tcs

A Tout Terrain fitted with both a Pinion 12 and a Rohloff 14 was exhibited back on April 1, 2018.


3000% gear range. No word on whether this custom model was ever ordered by anyone.

veganbikes

That is cool but not really enough gearing a P.18 would be better. Maybe put it on a long tail cargo bike and add an Alfine 11 hub in the mix somehow.

Pratt

I just weighed my Tout Terrain Silk Road with the P-18, 42 lbs. that is with racks and a water bottle.
It has a chain with a tensioner. I took the chain off, cleaned it and to facilitate (?) reinstalling it removed the little chain guard around the chainwheel. It is secured with six, three mm bolts with washers and Nylon nuts. That means you can't spin them up with your fingers, and have to hold the little nuts with pliers.

Tourist in MSN

I am sure that violates the Rohloff chainring to sprocket ratios, could put warranty in jeopardy.

Tourist in MSN

That weight is comparable to my Thorn Nomad Mk II with Rohloff. No surprise, both the Tout Terrain and the Nomad Mk II are heavy duty expedition bikes.

One other person on this forum mentioned that he had a Pinion with a chain, not belt, that surprised me. And now I learn that there is a second chain drive Pinion owner on this forum.

djb

42lbs is quite hefty, and while for some heavy trips this makes sense for the trade off of reliability, convenience, it's still quite a lot more than my troll , and certainly would be a factor in bike packing

Tourist in MSN

Absolutely, but when you are going into remote areas with a massive amount of food and you want something totally reliable that does not handle like a wet noodle, that is a price to pay.

When I think of bikepacking, I think of being able to resupply every few days, maybe up to four days between resupply at most with that limited luggage volume.

There always will be the ultra light people that do a two or three day ride on single track where they live almost exclusively on food that takes almost no prep, use bivy sacks, etc. That might have been the norm for bikepackers a decade ago, but I think that is a minority now. And there are a few that use that style for long distance road touring too.

But bikepacking photos suggest that racks are becoming much more common, rack use for bikepacking gear was almost unheard of a decade ago.

Tourist in MSN

One other point. More and more people are trying to set up an everything bike, a bike with narrower 700c wheels for pavement and wider 650b wheels for off road where wider tires may be used. That started to become a thing with disc brakes. It was generally impractical to do that with rim brakes.

A Rohloff does not work well for that unless you want to buy a couple expensive hubs, but a Pinion could if the frame allowed both wheel sizes for diameter and width since the second hub is more affordable.

I prefer more bikes instead of more wheels for one bike, but different people have different priorities.

Since you are an ultra light kind of bike touring person, I think that the weight difference will be one of the most important factors for you. You are the only person I know that will shut off the stove before the water reaches a boil to save a few grams of fuel.

djb

All really good points T.
Being rather heavily loaded for sure, and the different rims thing is pretty much ruled out.
I wonder how heavy other P18 bikes are? There's that fellow here who has one, maybe a co-motion.
Pedaling walrus, that's his name.

I think a bit more weight than a regular typical bike packing bike that can take wide tires would be okay, but then it does come down to how competitive one is and ones priorities.

The belt thing for regular maintenance is the main attraction to me, but would I want a bike that is ten pounds heavier if I'm being really careful about load weight, probably not.
Last summer in Scotland I rode and talked with a young guy whose dad had bought himself a retirement present, a pinion and belt bike, don't know which one.

L134 

Steps would drive me crazy.

djb

11% steps is quite similar to a lot of typical touring cassettes, ish

L134 

But, the cassette is only 1/3 the story.

gauvins

But that's not to reduce weight -- it is to extend the canister's useful life. Fewer trips to the store and less waste. I also leave the stove permanently screwed to the canister. Avoiding in/out pffchttt saves perhaps 0.5 g/day, meaning 1-2 more days of autonomy for a 100g canister. (too much free time on my hands, I suppose

frogshawn

This the exact route I took. 650B for wide tires off road and 700c narrower for the road.

frogshawn

I haven’t weighed my Pinion bike. I don’t notice it being heavier than my Atlantis. One thing to keep in mind is the weight of the Pinion is low and centered in the frame vice the Rohloff’s weight being in the rear wheel.

