracks at the edges of prominent (convex) welds, but no cracks ever on my Cannondale which has wonderfully dressed welds, sanded to a very smooth blend with the tubes, I think that is critical to prevent stress risers there. Which is why I was excited to see the thread showing, what the OP thought might be a replacement for the current Launch, but was actually labeled Archer; Not only did it have a 2x(10/11?) drivetrain, but I could clearly see that all the welds were dressed very smooth. Tern has recovered by upping their game considerably, going for the higher end of the market and not trying to compete at the lower end; So Dahon might be trying for a similar strategy. We'll be lucky if that model makes it here, but watch out for the price. I'd like it if Bike Friday updated their design, at the very least with a folding (not removeable) handlepost (though mine can also be removed in a minute, just the clamp bolt and then the 10mm headset tension bolt), and also improving the design of the rear triangle, I think the current design is for minimal tooling cost when they started out, but it's not optimum in terms of weight. Given the same price and features, I'd go Bike Friday in a heartbeat.
Oh and also, Ron Damon has said he feels more comfortable on a bi-fold, with a steel frame, and based on him and others' experiences, I think a bi-fold when folded, the hinge is more vulnerable to break on aluminum versus steel.
The one-piece stem on my early Speed is 100% steel with a much different lower latch (similar to the frame hinge, thus also greater hand force to unlatch, the later designs are much easier to work), and that steel post is holding up great; Fortunately I don't need to fold it often. However, it has a longer clamp around the steer tube than the later posts, so when I swapped my frame after it cracked, I had to keep the old fork in order to use the old post.
Aluminum frames, the key is the welds. After seeing cracks at the edges of prominent (convex) welds, but no cracks ever on my Cannondale which has wonderfully dressed welds, sanded to a very smooth blend with the tubes, I think that is critical to prevent stress risers there. Which is why I was excited to see the thread showing, what the OP thought might be a replacement for the current Launch, but was actually labeled Archer; Not only did it have a 2x(10/11?) drivetrain, but I could clearly see that all the welds were dressed very smooth. Tern has recovered by upping their game considerably, going for the higher end of the market and not trying to compete at the lower end; So Dahon might be trying for a similar strategy. We'll be lucky if that model makes it here, but watch out for the price. I'd like it if Bike Friday updated their design, at the very least with a folding (not removeable) handlepost (though mine can also be removed in a minute, just the clamp bolt and then the 10mm headset tension bolt), and also improving the design of the rear triangle, I think the current design is for minimal tooling cost when they started out, but it's not optimum in terms of weight. Given the same price and features, I'd go Bike Friday in a heartbeat.
Oh and also, Ron Damon has said he feels more comfortable on a bi-fold, with a steel frame, and based on him and others' experiences, I think a bi-fold when folded, the hinge is more vulnerable to break on aluminum versus steel.
I'd personally love to do a trip like that. And I'd grab a Java Fit and bring it back with me. It's an amazing little folder IMO.
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05-03-24, 07:25 PM
#30
Senior Member
It was a Dahon Curve, which have a one piece handlepost. The good part is the handlebars are easy to remove, without needing to take off all the doodads. The bad part was no height customization for the height of the rider without swapping out for some sort of riser bar. It's a great little bike.
I'd personally love to do a trip like that. And I'd grab a Java Fit and bring it back with me. It's an amazing little folder IMO.
I'd personally love to do a trip like that. And I'd grab a Java Fit and bring it back with me. It's an amazing little folder IMO.
I'm lucky, I like a high bar, and my fixed post is the same height as top position on the telescoping post, and more rigid.
Yeah, a new Curve D9 might be an even better option than a Brompton clone, but I doubt as cheap. I'm still impressed by the brilliant forward-right-blade mount of the front disc caliper, to obviate the need for a thru-axle. I wish other makers with QR fronts would do the same.
Oh and a friend who has toured Vietnam and Thailand says rooms and street food are cheap, reducing the need to heavy tour like I normally would do, so just a Brompnot would be enough.
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05-03-24, 08:23 PM
#31
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Oh absolutely, much better in terms of liability, and the goverment not accusing you of trying to circumvent tariffs. Plus labor is expensive, that's where people get the savings. In light aircraft, people homebuild planes from kits, not only to save money, but if you build at least 51% of it, you are allowed to do your own service on the plane instead of an A&P mechanic. However it used to take *years* for people to complete kits, all while paying hanger rental, and many not finishing. In recent decades, some of the kit companies have put together facilities; They have tooling fabricated to save you a bunch of time, and "fast-build kits"; You show up for some weeks and build your plane quickly on their dedicated tooling, perhaps not fully fitted out interior or instruments but enough for 51% of the bare minimum (and aided by some pre-assemblies by the maker) to pass FAA inspection and test flight, fly it back home VFR, and then finish the rest.
If you needed the above for bikes, it could be organized. But for bikes, you don't. People just need a work table and perhaps $50-100 in tools, which will of course pay for themselves in the initial build and over time.