Rick

frogshawn: The Rohloff is the only internally geared setup that is Tandem rated. It is aproxametly 1 kilo lighter than the Pinion. The weight thing has no effect on me riding my bicycle. This is a heavy rear wheel with the Rohloff. I notice it when repairing a flat tire. The added friction for internal geared setups is over emphasized. Most of the negative comments about the Rohloff and Pinion are talking heads that like to hear there own voice and they just repeat the same propaganda that the previous reviewer said.

tcs

The video's April 1 date might be a clue.

Tourist in MSN

Got it. I assumed it was to save the weight, only a 100 gram canister is needed instead of a 220 gram at the start of a trip.

I am packing for my next trip. Usually I bring liquid fuel stove for trips where I do not need to fly, but it will be a long enough trip that I will need to buy more fuel, and I do not want to buy a gallon of coleman fuel along the way. Thus, I will be using 220 gram canisters. With a single 100 gram canister as a backup in case I run low. Starting the trip with a 100 and a 220 gram canister, buy more as I go.

Tourist in MSN

My rear wheel on my Rohloff bike is even heavier, Andra 30 CSS rims. Their catalog listing for that rim is 786 grams (non-CSS version). And 36 spokes.



And changing a flat. This was the only time I ever tried one of those thick wall thorn resistant very heavy innertubes. Defective tube, lasted only a couple days.

Rick

Tourist in MSN I have the Velocity 26" Psycho rims and Schwalbe Pickup tires on my bicycle. I believe my rim weight is close to yours. The rear wheel weighs 10.4 pounds. If I ever need a new rim I have some Ryde Andra 40s in the garage.

Tourist in MSN

I would like narrower wider rims, but the Andra 30 I have are CSS, lasts forever. No longer available.

CORRECTION:

I wanted wider, not narrower.

frogshawn

I agree the friction is way over emphasized. I believe when they compare a IG to a derailleur it is with a very clean derailleur. My derailleurs are never very clean. Bottom line I absolutely love the Pinion.

Duragrouch

I had to look up CSS, never heard of it. Looks interesting, but they don't mention the material except to say a "long chain polymer". My guess would be UHMWPE, given it's now ubiquitous use in everything from high-performance sailboat running and standing rigging, to logging and winch lines, to commercial fishing lines and nets. As strong and stiff as Kevlar but little or no UV vulnerability. If you actually know what CSS is, do tell, I'd be interested. Thanks.

Duragrouch

I'm a liquid multifuel stove enthusiast from way back, although white gas has tripled in cost in the past 10 years to $15 a gallon, even more in smaller quantities, and I hate burning gasoline or kerosene or diesel, it dirties the valve. Plus TSA will confiscate the stove and empty fuel bottle if not new-in-package, even bone dry.

Thus, even I can't deny the tiny size and weight of modern canister stoves. I just hate the disposability of the cartridges; A year ago I looked into refilling them with propane (using a scale, because no Overfill Protection Device (OPD)), but still a big NO, propane has 3X the vapor pressure of butane, that's why the (thin wall) cartridges are a mix and propane bottles are a lot thicker. And I wouldn't try to mix my own. But since the pandemic, isobutane cartridges cost a bunch. However, spraypaint-can-size butane cartridges (for one burner stoves often seen in asian markets) are $2 at my local asian food store, and that is very cost/heat competitive to propane, and even white gas. All I need to get is a valve adaptor between that form-factor valve and the stove, commonly available on amazon, and a stand to stabilize the tall cartridge and stove. Now, 100% butane works poor in really cold weather, but for my bike trips, it would be fine, and those butane cartridges are probably easier to buy on the road versus the camping stove ones; Maybe. Sometimes they are sold in packs of 6, 8, or 10; My local store will sell singles for $2.

Rick

If you want to carry the extra weight there are refillable 1 gallon propane canisters. Propane will work on most if not all canister stoves. I use a remote canister stove that has a heat tube. The heat tube allows for colder weather use and the gas line coming off of the stove allows The use of a wind screen.