This is just a guess, but I think your biggest cost would be an import agent, to handle paperwork. When I bought a crank on amazon and it came with the wrong chainrings, the seller in China said no worries, they'd send me new ones. Took a month, most of that time at their import agent in Nevada, as this was done outside of the amazon system. I think that location is big for that work, I've seen other companies routed through there as well.
If you needed the above for bikes, it could be organized. But for bikes, you don't. People just need a work table and perhaps $50-100 in tools, which will of course pay for themselves in the initial build and over time.
This is just a guess, but I think your biggest cost would be an import agent, to handle paperwork. When I bought a crank on amazon and it came with the wrong chainrings, the seller in China said no worries, they'd send me new ones. Took a month, most of that time at their import agent in Nevada, as this was done outside of the amazon system. I think that location is big for that work, I've seen other companies routed through there as well.
Last edited by Ron Damon; 05-03-24 at 08:51 PM.
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05-03-24, 08:48 PM
#32
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However I do like your Pontius Pilate reference.
Didn't he invent some kind of exercise?
05-04-24, 02:08 AM
#33
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I sense you are a learned man, DG. Pontious Pilate got a bum rap for his passing the buck on one minor detention case of a rabble rouser from Nazareth. What only learned men will know is that PP earned his post of Roman governor of the province of Judea on the strength of his accomplishments and service to the Republic, devising the calisthenics training that made the Romans Legions a formidable force on the battlefield. The name of his exercise regime? Pilates, of course!
Last edited by Ron Damon; 05-04-24 at 08:06 AM.
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05-04-24, 12:42 PM
#34
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But it was a very fast answer.
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05-04-24, 02:18 PM
#35
Senior Member
That is a surprise, I've read that they are nomally fast and sharp. Perhaps a new employee, prompt, but less knowledgeable. I think I saw job posting for customer service rep among others, perhaps a year ago.
05-04-24, 02:52 PM
#36
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I sense you are a learned man, DG. Pontious Pilate got a bum rap for his passing the buck on one minor detention case of a rabble rouser from Nazareth. What only learned men will know is that PP earned his post of Roman governor of the province of Judea on the strength of his accomplishments and service to the Republic, devising the calisthenics training that made the Romans Legions a formidable force on the battlefield. The name of his exercise regime? Pilates, of course!
"I am the very model of a clever folding bicycle
A fraction of the space taken even a children's tricycle
Unfolded I am fleet as a steed at Royal Ascot
As fancy as a Moulton or as humble as a Brompnot
My wheels are small it's true but they spin like upright gyroscopes
My chainrings are large like that diamond named after Bob Hope
My folded size accommodates transport on an aeroplane
Child's play it is to be carried on a subway train
Confounding to thieves that I'm never chained outside
Out in the sun it's always on a long ride
As I said to the clerk when dropping off my recycles
I am the very model of a clever folding bicycle"
05-04-24, 05:06 PM
#37
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My BF tikit and the "dangerous to ride - handlepost snaps off" recall: they said they contacted every tikit owner they had info on. I bought my tikit from the factory, but they never contacted me. So I contacted them. They said then needed my serial number to make the right version of the part for me and it would be in one of four locations on the frame. Nope. So they admitted they built some tikits without serial numbers, but they thought they knew which part I'd need to repair the bike.
So, six months later, I contacted them about the status of the part to make my tikit safe to ride again. They replied, saying they were just a little family owned business and asking me if I wanted them to go out of business? They said their employees were busy making bikes they could sell to people and if and when their builders didn't have a revenue bike to make for someone, they'd make some repair parts.
After eight months, I got my repair part.
I mentioned this episode before here on this forum and received personal attacks from BF owners. Great group, really - so long as you validate their ownership decision by lavishing praise on the company.
But, hey, loved the 'perhaps a new employee" comment.
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05-04-24, 05:48 PM
#40
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My BF tikit and the "dangerous to ride - handlepost snaps off" recall: they said they contacted every tikit owner they had info on. I bought my tikit from the factory, but they never contacted me. So I contacted them. They said then needed my serial number to make the right version of the part for me and it would be in one of four locations on the frame. Nope. So they admitted they built some tikits without serial numbers, but they thought they knew which part I'd need to repair the bike.
So, six months later, I contacted them about the status of the part to make my tikit safe to ride again. They replied, saying they were just a little family owned business and asking me if I wanted them to go out of business? They said their employees were busy making bikes they could sell to people and if and when their builders didn't have a revenue bike to make for someone, they'd make some repair parts.
After eight months, I got my repair part.
I mentioned this episode before here on this forum and received personal attacks from BF owners. Great group, really - so long as you validate their ownership decision by lavishing praise on the company.
But, hey, loved the 'perhaps a new employee" comment.
In my looks on craigslist over the past couple years, I see a lot of used Bike Fridays in the general Eugene area, one which seemed like a one-off with no serial number or single digit IIRC (had cantilevered chainstays like an FnHon Gust), an OSATA (One Size Adjusts To All) which they had intended for bike schools, I don't know if sold retail, some good prices, so what you said may not be out of the realm of possibilities. Oh also though, I think I saw on their job page, one benefit is being able to build your own bike, so that may also be a reason.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 05-04-24 at 05:51 PM.
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